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obsession with posture
Fenix
Veteran
I have an obsession it feel´s with the way to sit in meditation. It really bugs me all the time and I imagine I can´t be totally wrong.
When I meditate I feel like I'm pretending to meditate. Then I try to sit relaxed with a supportive posture, which I eventually lose it and just slump.
What feeds my idea of this is also that Zen emphasises on having a straight back. How come other traditions don´t stress this point?
This really stresses me out. It should be so simple, but its not. I always feel like Im making this real effort to sit like its some kind of performance and then it starts all over again.
When I meditate I feel like I'm pretending to meditate. Then I try to sit relaxed with a supportive posture, which I eventually lose it and just slump.
What feeds my idea of this is also that Zen emphasises on having a straight back. How come other traditions don´t stress this point?
This really stresses me out. It should be so simple, but its not. I always feel like Im making this real effort to sit like its some kind of performance and then it starts all over again.
0
Comments
if it is bothering you, then cut it out and just pay attention to the mind.
also get a zafu cushion and sit burmese. we set our bodies up to keep them from distracting us in meditation and potentially creating a nice foundation so we can have longer meditation. that is all.
also if you are doing zazen following a zen practice. don't make meditation into a goal orientated task. it is all about the process. zazen itself is the goal. whether the mind is going insane or you're blissed out. there are no hierarchies in zazen. just sit and watch. that is all.
have fun!
As I don't sit on the floor.
I sit on a chair, specifically a recliner?
There is also 'cleaning the windows' meditation, 'sweeping the drive' meditation, 'standing in the rain' meditation and 'polishing the family silver' meditation?
Am I being funny or facetious?
No, I most certainly am not.
Ever heard of 'Fetch water, chop wood'?
Meditative practices, the same either before or after enlightenment....
I think they do actually. Keeping a straight back really does seem to help - it opens the chest which makes breathing easier, also it helps to keep you alert and awake.
Spiny
If you tilt the pelvis forwards, you actually accentuate the renal/lumbar cavity, and put even more of a strain on that area.
What you're aiming to do is to point the coccyx straight down, which entails tucking it under slightly. This straightens the lumbar region, creating a pull between the lumbar vertebrae and easing the pressure of weight in that region. Hence, the pelvic basin actually tilts backwards....
I think the same is here that there is being aware of doing things as in "cleaning the windows" etc. But then also there is "Meditation" which is sitting still with a straight back if you will A recliner??! I at least find when sitting that my mind is totally clouded and dosing off even when Im slightly slumped. I dont sit on the floor either, I sit in an old office chair.
I feel I cant cause I can only "hear" my bad posture if that makes any sense.
@Daozen I think Ill try tonight to start and do seiza.
It´s so disturbing that it´s come into my everyday life that I cant pay attention in class, I cant converse with people I cant enjoy my food, life, sitting on the train, you name it without thinking I need to sit straight
All the best,
Todd
Perhaps you could try some of the meditations Fed pointed out. When you notice your body not straight, just think "yep, this body is not straight" and continue cleaning your car out in the rain or whathaveyou. Breathe, like during sitting meditation, but get out of your chair. Obsessions are worth disassembling, even though they require effort.
I have a serious heart condition and am currently being treated for anaemia too. I tire very easily so I vary my postures. When I'm well and have energy I sit on my cushion, when I'm not well I sit in bed or lying down. You can stop yourslef falling asleep with discipline and attention.
for the abdomen, you need to start breathing from there through the day and while you meditate. it will loosen on its own as you relax.
Namaste
Have you tried to change the atmosphere? Try meditating in different places and change the scenery or your surroundings a bit. After a while, you will come back to meditating where it comes to you easiest.
metta
metta
Yep!
I have reached far beyond all by sitting at that recliner.
Don't get me wrong, I don't always do it, but I would say 80% is on the recliner at 30 min a session.
Working meditation, eating meditation, washing meditation and the list goes on!:)
Thanks for the reminder!
I think the same is here that there is being aware of doing things as in "cleaning the windows" etc. But then also there is "Meditation" which is sitting still with a straight back if you will
I would think of those as more to do with developing mindfulness than with developing concentration.
Spiny
Spiny
Spiny
"If you lean back in that chair again, I'm making you stand at the table!"
I grew up in a Midwest US culture that was obsessed about posture, especially for young men and ladies. Slumping was the worst thing you could do. It showed a problem with attitude and was supposed to lead to some sort of deformity later in life. We watched those "health movies" in school where well behaved kids who would get beat up at recess in real life politely sat straight up, legs uncrossed, hands on their lap. Cartoon spines would illustrate the terrible damage not sitting properly would do. Maybe not so much taught, now.
Most cultures have this thing about posture, taught to proper young children, and you want to know the roots? It's because the poor and those forced into a lifetime of manual labor have bad backs and walk around stooped. If you carried heavy loads or bend over planting crops or even doing bookkeeping all your life, you couldn't help showing the lifetime injury to your spine. So a straight back was a sign of status. That's all there is to it. It's the same way dark skin used to mean lower status, because those people had to work under a hot sun every day. Only in California did it get flipped, to where a good tan showed you were wealthy enough to lay around on the beach all day instead of keeping your clothes on working indoors.
So let's talk about the dreaded lotus posture. For the West, it would be better if we had left that floor sitting in the East, where it's just the natural way to sit down. No chairs, you know. Someone from Korea or Japan doesn't grit their teeth while their legs scream in agony any more than we find sitting on a kitchen chair uncomfortable. So that monk on the floor with his feet twisted up onto his thighs? That's the same as you sitting on a comfortable bench.
So the neglected part of meditation for the West, why we get it wrong, is that the first rule should be, "Get comfortable!" Sure, there's theory about chakras and energy flow and such. Blood flow and not doing damage to the nerves in your legs should trump that.
But we see all those pictures of Buddha sitting in lotus, and we want desperately to do that. And some of us, blessed with limber bodies or the physical training to do so, happily twist into a pretzel and make it look easy.
Meditate. Get comfortable, breath using your abdomen, and sit or lie quietly, doing nothing. If even sitting still hurts, a quiet walk around the park while meditating. Don't try to walk where you might get hit by traffic or trip over something. Chant or no chant, count breaths or not, what you are doing is learning how to pay attention. You're taking a break from the distractions of life to just observe what it means to live. If your legs are screaming at you in pain, then find another way to sit. You already know what pain feels like. That's not why you're meditating.
My initial response would be to suggest you try keeping your mouth slightly open while meditating, teeth apart, and place your tongue on the roof of the mouth so you continue to breathe through your nose. Hard to tense the jaw with it open.
metta
Your jaw, your tension.....
Can I have a comfy chair please? ;-)
Lazee Spinee
The body is never satisfied no matter how you sit. After a while it will always start to hurt somewhere. The trick is to find a posture that is comfortable enough to give you the ability to leave your body behind and focus on the breath. Finding and getting used to such a posture takes time, so just take it easy. Also you can meditate on a chair or couch, I find the strait back helps staying awake but is not necessary to meditate.
Tension in your jaw might come from tension in your mind.
It doesn't matter really. When you are in single minded focus your whole body will adapt to everything, as opposed to us "trying" to make it adapt.
Progressive muscle relaxation for stress relief
Progressive muscle relaxation is another effective and widely used strategy for stress relief. It involves a two-step process in which you systematically tense and relax different muscle groups in the body.
With regular practice, progressive muscle relaxation gives you an intimate familiarity with what tension—as well as complete relaxation—feels like in different parts of the body. This awareness helps you spot and counteract the first signs of the muscular tension that accompanies stress. And as your body relaxes, so will your mind. You can combine deep breathing with progressive muscle relaxation for an additional level of relief from stress.
Progressive Muscle Relaxation Sequence
Right foot
Left foot
Right calf
Left calf
Right thigh
Left thigh
Hips and buttocks
Stomach
Chest
Back
Right arm and hand
Left arm and hand
Neck and shoulders
Face
Most progressive muscle relaxation practitioners start at the feet and work their way up to the face. For a sequence of muscle groups to follow, see the box to the right:
Loosen your clothing, take off your shoes, and get comfortable.
Take a few minutes to relax, breathing in and out in slow, deep breaths.
When you’re relaxed and ready to start, shift your attention to your right foot. Take a moment to focus on the way it feels.
Slowly tense the muscles in your right foot, squeezing as tightly as you can. Hold for a count of 10.
Relax your right foot. Focus on the tension flowing away and the way your foot feels as it becomes limp and loose.
Stay in this relaxed state for a moment, breathing deeply and slowly.
When you’re ready, shift your attention to your left foot. Follow the same sequence of muscle tension and release.
Move slowly up through your body — legs, abdomen, back, neck, face — contracting and relaxing the muscle groups as you go.