Best Of

@Jeroen said:
So let me ask, do you think that the world is functioning well?

We do incentivize many of the wrong behaviors. We learn from our leaders, the parents, the ones in charge. That isn't new, though more amplified and fragmented with modern technology and human expansion leading to the weird conglomerate of people and families and communities and such we struggle to define as a tribe today.

We're still primitive animals in many ways who have had some extraordinary progress in our tool capabilities. Just cuz we have refrigerators and missiles and internet doesn't mean our brains have evolved as fast. Natural evolution takes a heck of a long time compared to technological evolution. We're outpacing what we are fully capable of understanding as a whole society and leaving a lot of people in the dust as a result.

Maybe this is a form of internal winning, a striving in contrast to the more agreeable type mentioned by @lionduck. A blind and self-serving striving or desire to be first, to find the best, solve the problem, push the limits no matter the cost. Progress for the sake of more progress with no consideration for returning to help others. And if the whole group is involved as a unit, maybe that turns out ok. It's what took us from being hunter-gatherers subject to predation and the elements and gave us a more comfortable lifestyle in many ways. But clearly everyone isn't coming along in this new modern society and many are left behind while those advancements are packaged as unaffordable products back to the same people who used to be considered the tribe.

I agree it takes all kinds for a society to function, including those that strive. But if someone's sole purpose is to strive and on the managing end of that striving is a businessman who's sole purpose is to make money, and protecting those businessmen and their profits along with the products of the striving are the lawmakers and enforcers who have equally greedy intentions, then the striving never reaches the masses in the way it was meant to when we all worked together toward the goal.

Not sure what the solution is but likely has to do with a shift in mentality from those who draw the lines and make the rules. A softening of the fist, extending of the open hand, forgiveness and compassion to a greater extent than we see today. We either get there or we don't, which is not really up to me as an individual. What is up to me as an individual is how I conduct myself in my daily affairs. Doing my best to not fall victim to the same behaviors of what I was raised on and see applauded all around. I think that's all we can do. Some of us find ourselves in positions for that to have substantial impact, some of us just make the checker at the grocery store smile one more time than they would have otherwise. I think it all helps and think it's also enough just that way.

Kind of rambly and scatterbrained, sorry. Here's a funny Adventure Time clip which this topic reminded me of.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=l8PuFxU3UZM

@Jeroen said:
It is a mystery to me why other people don’t take up Buddhism with enthusiasm

After diving in, I couldn't agree more. Sad to say whenever I talk about what I'm learning or practicing to friends and family it's met largely with disinterest followed by a discussion change to how much stress they have and inability to rid themselves of it.

@Jeroen said:
So why the desire to win as a baseline behaviour in humans?

To win ....Perhaps a primeval survival instinct ....and which has now just turned into the dopamine serotonin reward one gives oneself after achieving a successful outcome ...

Hmm. Let me put it another way. I don’t really care about society, society will take care of itself and the world needs another Buddha more than someone wanting to get in a fistfight. I care about my relationship with the holy life, and that asks of me that I resolve my relationship with a number of deep issues before I can call my search complete. Winning is one of those, survival at any cost is another.

Is it my place to do battle with Deva’s or Asura’s? It seems to me that the path of a modern buddhist is one of peace, following in the footsteps of Thich Nhat Hanh and Ajahn Chah. I’m beginning to realise that winning, being victorious, can be a consuming desire that causes one to cling to the wrong things and that it is something to be let go of, for me.

The desire to be victorious, to win, causes one to enter conflict situations with something other than a heart bearing peace. Ruthlessness, the desire to strike with fists and clubs, to force submission, is not the path of the buddha. If you feel these things, or can imagine yourself in a situation where they come to the fore like me, you need to meditate on why. It is not suitable for one who aspires to learn at the feet of the Buddha, and it is something one needs to deal with before one’s heart is pure.

I put these questions — often in a general form — on NewBuddhist as a kind of sounding board to see what other people say, but perhaps I should make clear that they are deeply relevant to my practice.

Of course, we have the concept of winning against another person or group.
But there is another type of winning.
It arises not from competition with others or an outside entity or force.
It is the victory, the winning within our own lives, each of us.
There lies the true competition, the true victory.
Yes, we are biologically primed to compete. But when we turn that inward, we achieve a quantum leap forward. We become the true owners of our happiness, of our lives. Thus we are able to extend that victorious life to aid others. Of course, as we aid others, we are aiding ourselves.
That is true victory.

Peace to all

Not sure if I can offer that much insight. I liked sport but wasn't terribly competitive. I do like games and puzzles though. And going off what I've heard others talk about their motives in interviews and such.

I think there are two general sorts of motivations. One is for personal or group excellence and mastery, the other for dominance over others. The former brings people up the latter tears them down. Competition forces people to improve and do the best they can, something we all ultimately benefit from in an interconnected world.

A good movie recently came out on Netflix (at least here in the US) called Molly's Game that, I think, highlights the differences well. On the one hand you have Molly, who wants to build something great for herself, on the other you have player X (Toby McGuire IRL) who is explicitly motivated by the desire to humiliate and ruin others.

Take as another example the way many insular martial arts are being exposed as completely ineffective in mixed martial arts settings. For a long time they've only interacted with themselves, they haven't really been tested. Not going through the testing and refining process of competition the wheat hasn't been separated from the chaff.

At some level pretty much all of the social and moral gains of society have come about as a result of people who wanted to win. Suffragettes wanted to win the right to vote, civil rights advocates wanted to win equality under the law for black people. Thank goodness for people wanting to win, or we'd all still be living as serfs under the dictates of god-kings. There will probably always be takers in the world and if there aren't people of good will willing to push back and win the takers get to decide everything.

The sort of opposite is collaboration, working together for a common goal. Though often we collaborate to compete at a group level.

Spiritual practice teaches us equanimity. Which is great for many aspects of our own individual well being and allowing for greater social harmony. As an absolute I'm not sure how well it works in practice when not everyone has to play by those rules.

At the end of the day, people are diverse and that is a strength. Some people are better suited for collaboration and harmonizing, some are better at competition and success.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is the OP contextualizes competitiveness only in a negative light. I think there are lots of positive aspects to it as well, and would advocate for not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.