Here is my poorly worded, addled stab at it.
Science is the study of the physiological phemomia. Even psychology is within the measurable relm. it deals with our reaction to stimuli and what synaps are associated with X Y or Z. it deals with how we may change our reactiond based upon a measurable and identifiable input.
Spirituality including religion, deals with the immeasurable.
in terms of religion, there is the story:
A man approached a leader/mentor within a particular school of Buddhism.
He stated that he had been studying and observing this school for 20 years.
He knew it's history and it's positive effects, philosophy, etc.
He knew all about it, but was at a loss as to how or what actually made it work.
To this, the leader/mentor replied that, with that study, there was one element missing.
The man was encouraged to apply all that knowledge by doing the practice.
Upon doing so, the man quickly, and with great appreciation, understood.
The scientific study of the theory, and other aspects, from a third person perspective, gave the man a theoretical undertanding of the philosophy and mechanics of the practice. But only when he actually crossed the line to open the spiritual application, actions, did he truely undertand. We can study all there is about riding a bicycle. But, if we never actually ride a bike, we will never know the actuality of riding a bike.
All this, of course means Science is the observation, study and measurement of ideas and things. Engineering is manifesting these concepts, theories, in a material form.
Spirituality is going into the immeasurable. The study of life itself, rather than just the physical, observable, measurable manifestations of life.
Peace to all
@Lionduck said:
Spirituality is going into the immeasurable.
That I think is closer to the truth. Jiddu Krishnamurti once said, “truth is a pathless land” and he indicated that in a spiritual search one could not follow any man or doctrine. But the conditioning which we pick up from toys, clothes, parents, teachers, schools, the government, they all limit the paths we walk.
In order to walk and pursue the truth freely, we have to perceive and let go of the conditionings. It’s a slow process. Science is a good tool for examining the physical world, and it even says some things about spirituality and the origins of life. But once you start looking at the self, at consciousness, at the immaterial realms, it is a serious constraint.
The thing is, many of the things you encounter in an Ayahuasca experience are not physical, but our spirit is profoundly affected by them. Things like magical chants, song, myths and legends all acquire a kind of meaning that renders them significant as the mind expands.
Jeroen
@IdleChater said:
@Shoshin1 said:
You may find this interesting...perhaps even helpful...
The 10% advantage
I guess what he is saying is....when setting goals, it's important not to bite off more than you can chewWow! I would not have expected this group to have a post promoting what the Sakyong taught. Disgraced teachers usually don't very good treatment, around here, nor should they.
That said, he did have some interesting things to say in his book, Turning the Mind Into An Ally. He advised beginners to meditate in easily managed times - 5, 10, and ideally, 20 minutes sessions. This is plain, old Shamatha meditation; simple resting, calm, abiding meditation. Beginner meditation, in the Shambhala tradition, is taught with that in mind.
@IdleChater It's a case of not throwing the baby out with the bath water
If you think about it. over the years 'famous' Dharma teachers have given Dharma talks which have been of great benefit to many people, then later they may fall from grace...Does this mean those beneficial teachings should be ignored ?
No doubt he won't be the last well known Dharma teacher to be discredited
Don't mistake the finger pointing to the moon for the moon
Shoshin1
You may find this interesting...perhaps even helpful...
The 10% advantage
I guess what he is saying is....when setting goals, it's important not to bite off more than you can chew
Shoshin1
Mainly I'm saying, if the voices start telling you to do harmful things for spiritual reasons, like try to fly or harm people who are possessed or something. Think twice, because they can be persuasive, especially if your used to believing them.
person
@Bunks said:
@Kotishka said:
I agree haha. I have this tendency of overdoing and burning out 😵 Let's see how the challenge goes!Yes! Me too. Trying to do too much then beating myself up when I inevitably fail.
I’ve tried to keep it simple this year 🙏
Well done @Kotishka - I look forward to your updates
Me too
I suggest we aim to adopt an attitude of "these are the things we are working on", rather than "these are the things which we need to do perfectly immediately". Seems to me that if we are improving in wholesome areas we wish to improve in - all is well from the start.
Firstly one must ask what is enlightenment?
Otherwise one would be doing this ... just another goal.
AN 4.118 Saṁvejanīyasutta: Inspiring
“Mendicants, a faithful gentleman should go to see these four inspiring places. What four?
Thinking: ‘Here the Realized One was born!’—that is an inspiring place.
Thinking: ‘Here the Realized One became awakened as a supreme fully awakened Buddha!’—that is an inspiring place.
Thinking: ‘Here the Realized One rolled forth the supreme Wheel of Dhamma!’—that is an inspiring place.
Thinking: ‘Here the Realized One became fully extinguished in the element of extinguishment, with nothing left over!’—that is an inspiring place.
These are the four inspiring places that a faithful gentleman should go to see.”
Bunks
Betraying my Zen-flavored inclinations....
Trying to think one's way to enlightenment is like looking for the right wild fox to care for a henhouse.
The search for a mind-controlled enlightenment is most commonly limited by an underlying ego assumption that it's actually something that can be possessed.
how
>>> can we know that something is eternal?
Yes.
If, as according to Kagyu teaching, it is real. To be real, it must be unique, unconditioned, and unchanging.
Then we have to find it. Far easier said, than done. A lifetime of practice may not reveal such a thing, but it might.