Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
spiritual crisis + meditation may do harm !?
im concerned about meditation = sometimes i feel benefits, sometimes i think it is short term good feelings, sometimes i feel worse, sometimes i think its just mirroring me, but lately i have experiecend kriyas- shaking and seizure like feelings = or currents of energy who the hell knows, and i started researching...im very concerned at some of the scary evidence showing meditation is no miracle after all, and my faith has been shaken.
i have read countless reports now also of how many people have lost it during vispassana, or encountered severe depressions...buddhists are replete with answers like- well u should slow down, or you are just having your sickness mirrored at you/.. but this begs to question- are they right?? or is the state of meditation actually simply not this wonder magical state it is touted as...
i am very confused right now, so im looking for answers. sorry if my doubting is infectious- im having a severe spiritual crisis right now, my mind feels like its craking up - not even sure if i should go to a shaman, a guru, or a psychologist, a friend or turn inward and meditate or turn outward. to share my burden or keep it to myself -- see im- or my mind at least is kinda messed up right now. i feel bad for sending out bad vibes im just lost at moment.
i hope this will not offend you i just would like some guidance...
as this article spooked me big time:
http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/MaryGarden.html
i have read countless reports now also of how many people have lost it during vispassana, or encountered severe depressions...buddhists are replete with answers like- well u should slow down, or you are just having your sickness mirrored at you/.. but this begs to question- are they right?? or is the state of meditation actually simply not this wonder magical state it is touted as...
i am very confused right now, so im looking for answers. sorry if my doubting is infectious- im having a severe spiritual crisis right now, my mind feels like its craking up - not even sure if i should go to a shaman, a guru, or a psychologist, a friend or turn inward and meditate or turn outward. to share my burden or keep it to myself -- see im- or my mind at least is kinda messed up right now. i feel bad for sending out bad vibes im just lost at moment.
i hope this will not offend you i just would like some guidance...
as this article spooked me big time:
http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/MaryGarden.html
0
Comments
First of all, you might want to have a thorough physical examination.
Second, you might want to put your 'spiritual' efforts on hold for a while. Just forget about miracles, being good-better-best or whatever other expectations appeal to you.
Third, if you are feeling on edge, do consider seeing a psychological counselor.
Slow down. Take good care of yourself.
And if I were you I wouldn't pay too much attention to what scientists say about mind. They only observe the mind's impact on brain's chemistry and immediately conclude than brain causes all these things to happen. I disagree, mind causes and brain reacts so of course if you monitor brain activities there would be anormalities. It would be interesting if they can create 'consciousness', an artificial intelligence...Science have no clue about consciousness..I don't trust science when it comes to "mind". The science of mind is Buddhism...
Right understanding
Right intention
Right speech
Right action
Right livelihood
Right effort
Right mindfulness
you can have:
Right meditation
meditation isn't a magical solution, it takes effort and knowing your pace... if not, it could "backfire".
as for meditation-- if it is you needing all of the 8 fold path as ingredients to meditate- well then nobody should be meditating as i mean nobody is balanced ( unless ur enlightened) and i mean for that dalai lama should not be meditating as he has no issues with killing and eating animals - that is not right livelihood or right compassion / action no matter how you cut it...yet he meditates....very confusing.
reflect:
Impermanence to overcome attachment to life
Karma and Suffering to overcome attachment to sense
Love to overcome attachment to peace
to overcome lack of knowlege of the method:
Refuge in the Triple Gem
Cultivation of bodhicitta
Training in Aspirational Bodhicitta
Training in Action Bodhicitta
The Paramitas
The Accumulation (application, insight, meditation, perfection)
Ten Bodhisattva Bhumis
Perfect Buddhahood
Why your faith has shaken? Is it because you think we are imagining all these things and everything is in our head? that there is no after life? and you haven't seen the benefits of practicing in this life? I am curious and want to understand your situation a little bit better? I know you answer some of them in your OP but can you be a little more specific?
Its quite normal to feel a little odd after becoming mindful, especially through meditation. Especially if you've used substances that alter your perceptions, if there is any history of that in your past.
You seem to be turning your fear into a mountain. Dismantle the fear, don't climb the mountain. No matter what your mind thinks or fears, it can search google and find supporting proof that the fear is justified.
In my opinion, helping you move past this requires knowing a little more about the anxious feelings, and where the "kriya"-like sensations were arising in your body. Where were you feeling the energy? In your arms? Neck? Head?
It will be ok, just try to slow your mental spinning (with mindful breathing) a little and you can work this out.
With warmth,
Matt
Take it easy. If you are having an overly strong reaction from meditation, perhaps just try mindfully watching your breath.
Having an actual teacher, rather than google, would assist you greatly at times like this. So perhaps consider finding one.
Peace
As for the article, the author widely misses the moral of the story. The suicide has more to do with relying on the false promises of a great Enlightened guru like Bhagwan Rajneesh, who exists to be worshipped instead of teaching the Dharma. But more than that, suicide always leaves people looking for simple causes, because it shakes our faith in the human will to live.
Sometimes all we need is talk to other people, even if just to put our problems in perspective for us, or help us think out of the box. You don't even need to speak to the "perfect person", that is, speaking to a guru may not be any better than speaking to a psychologist, or a friend. You can just speak to a random person usually and get an idea how to solve a problem.
c_w is right. Not everyone was cut out to meditate. If you're meditating for mindfulness, you can do these things to cultivate mindfulness with any activity (washing dishes, playing a sport, etc.):
1. Paying attention to the moment-to-moment details of experience
2. Paying particular attention to the body and one's experience of it
3. Recognizing the experience of mind and not getting caught in memories of the past or plans for the future
4. Trying neither too much nor too little
5. Letting go of distractions and paying attention to the present moment
6. Noticing one's experience without judging it
i started to wonder if maybe this was just a seizure ( i have no history of epilepsy) and went on the net and scared myself...one doubt lead to another...and fear took hold. and although to be honest i NEVER had a bad experience while meditating- i began to worry after i read the article- well what if it starts to badly effect me like these others and i get suicidal or something --( i did have depression in the past) also to say - oh well people who did drugs or were depressed shouldnt do it is strange - so they dont have access to understanding the no -self ? they dont get to be enlightend?? reeks of descrimination.
but before this- i already had a real issue with the fact that at my old temple- even though my Rinpoche seemed "awake" there was meat offerings at the Tsoks. ( i dont know if the monks ate the meat or not --)
What really started off my doubts was this-
i have no issues if people buddhist or not want to eat meat, but when i heard that Dalai Lama eats meat- i mean this just was something i never got over. how can you be awake and full of love and light as you fork a piece of veal your mouth - i came from a family of farmers so i know alot about how many farms "raise" their animals...and i know that Dalai Lama was once a vegetarain and he knew all the horrible things done to animals yada yada yada and even told others to become vegetarian but it seems he loves meat more.
i heard all the rationalizations ( doctors advise him for his health- please if your "awake" you advise others not the other way around) anyway all these rationalizations - i heard them all and they have no merit.to me they are just that- rationalizations.
there is no excuse for it -it has turned me, and others i know - and countless other people away from buddhism because of this hypocrisy- many buddhists, animal organizations and even Paul Mcartney sent him a letter pleading with him to change his ways.
i live in Greece now away from my Rinpoche and where i am there are no Rinpches i can talk to- but how can i trust them anymore anyway? i can't blindly follow and not use my head-- i dont think having doubts or a crisis is a bad thing, im not a christian ! while im here i go at it alone but i miss being part of a sangha very much.
this sentence i read made me feel alot better about doubt:
noncritical acceptance of dogma is not what Buddhism is about. The Vietnamese Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh says, "Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Buddhist systems are guiding means; they are not absolute truth."
http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/faithdoubt.htm
love that.
There's no rule you have to meditate to be a Buddhist. You can take the values, the 4 Noble Truths, 8fold path, compassion, mindfulness, and work with that. There's also no rule about not eating meat. The Dalai Lama was never really a vegetarian, he just tried it briefly and it didn't work out for him. Buddhists in Tibet, many Tibetans in exile, Mongols and other Inner Asian Buddhists all eat meat, it's part of their culture. Buddhism isn't a straightjacket. Relax. Lighten up. It sounds like your busy mind is getting carried away. Are you ok?
RE: doubt and dogma--if you haven't read it already, check out Stephen Batchelor's "Confession of a Buddhist Atheist". I think you'll get a lot out of it. Batchelor may be your man. : ) Take care.
I understand why you look at supposedly enlightened people (or perhaps moreso those we expect to be enlightened) with a more critical eye, but remember if they are enlightened, then they probably understand a bit more than we do. If they don't, then karma will do its job.
If you are still worried, maybe talk to your doctor about it - not that a guru would know less, but for example certain kinds of epilepsy might require certain devices to diagnose and they are only available to medical professionals (i'm thinking EEG). The Dalai Lama is an expert on how to make your life happier, or how to reduce suffering, he is not an expert in every field of knowledge in the world. If he gets a blood test done and certain values are off, it is the same for him as for everyone else. His body is just as subject to impermanence or dysfunction as is everyone else's, and if he has to eat meat to stay healthy i would consider this a small price to pay for ones health, especially in a culture that usually eats meat for no reason.
HHDL still says that he would not eat meat if they would kill the animal for him.
He is against animal slaugtering.
I think if he was eating meat for pleasure, than I would agree with you. But he only eats meat two times a week for health reasons.
He is also supporting vegeterian diet and calling it the ideal state.
What tick you off is actually what I like about Buddhism. We do not deny practical reasons. The practical & wise approach is more important than concepts and idealogies. You are judging him based on your ideology where as what you are missing to see is the practical reasons behind his action.
I refuse to believe in ideology where it is based on dogma such as "you must never eat meat"
whereas the wise approach would be " you could eat meat if necessary but we prefer not to"...
The animal is dead already...That animal would still be dead whether he eats it or not. He doesn't eat for pleasure and only few times because of health reasons. He still praises vegeterianism as the ideal state.
next- oh its ok for Dalai lama to eat meat so long as somebody else did the killing ?? um that is no different than everyone else who eats meat or goes to mcDonalds- somebody kills it somebody buys it. that is cause and effect, also known as KARMA.
eating meat for health reasons has:
A) been disproven - and if people dont agree, well so many people have shown you can live long and healthy on a vegetarian diet why not him ?
C) he is in fact a horrible role model for buddhism, as the "big chief" he should show compassion and ethics-- do you think im the only one questioning buddhism because of his blatant hypocrisy and other meat eating Rinpoches ??
D) your logic is off kilter- - the animal is only dead cause someone kills it so he and others can eat them. the animal suffers and dies on his account. no two ways around that karma.
F) this is not MY ideology it is buddhist - it's about doing no harm, causing no suffering and showing compassion. dalai lama gets an F in all categories.
Most vegans/vegetarians justify it as a One-Time Kill. And the intent of their act is completely different. It's considered the lesser of two evils when you look at the casualties of farming vs. the systematic slaughter/breeding/overfeeding of the meat industry.
I'm not a vegan or vegetarian though. But I can see how it is the lesser of two evils. The meat industry treats animals terribly. The things they do are so inhumane.
Like an ABC news article that covered this topic said 'maybe we should all try to eat less of everything'.
For your arms, have you tried holding some hemitite? Many consider it grounding when energy in our body is running out of our control. I do not know of scientific backing, but it is worth a shot as a few stones would be a buck or two.
@aMatt
I agree. We shouldn't judge others for being imperfect when we are imperfect ourselves.
see if anything fits how you are feeling
Nature teaches that the lotus gently opens and blooms in its own time, naturally, and that forcing a bloom will weaken or kill the plant.
There is a very thin line between doing and overdoing,
between exercise that strengthens and exercise that causes serious muscle, tendon, and ligament damage.
There is a very thin line between a fast that gently cleanses a body and a fast that suddenly unleashes an overwhelming poisonous flood of toxins on the body that had previously been breathed and ingested in the course of daily living over a lifetime, but that had been safely sequestered by the body in fat cells up until a dramatic/extended fast suddenly releases them all at once.
There is a very thin line between watering and water-logging a plant,
between nurturing and pushing,
between encouraging growth and forcing growth.
There is a very thin line between devotion.... and obsession.
Cross that line, and real physical problems will result.
There is very real danger in trying to walk on the water. People easily drown from trying to walk on the water when they are not at all yet sufficiently developed and prepared to go walking on the water.
If he was a cheater, he would eat meat behind the scene and none of us would even heard about it. Forget about a man in his position, even a simple man would quit eating meat if you offer him a good paying job based on condition that he would become a vegeterian...lol...I become a vegeterian and it is not so hard...If I can do it, HHDL can do it too.. lol...
If he is still doing this publicly then I have faith in him that he has his own good reasons. Maybe reasons that is beyond my understanding.
And I also read other ordinary non-buddhist people's experience who is advised to eat meat when they suffer from hepatitis B. You are not his doctor are you, and you do not know his condition.
Your words are poisionous. You obviously have some faith issues and also your mind is very tense and cannot let go from ideologies... I wish you the best.
So, what this article is saying that medical doctors and psychologists have found that meditation is actually more often than not dangerous? I'm confused now.
Edit: Didn't see the responses in between, the article I'm referring to is in Thao's post above.
as for the rest- nope dalai lama is not at all enlightened im sure of that- and i just realized it's ok to think that anyway- cause actually he never said he was in fact he always said he wasn't ! it's everyone else that needed to believe he was. he probably is a reincarnation of the budha of compassion but he sure needs more training or whatnot as he sure doesnt get it yet.
im pretty sure i had a teacher who was, and i have a strong feeling thch nhat hanh is, or so im convinced at any rate. ( interesting i also just heard he is vegetarian
so what yes insects die but you know i dont go around TRYING TO KILL THEM to eat them -unless say i had to as i am in the woods starving or something... i try to AVOID harm, out of compassion, which is more than i can say for veal eating dalai lama ( who by the way was made very aware of the horrible conditions in which animals are raised in north america - (where he ate veal- i think it was in chicago that the press made a fuss aobut it) but when he was offered a vegetarian dish he actually refused it ! said to the french ambassador once " im a monk not a vegetarian" nice !
animals are not raised outside = they are raised in concentration camp like conditions for the most part- and dalai lama is aware of that- yet he doesn't give a damn - he is a simple monk highly aware in many areas for all i know, but he's got a ways to go -if even i a simple pilates teacher know better than to harm animals when i don't have to i mean come on.
there is also a huge difference in consciousness and pain levels and suffering between a plant ( yes i have heard stories that they react- but there is no evidence of pain receptors) and we do need to eat something- but i prefer to eat the smallest consciousness possible- without pain receptors if possible- not a pig that can't even roll around for 6 months due to their farming conditions ( gestation crates) and all the other nasty human intervention that he is so aware of !
i am no fan of Dalai lama and im ashamed of him and his fierce love of meat ( he admitted that in an interview once- how he and his brother used to wait like dogs for the meat at his father's table etc..etc.. i didn't find it amusing)
ALSO: i only had my doubts because of him, and i am certainly not the only one that almost left buddhism on HIS account because HE is not being a good example.
ALSO: this is not ideology- this is not about black and white thinking- that is another rationalization- what this is about is compassion- not causing suffering deliberately, and buddha said " to eat meat kills the seed of compassion"
as for Doubt- it is never infectious unless you let it be.if your faith was strong you would have given answers more like Aurora or Jeffrey.
sangha is supposed to be here to help others in doubt- not judge them - but obviously i came to the wrong place as all i have recieved here is judgement for the most part. i guess it was a good test for your own faith and i can't say you fly with passing colors - but who cares if you doubt - i don't !
doubt is part of the process - faith and doubt are a double edged sword.
i think some of you should think about becoming christians with all your fire and brimstone speeches...
how dare i doubt or not have loyalty to the dalai lama GOD ? is that what you mean?! i wasn't aware this was a cult
regardless i have my faith restored again, no real thanks to many of you, but to those that were kind enough to give real sincere advice, i do thankyou !
catch my drift? following a person is dangerous- the truth is in you - to look for it externally in a person is not the idea, but if the person can guide you into yourself, that's different.
...so, whisper quietly to the tormented heart you left behind (where-ever might have strayed) & develop a real genuine sense of Metta bhaavana (universal loving-kindness meditation) without any swordsmanship of the tongue against the dark energies you feel, apply a genuine compassionate softness to your grasp of every negaive situation you face & there will most definately be an overcoming after a while, you just need patience, patience with every thing if life is too overwhleming, slow things down, especially your food, have gratitude that samsara has sustained your being, in this you may develop the riught path for overcoming it's many evils. let the bodies natural healing energies do their work,..samsara can be useful, as we have all known growing up, the nurturing of the body can emotionally serve to nurture the heart and mind too on occasion. indulgence in meditation is just as harmful as the indulgence in any kind of food we use to sustain our bodies.... a starvation of both forms of nurturing when the emotional body is not prepared for it can do harm...
Stay safe friends
2. I think you need to examine your beliefs. For example, i'm getting the impression that you are just doing things for others.
In Buddhism, compassion is something that if practiced by a person, he himself becomes happier (it's hard to feel like shit when you know you have done something nice for somebody, for example).
The same goes for meditation. As a human we have a tendency to be swayed by our opinions or wishes, that may later do us harm. Meditation shows you this. For example, say you want a chocolate, but have to watch your weight. When we want something, we feel we will be unhappy, that we are treating ourselves badly with not getting the chocolate, that we deserve it, that we worked really hard for it... So usually even though we shouldn't, that chocolate might end up eaten. And what happens when you do something like this? The wish goes away, but in its place comes guilt. And going on like this, we essentially keep ourselves in perpetual suffering.
Here is where meditation comes in useful. See thing is, if you ever meditated, you probably know how thoughts just pop up, even if you tried to be completely calm, and then emotions come about and so on... For example, in meditation you get the urge to eat the chocolate you are not supposed to eat... but you keep still, and you get all the above responses, like "if i don't eat it somebody else will" or "my sugar level is to low to meditate, i need to eat it" or "i payed for it, i can't let it go to waste" or all the other million of excuses our minds come up with. But since its a meditation session the person just observes all the thoughts, and guess what happens? As the thought appeared, so it disappears and you start observing thoughts and emotions related to something else.
Next time, when passing the chocolate, that person might not even buy it anymore. It might occur to him "i deserve the chocolate", but it will be just a thought, and he can let it go with out attaching to it, maybe thinking to himself "but i deserve a healthy weight more, this is just habitual thinking, i know i don't really need it".
Where is HHDL in that? Thing is, he isn't. Some people find some things he might suggest useful to their practice, you might find he is just a person who you thought valued animal life more, but now you see he doesn't. Learn from people that you think are worth learning from, and maybe read up a bit when you have time on why things are done like they are. Blindly following someone is risky, i would not do it personally, so i will never suggest it to someone else - if nothing else, you might stumble over the person you are following and twist your ankle
i really do have a big compassion for animals -and we dont have to eat them so why will i contribute to torturing and killing animals. i dont care if u do ( well i do but i wont get on your case or anything) but when it comes to the head of buddhism, there i have a problem. A BIG ONE.
i judge him because of his actions. he eats meat. ( also i wasn't impressed with some of the questions he answered in a film about him, he seemed a bit confused regarding his political vs. monk role but that's besides the point)
anyway he may have had some great realizations but he missed the most basic one
there is nothing complicated about it. you can't justify it.
( well you can but it means coming up with mystical rationalizations or twisting the truth to suit your needs) believe me i wish i could i wanted to believe in him ! broke my heart when i could no longer kid myself- even left the path for a long time.
YISHAI- that is like saying we cant judge Hitler's actions because of the circumstance that made him. ??
i certainly CAN judge his actions. i dont judge his "consciousness " or soul or whatever else but i do judge the actions.
Dalai Lama had the knowledge- he met with animal rights groups. he had many other buddhist activitst rail against his new diet.. he was once a vegetarian, but he chose to eat meat despite that. there is no two ways around his hypocrisy.
Furthermore- him eating meat, ( although strangely he still "recommends people to try to be vegetarian ..um ok ??) by him eating meat, many buddhists now also think ok i can do it too !!
i wonder how many 10000's of animals are dying terrible deaths because many buddhists now eat meat because, well dalai lama eats meat, why not me?
you cant preach compassion to ALL SENTIENT BEINGS, with a cheeseburger in your hand.
from your reactions it appears you are cultivating an unpleasant mental state. IMHO, one can get much better results in many undertakings if one feels peace, joy, so it might be worth it to achieve those things for yourself (and consequently for others). A happy vegetarian will be more effective at promoting vegetarianism than an angry one.
Best wishes
Maarten
Ever heard the story about the two Buddhist monks
[not sure where i got this one, but it is not mine, and i may have modified it somewhat XD]
monk 1: I wish we had a temple
monk 2: *Picks a grass leaf off the floor and puts it into the earth so that it stands and says*: I agree...*points to the grass leaf* Look - it is our temple!
You cant justify it, but you needn't judge it. Having a problem with what someone else does will do nothing to prevent that person from doing it, it will only cause suffering to yourself. There is no need to justify it - he does what he does (or did), and you strongly disagree with him. Now what you can do, is let it go. Holding on to it will only hurt your own progress. If you dislike the Dalai Lama, maybe check out traditions other the the Tibetan one. But it is given that you will find people to disagree with everywhere you look, which holds true not only for Buddhism, but any other interest as well.
"Giving others the freedom to be stupid is one of the most important and hardest steps to take in spiritual progress."
[I think its from a book called "Snow in the Summer" but i'm not sure anymore] Not directed at me, but let me add my 0.02$, or just ignore what i will write but -
The things people like Hitler have done are, at least to the knowledge of most people, unacceptable. It is true, some things you can't excuse.
There is no denying Hitler did horrible things, or that animals are in conditions in which they are. And the best we can do sometimes is acknowledge those facts and let it go.
But whatever we do, we do not know the things another person experiences. We cannot measure another persons suffering for what he did*. We are all caught in our own faulty thinking, as for example Hitler was. In his mind, he was trying to do good - but obviously he had some wrong views, as we all have. Sadly he came into a position of power without having the experience that would change is world view, and maybe prevented the tragedy.
We all do things that cause suffering to other beings, mainly because our wrong views. And we all suffer for our mistakes.
Understand that Buddhism does not have a concept of good and evil in the usual sense. There are things that are skillful (meaning contributing to the persons happiness and freedom) or things that are unskillful (the opposite).
In the Buddhist sense, what Hitler did was not evil. But it was unskilful, because it brought suffering to him and all those people. Still, there is a distinction.
If you want absolute evil and wrongdoings and punishment, you might have to look into a different religion, Buddhism does not involve such concepts (for its own reasons of course).
The precepts are not commandments. Breaking precepts will not result in eternal hell, neither for you or the Dalai Lama. It is a general guideline though, meaning that if you choose to break it, you have a big chance that you are doing it in delusion and connected to that a big possibility of suffering the consequences while acting on it.
A person cant be a saint in Buddhism, as for that you need the concept of good. So there may be a conflict in your perceptions of him when your idea of how the Dalai Lama should act conflicts with how he really does. But there was no promise that he would live according to your ideas regardless of his position or status. Also may i suggest that your disillusionment with the Dalai Lama has, in fact, nothing to do WITH the Dalai Lama, neither with what the Dalai Lama does, only with your projections of him. You might have thought he was perfect. But now you see nobody can be.
* You might say we need to punish such people, but for example some people can happily suffer in what looks to us like paradise, while others can keep their happiness in the worst of situations.
-----
I really hope you did not die of old age while reading my posts
"[t]aking life, beating, wounding, binding, stealing, lying, deceiving, worthless knowledge, adultery; this is stench. Not the eating of meat." (Amagandha Sutta) Those that use others for rationalization are deluded. You cannot prevent suffering. Accept that. You seem to be highly attached to your vegetarian views and animal suffering. This is causing you suffering. Your suffering does not end theirs, so why suffer?
It'd be funny to see. And I don't see why not.
"Monks, I allow you fish and meat that are quite pure in three respects: if they are not seen, heard or suspected to have been killed on purpose for a monk. But, you should not knowingly make use of meat killed on purpose for you." ~Buddha
Your mind seems out of your control. Do you feel ranting about your beliefs nurtures other people into seeing from your view? There is no appeal in your words for our hearts to extend to animals, I see only hateful and ignorant bullying of others' choices. Is there more to brodyn than hate for meat eating and pilates? You claim you have a big heart, but where in the world is it?
there is nothing wrong with good judgement. what are you saying we should be zombies- not thinking humans??? thinking is a useful faculty used to discern between what is a helpful action and what is unhelpful.
Hitler was an exampe, i dont feel bad using him as an example, the world is full of suffering and bad things and "yuky feelings" are u in some kind of denial ???
budhism is not to escape our feelings and thoughts. not to become a zombie follower.
i am not bullying anyone here into being a vegetarian, i am angry with the Dalai lama for being a total hypocrite. do you all fail to grasp the concept of compassion???
is compassion just a fluffy word to you with no action to follow through on??? i even try to avoid stepping on a bug if possible. yes i eat plants and bugs get in but that is for my survival. but i dont nor does dalai lama NEED to be the cause of torture and killing of animals he is directly responsible for.
he is also responsible because of this- for turning aspiring buddhists with compassion for all sentient beings, away from buddhism/
he is also responsible for being a terrible role model and setting an example that it is essentially ok to eat meat for whatever excuses you want to make up for yourself.
now 10000s of buddhists are responsible directy to the extremely inhumane treatment of animals, where pigs cannot role over in a gestation crate for up to 6 months and bite on a bar until their mouths bleed. this is common practice.
i dont care if you eat meat, that is your karma, but i do care if the teacher and role model of buddhism does because he is causing untold suffering to 100o's of animals.
you guys shouldn't just blindly follow a leader or religion, even budha said that.
besides i mean look at thich nhaht hanh, he is 1000 percent vegetarian, and preaches compassion to all beings- and said to be "enlightened" -- i would put my money on him. b
you fail to grasp that emotions are not to be fought and repressed in buddhism, that the monks too fought to free tibet and acted with violence.
life is suffering but it doesn't mean i will add to it by eating meat when i don't have to. that is not what the budha's teachings are about.
because i don't go around acting like some high and might enlightened buddha who is always calm and happy even when you are witnessing torture of animals before your feet on account of your own buddhist leader ??
you sound like those people brainwashed into a cult following- don't think just follow, be happy, never go against the grain...
buddha was certainly not what i would call a follower blindly following things along, he questioned and forged his own path to his true nature.
I read the words only, but know that apple trees do not bear oranges. You sound like your mind is out of control because when it fantasizes about suffering animals, it tells your hands to type words that sound like the chitters of an angry monkey, rather than compassionate words of wisdom that inspire empathy.
Perhaps if you confront your anger issues, you wouldn't alienate yourself as much as you do. It is natural to feel anger, but unskillful to use that anger. We nuture it, not harness it. Otherwise we just come across as a judgy bitch, an activist, unwise.
Do you see how your monkey mind is going crazy against me? How pointless it is for you to let it breed such emotions? How little I care for the mind's chittery, worthless opinions? How much I care for the one imprisioned by it?
also, it's just my theory, but i believe the body has a type of vibration and meditation keeps that in balance or calmed. kinda like a tuning fork when you just hit it, It vibrates to and fro for a moment til it settles down and makes a nice sounding note. (i hope that made sense, I just woke up and i'm thinking in fragments)
Hope that helps you some, good luck on your path
"Perhaps you could do some metta meditation. You seem very addicted to judging and caught by your monkey chatter. Your work is to become more compassionate, not point out the faults of others."
( ok that is like saying when Hitler took over germany- don't criticize, just be compassionate, and let him do his thing. so maybe you should not vote for a president/ prime minister- because that is critical thinking and judging.
i am not caught up in "monkey chatter" you idiot. im using my brain. buddhism is not to be dumb, fatalistic, and just allow leaders of a said spiritual path to go out of control themselves !!! ) no offense but your a zombie !
"I read the words only, but know that apple trees do not bear oranges. You sound like your mind is out of control because when it fantasizes about suffering animals "
yes my mind is out of control to imagine the REALITY of suffering animals. my mother grew up on a farm ding bat, my grandparents on her side were farmers. i don't need to imagine.YOU are the one in denial and not being mindful of what went into your "cheeseburger" so stupid i can't even go there.
"Perhaps if you confront your anger issues, you wouldn't alienate yourself as much as you do. It is natural to feel anger, but unskillful to use that anger. We nuture it, not harness it. Otherwise we just come across as a judgy bitch, an activist, unwise. "
how am i being unskillful in "managing my anger" i am merely pointing out hypocrisy and ignorance ( yours now) and as for me being judgemental- yes i judge because someone needs to speak up for the untold suffering among animals as i wrote above - because of an idiot role model- dalai lama that twists the dharma to suit his meat loving ways.
and it's ok for all 3 of you to judge me ?? are those statements not judegemental? you sound like brainwashed cult memebers. dont think. just accept, dont judge. just swallow any bullshit and pretend it's not there....
how can you talk of mindfulness and compassion when you are the ones fantasizing that your dinner plate is not filled with suffering of animals.
pigs by the way are regularly put in gestation crates ( the females) for 6 months they can't move around, they go so crazy their mouths bite on the bars and bleed.) this is reality - WAKE UP SLEEPYHEADS !!!!
go see my buddhism and idiocy blog all 3 of you - i wrote it just for you