Ah, I see @how. This then brings me to the question about how to better identify when the ego is encroaching. In this instance it seemed to mask itself as helpful or tag along with some form of analysis or explanation and took over. I was not aware of it until after the fact and maybe I'm a bit sleepy but I'm having trouble seeing it even now in reflection. I just know it was involved but not clear on which parts.
If I follow the emotion experienced I encounter feelings such as frustration and concern. "I" want "my" point understood. "He" doesn't see it "my" way. I can follow the why to that question to find many more questions such as concern for his welbeing which is apparently my problem, and also my own self-interest in persuading him to join me in my perspective. I can continue in this fashion with some effort...is this the way to do it?
I did some contemplating on what's been said and see now some quick growing attachments to wrong views sprouted and muddied the waters.
The body and mind rebels against losing their stuff they like and having to do stuff they don't like. It mucks up the view with discomforts and so on. It seems such an easy thing to forget how to get out of the way once more, and so short lived when it's done right.
Frustration over obstacles, stagnation, or backwards progress is just a form ego takes to lure the self back into making decisions based on hindrances. This back and forth is beginning to feel more taxing than I'm used to, but even that is likely a misdirection.
Not knowing when to act, when not to act, and what to act on and what to not act on is giving me quite a headache lately.
@lobster Thanks, It was well received. I'm just bogged down in ignorance and delusion like usual.
“The self is a hard lump of emotional cunning that has formed in the subconscious out of all the disappointments and hurts the person has experienced since birth, particularly those of a sexual nature. It is terrified of being seen for what it is and directs most people’s decisions and reactions from the safety of the dark of their subconscious. Being an unhappy entity, its influence spoils good relationships and situations and inevitably makes choices that are soon regretted. Under the light of spiritual scrutiny the self squirms and does everything it can to deflect the attention.”
— Barry Long
Jeroen
Even a Zennist could do well in not trying to eliminate ones ego.
The meditation practice simply calls for us to stop living in thrall to it.
Just giving it, no more or less attention, than you would of any of your other sense gate information channels, can neatly side step suffering's traps of either clinging to it/denying it, or ignoring it.
how
Hurt people hurt people. Some things are best not paid forward. Break the chain of hurt. Be the one to squash it. Don't let it carry on through you to someone else.
@FleaMarket said:
It could be a moon being pointed to or maybe an ocean of varying depths.

… meanwhile …
Adyashanti also says something like that, that enlightenment is more akin to a shift in perspective. But he doesn’t call it easy, and has talked a lot about the consequences, aftermath, temporary and sometimes halfway nature of it.
It is all ocean dependent on moon tides. Sometimes deep. Sometimes lagoons. We swim differently according to where we are.
Relax, you are in the ocean. It is not god, nirvana or drowning. It swims through us just as we swim.
lobster
The first step to peace in the outer world
Is a commitment to harmlessness.
Not just to want peace,
But to be peace.
Set the example
And inspire others.
Walk the way first,
And then make yourself known.
Jeroen
Life is an enigma
You have a lifetime to work on it
But don't stress
You are here now
"War and Peace," they say.
When everyone wants "a piece,"
how can there be peace?
Here: "Make peace, not war."
Easy to say; hard to live.
No "piece;" then there's peace.
Peace is our goal
Peace is our mission
Peace is a simple task
Peace is the hardest task
But we must always be striving for Peace
Not the pauses between wars
Peace with no wars, save the ones we constantly fight within
(Where we truly strive for peace)