Welcome home! Please contact
lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site.
New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days.
Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
There is just 'one' thing I still cant understand about Buddhist path to Enlightenment..
I dont seem to understand why Buddhists, (especially MONKS) havent achieved Awakening by following Buddhas Path.
I have spoke to many Teachers, Masters, Practitioners and Lay people (from all over the world) and I havent found one person who is Awaken or Enlightened by following the path (of course we all agree with buddha and follow his teachings but that 'ache feeling' is still within us)..
(Just like when Prince Siddartha left home because he had this 'aching pain in his heart', he went searching for Enlightenment) And his found it and then shared his teachings... BUT..
But if the 8 fold path is the way to Enlightenment, then why arnt 'all' the monks Enlightened? Ive been lucky enough to meet many monks and i always asked the same question. 'Have you achieved the goal of Enlightenment? and the answer is always NO!
I dont want to sound like a troll..
Im just that this question keeps bugging me every now and again..
Does anyone have any answers to this pls?
0
Comments
Full teaching HERE
Elaborate please!
Because the ground is infinite purity and infinite potentiality. Thus ignorance and wisdom is infinite.
Everything as it is, is perfection.
Theres an infinite capacity to think otherwise.
Enlightenment can kind of be divided into two aspects. Small enlightenment which realizes emptiness, which I think is what we usually mean when we talk about enlightenment, and the full enlightenment of a Buddha. I suspect that when a master is asked they can easily say that they are not enlightened because they are not a Buddha.
We are just nominal projections onto processes. There is no thing that can claim enlightenment. When in fact all things are enlightened by the fact that they are impermanent processes.
So no enlightened being would be able to be considered enlightened because it requires a being by our defintion to be enlightened.
The movement of the wind needs no affirmation.
this is actually something that happen to a person.
perhaps you have a different definition of the word enlightenment?
I guess what I'm asking then is a more definite description of what you mean when you think of enlightened?
Also there may be many more enlightened monks than you think. Because the question "Have you achieved the goal of Enlightenment?" can also be answered with "no" because it is not 'you' who reaches enlightenment. It is the dhamma that unfolds itself into an enlightenment. It's like asking a flashlight if it has ever switched itself on to "enlighten" the place. The flashlight could say no (assuming it could talk ) because it can't switch itself on. But that doesn't mean that it was never "enlightened". Likewise someone can't enlighten themself; the path enlightens them. This is what no-self means.
If you have never seen any Buddhist who lives up to your idea of what a Buddha is supposed to be, then maybe it's your idea of what a Buddha looks like that is faulty, or maybe it's the Buddhists who are faulty. I've heard both sides of the argument.
It is about what we know rather than what we can explain, and we can know what we know from experience.
what really matters to you is - if you have directly experienced the unconditioned or not.
Above is based on my theoretical understanding only, as till now i have not experienced anything with direct experience.
How wonderful. Thankyou for your response.
And that is the key: theoretical.
Theoretical, how familiar I am with that.
Picking up, cultivating, collecting hoardes and hoardes of intellectual capacity play. Words and understandings, memorised and repeated again and again as if it is mine!
We can all speak the unspeakable but the difference in the true enlightened ones are the realisation of difference, the genuine fathoms of insight and understanding that can only be known through practice -- through experiential knowing and love.
To speak is all too easy and common. And on Buddhist boards and the internet, certainly this is all we have -- yet.
But that genuine Buddhist understanding must penetrate through the gross and subtle shadows of mere intellectual understanding, appreciation, repetition and above all -- belief.
Our good friend @taiyaki may believe what s/he says but ...
"We are just nominal projections onto processes"
Really?
That sounds more like a line from a science fiction movie than the heart of a genuine monk. Without compassion, we are all in reality dead.
The heart is alive, ALWAYS alive, and operating in ways that can be not merely encapsulated by our projections/theories.
That the words might have some semblance to reality is because nearly all enlightened ones of the past/present/future have needed to use some words to give a hint and a taste of what they know but -- to take these words and repeat and believe is, I think, to just take that candy wrapping as the fruit, and I think an injustice to the mission that those past ones served.
Just my opinion, as they say ...
Best wishes,
Abu
conventional truth is the truth of Samsara. ultimate truth is the truth of seeing the things as 'just they are' - all conditioned phenomena are anicca, dukkha and anatta.
the moment the concept of 'I' is created in the mind, that same moment the external world Samsara comes into being. but whatever is out there in Samsara is conditioned and so is anicca, dukkha and anatta.
the root cause is ignorance or avidya.
when ignorance will be removed, the concept of 'I' will be removed, the concept of Samsara will be removed, conventional truth will be removed and then we shall be able to see the things as 'just they are'.
So walking the 8 fold path 'is' to act in an enlightened way!!
So they maybe no different in buddhas actions and those who fully walk the 8 fold path..
Buddha was enlightened coz he walked the path.
So those who walk his path aswell, also walking an enlightened path..
BUT my question still arises; "is enlightenment a special feeling. Or is it just an 'ahhh' moment' ??
Yesterday while dozing after lunch I thought I got Enlightened. But it turned out to be my cell phone on vibrate...
...and it was the wrong number.
so the path is not Awakening, rather walking the path till its end leads to Awakening.
Perhaps you might practice with a real life Zen centre/group and attend sesshins.
This might help clarify what you are genuinely seeking.
Of course there is a difference, but to say so might be far too wrong.
A painted cake can never satisfy one's hunger
Old proverb
Well wishes
Abu
As to your one, I hav heard: That which seeks, is that which we are seeking
Namaste,
Abu
If you are on the path, you may find enlightenment. If you are not on the path, you will not find it.
Just try doing it quietly.
Allen.