Best Of

@marcitko said:
For me, ultimately, the spiritual life is attempting and answering the who-am-I question by methods of introspection.

You might be interested, Eckhart Tolle said this about the “Who am I?” question recently…

“When you ask yourself, who am I, the important thing is to realize that you won't be able to answer that question. So anything the mind comes up with is wrong, no matter what you say. And even if you say, ah, I've got it: I'm consciousness! Wrong, because it's a concept. Who you are is not believing in a concept. It's just a concept. So who am I? This was recommended by Ramana Maharshi and other spiritual sages as a profound meditation. Who am I? That question, you can ask it yourself with eyes open or eyes closed and then wait for the answer, which is not going to come as an actual answer that you could identify. It's not going to come as a thought or a word or anything you can talk about or think. The answer is the space after the question 'who am I?'.”

@how said:
For me, a spiritual life just describes the transition of selfishness towards selflessness.

Certainly at a young age it seems to be true, and often later in life one becomes more giving automatically when material things become less important.

It reminds me of something that Osho used to say, that he was “full like a raincloud, showering his blessings on us all.” The raincloud gives naturally, it is in its nature. That too is a spiritual way of being.

Selfishness applies just as much to form as it does to sensation, thought, activity and consciousness.....just like selflessness can.
While a spiritual journey often begins with an addressing of those attachments that seem coarser and material in nature, they are only the preparatory steps towards addressing the subtler expressions of ignorance which brooks no limitation of age.

For me, a spiritual life is the way of self-emptying love.

I’ve played a bit of poker online and socially with friends in some small home tournaments, I never did it seriously though, I didn’t spend the time on it learning to get good at the game although I did win a few of the tournaments among friends. So I’m sort of familiar with different aspects of playing.

I quite enjoyed it, the mechanical aspects of putting together a winning hand, a bit of excitement, the idea of reading people and tricking others, the idea of victory. The playing for money part never really grabbed me as particularly captivating, so I never really considered it gambling.

For me it was an innocent bit of fun, a pleasant and social game but it didn’t excite or captivate me in the way that a really good role-playing game did. What I didn’t like so much is that it sets you up in conflict against the other players, your winning means they have to lose. So in terms of dealing with social anxiety it does put you in a place where you have “enemies” and where the world is an unfriendly place, which is not ideal or a real representation of the world.

Its a good question.

On the one hand I do think that the medicine needs to reflect what the patient requires. So there isn't one path or technique that should be expected to fit for all people.

On the other hand, there is a difference between engaging in a "spiritual" life, what ever that does mean and living a destructive sort of life. So there is some sort of common "one way" that does link differing paths.

So the question is, what is that one broad way? Just trying to think of that now I'd say it has an inward looking quality to it. Its first focused on improving those inner qualities, that could be in service of the outer, but the practice is inward. There is some quality of moving from one state to a nebulously defined better state. An inwardly focused move from what causes us psycho-spiritual suffering to what causes psycho-spiritual flourishing? I think there is probably some level of mystery involved even for the most secular and skeptical. Sam Harris, for example, is in search of some unanswered question about what the spiritual experience is and means for people. What can it offer us? Probably some other things too that aren't occurring.

For my own sense of spirituality, I want to engage in practices and ways of thinking that help me become wiser and kinder so I can have a positive influence on the world around me. I want to have left the world better for having been in it. I don't have any grand ambition to be maximally wonderful, if I can be more additive to my world than subtractive, with some sense of trying to be better (not perfect) everyday, then I'm satisfied.

For me, a spiritual life just describes the transition of selfishness towards selflessness.

@Jeroen said:
I came across this quote by Ram Dass this morning, and it set me to thinking…

“The spiritual journey is individual, highly personal. It can't be organized or regulated. It isn't true that everyone should follow one path. Listen to your own truth.”
― Ram Dass

It seems true to me that the path is highly personal. Certainly it has meant for me that something like a Buddhist monk’s life hasn’t been explored by me. There was a point where I considered it, about eight years ago, but then I read Stephen Batchelor’s Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist and found that he had saved me from many years of living in that way.

So if I were to further consider the Ram Dass quote, and “listen to my own truth”, what has dedicating my time to spirituality meant to me and what has it brought me? And how to continue from here?

First, the methods I have followed to date:

• Reading spiritual literature: a lot of time, many realisations, a wide array of teachers, but no breakthroughs
• Written reflections on self and methods: mostly on forums, quite a lot of time, sharing, bringing out what was within, gaining clarity
• Meditations: irregularly, short, but with easy progress, still limited
• Courses: relatively rarely, at the Gelugpa temple, an opportunity to ask questions
• Quotes: reading many from recognised authors as a shortcut for reading books

For me, it has resulted in just a few guidelines which I try to apply constantly…

• Not identifying with thoughts, not letting thoughts set the tone, living a simple life
• Being natural and relaxed, being aware that misery is my creation but bliss is my nature
• Not forcing anything inside, but just being mindfully aware

I have gone through a purification of the body and the spirit, but whether this has resulted in me being better off is something I’m not certain of. I have noticed that a long standing tingle in my body has vanished over the last few days. This has meant a kind of sea change in what I perceive of my body… I had always associated that tingle with a sort of energy. Not sure what this means, but it’s different.

U.G. says that there is no breakthrough which one can work towards, that it all happens automatically. So in that way, a spiritual journey doesn’t necessarily mean ‘doing’ things like retreats or courses, it may mean that ‘doing’ as such is not necessary. Still I like to share insights, helping inspire people is a way of improving the world.

The reading and writing of spiritual literature sets my mind to work in a certain way, perhaps it is so that that state of mind is something that I associate with spirituality.

What does “living a spiritual life” mean to you?

I'm not sure that I lead a "spiritual life". If I do, it certainly isn't what you or Ram Das tell.

I just live, to the best of my ability, and the fruition of my karma. Spirituality doesn't enter into it.

I came across this quote by Ram Dass this morning, and it set me to thinking…

“The spiritual journey is individual, highly personal. It can't be organized or regulated. It isn't true that everyone should follow one path. Listen to your own truth.”
― Ram Dass

It seems true to me that the path is highly personal. Certainly it has meant for me that something like a Buddhist monk’s life hasn’t been explored by me. There was a point where I considered it, about eight years ago, but then I read Stephen Batchelor’s Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist and found that he had saved me from many years of living in that way.

So if I were to further consider the Ram Dass quote, and “listen to my own truth”, what has dedicating my time to spirituality meant to me and what has it brought me? And how to continue from here?

First, the methods I have followed to date:

• Reading spiritual literature: a lot of time, many realisations, a wide array of teachers, but no breakthroughs
• Written reflections on self and methods: mostly on forums, quite a lot of time, sharing, bringing out what was within, gaining clarity
• Meditations: irregularly, short, but with easy progress, still limited
• Courses: relatively rarely, at the Gelugpa temple, an opportunity to ask questions
• Quotes: reading many from recognised authors as a shortcut for reading books

For me, it has resulted in just a few guidelines which I try to apply constantly…

• Not identifying with thoughts, not letting thoughts set the tone, living a simple life
• Being natural and relaxed, being aware that misery is my creation but bliss is my nature
• Not forcing anything inside, but just being mindfully aware

I have gone through a purification of the body and the spirit, but whether this has resulted in me being better off is something I’m not certain of. I have noticed that a long standing tingle in my body has vanished over the last few days. This has meant a kind of sea change in what I perceive of my body… I had always associated that tingle with a sort of energy. Not sure what this means, but it’s different.

U.G. says that there is no breakthrough which one can work towards, that it all happens automatically. So in that way, a spiritual journey doesn’t necessarily mean ‘doing’ things like retreats or courses, it may mean that ‘doing’ as such is not necessary. Still I like to share insights, helping inspire people is a way of improving the world.

The reading and writing of spiritual literature sets my mind to work in a certain way, perhaps it is so that that state of mind is something that I associate with spirituality.

What does “living a spiritual life” mean to you?

I used to play free online poker back when it really boomed in popularity. I think the thing that it taught me the most was how to think probabilistically and long term. What I didn't like about it was the way I'd start enjoying beating or tricking other people.

As far as an income. I'm self employed and there is a feast or famine aspect to it, but I live below my means and I feel that even if things slow down there will be enough work to get by, there isn't the fear of losing my job and having no income.

Regarding the social anxiety. It is an issue when you're isolated, it reinforces the anxiety, it tells the brain that it is indeed dangerous to interact with people and isolation equals safety. The only real way to get better is through at first small, but increasing social engagement.

*** In this post I will be talking about poker. I do not recommend that anyone play poker, especially from a Buddhist perspective. Feel free to not read this post, especially if you have addiction problems in general or gambling problems in particular.

I've been occasionally following along with this thread but did not think I had anything to contribute since I did not believe I play games, except on occasion. However, I just realized I made a game into a livelihood, talking about a blind-spot! I also wrote in my journal thread that I would open the topic of my poker-playing at some point, so here goes.

For the last a bit over 5 years I've been playing online poker and learning about good strategies for winning players, which I've been. I started as an "amateur" playing for peanut-stakes and as my knowledge increased moved up in stakes to where these days I can support myself fully by playing a few hours a day and watching training videos for in average another hour. My main source of income for the last 2.5 years has been poker (with a stint with working too).

I've always been profitable so there is no element of losing money. I only paid in 50$ and grew my bankroll from winnings. At least, that's something good. I am not rich, currently I can barely sustain myself, but I can. To give you some idea: when I was very focused on poker about 2 years ago and the games were good because of Covid, I made around 3 average salaries, while now when it's less in focus, and the games are tougher, I make around an average salary. Keep in mind that these are averages, with poker you do not "get a paycheck".

For those less knowledgeable about poker, a few points I believe are important:

• Short-term (hours, even days or sometimes weeks), poker has a big element of luck and a big element of skill. Long-term (weeks, months, years...) the luck evens out and it's all skill.
• Poker is a computer-solved game and we know what good strategies are. Hence, poker can be learned as any other skill. These days, the best players are "geeks" who spend hours every day learning computer-strategies and trying to emulate them, not Texas-cowboys with big hats and guns on the table. Think chess, not roulette.
• While some develop a gambling problem, many do not, and from what I can gather from youtube etc. the top players treat it as any other mental-sport and are not degenerate gamblers. There is some scientific proof for this view as well.
• Playing on online-sites is safe, secure, etc.

The pros of what poker has given me:

• after my mental health breakdown, clear confirmation that my brain/mind is good. I always considered myself as a strong intellectual, so it was nice that I could excel in an intellectual discipline. Whether you are good or bad at poker is very clear in the long-run, just watch your results.
• for the first time in my life, a gut-feeling certainty that I can support myself. Working jobs, I was always concerned that with my sketchy mental-health my job position was very insecure (mostly that I would break-down again and quit).
• Excitement, something to do, something rational to learn, money (with the added excitement that with effort to learn I could earn much more than in a normal job according to my degree)

The negatives:

• Being constantly socially criticized and only rarely praised.
• Sometimes, having to hide that I play poker.
• Socially, being "out of place", different to others, not making social connections based on shared interest/work.
• It's a loners lifestyle, since I play online.
• I am very much afraid of becoming addicted. I've become addicted to some things in the past so know how difficult it is to break an addiction. Currently, I do not think I am addicted, but there might be elements of addiction too.

I find that I excel and feel secure in "closed-systems" - such as games - which are not open-ended. With poker, we can learn the correct strategy, the goals are known, there are a limited number of rules. With jobs - and life in general - everything is much more unclear, even the goals are often unknown, there are an infinite number of (job-related, social, technological...) rules, some of which we know, some of which we don't - so I feel less secure and more anxious.

The short and to-the point version of my conclusion today is:

• I would like to work at a normal job
• But, with my anxiety and social anxiety I find this very difficult, deep down, I believe even impossible long-term
• So I continue to play poker but am afraid of becoming addicted
• And am not enjoying the game or lifestyle very much any more
• Plus I notice that poker does not influence my mind well long-term
• Maybe also or even primarily because of all the guilt, shame, anxiety around it...

I will post more another day. Feel free to comment. Thanks for reading.