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Why do we celebrate Columbus Day?
Vastmind
Memphis, TN Veteran
In the US, why I have off of work today. Paid. :screwy:
Christopher Columbus Day.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7424664n
Christopher Columbus Day.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7424664n
0
Comments
Did I miss it?
to be at work right now. lololol
Annual leave. Sure.
Sick leave. *cough*. Sure.
Holiday leave paid by taxpayers? No.
Then again, I'm usually involved in some kind of anarchy, haha.
:rockon:
"There needs to be a middle ground. America is still the greatest country and the greatest idea of a country ever invented by man. We are the source of so much good for humanity and what much of the world aspires to be. While a lot of bad happened in the creation of the Americas, a lot of really good good has come of it for most and it is the ultimate good that needs to be celebrated on Monday, notwithstanding how we got here."
America is the greatest country and greatest idea of a country - the pinnacle of actual and theoretical!! wow!!
Great that the 'bad' is balanced by the 'good good'... and how could we forget the 'ultimate' good notwithstanding how we arrived here.... the ends notwithstanding the means!!
oh and "It also set the stage for the forceful importation of millions of blacks from Africa, their being dragged into slavery and their legacy of persecution and discrimination that has only been redressed recently"
Redressed? redressed!!!??? what a joke!
My middle ground is f*** christopher 'colon' columbus... and by extension Howard too!!
But, if you really feel strongly, why not take Columbus Day and go out and work for charity?
To me the article said that yes, in today's world we see the harm it did to native cultures (who of course weren't really native).
But, I thought the article was admitting that, but also saying that nevertheless we can look at the personal challenges Columbus surmounted in a time when there was a totally different mindset in the world.
Hmm? Don't know what I would do in that situation. The teacher.
Our Fed building is open, but because my work depends on agents
who are not there today, I'm here at NB.
better, I know alot people 'off' working with laptops at home, though.
I already did my service days this week. Gave blood on Saturday, PTA
was last Wed.,....and Thursday, I will be at the Jewish Nursing home
delivering blankets that I and a crochet group did. Thanks for the
reminder!
BTW, what charity would represent Columbus? haha
How were they not native to this land? They may have migrated from the north or from the south of (what is now) US/America, but they were certainly the established indigenous people when Columbus arrived, no?
Well, if you lived out here in Colorado there are actually Indian charities you could work for.
Established does not equal indigenous. If you want to use that definition, then the Euro-White population is now indigenous to NA.
The historical issues faced by black people in America is far from redressed... let alone other issues...
I don't subscribe to the 'nevertheless'... let us consider the actual reality rather than glossing over the issues - maybe then we can better understand how we arrived here and perhaps how to negotiate our way forward.
I am a drug dealer... I make my money from selling sorrow - I feed my family, educate them, I even give money to charity - I've made sufficient money to no longer sell drugs - I retire from the life - my empire grows - I am a great philathropist, a successful business man and all round nice guy... now let's have a holiday to celebrate my achievements... especially my courage in pursuing my illegal activity against all the odds... and let's not forget my entrepreneurial spirit and drive to succeed... Howard's analogy is paper thin - absurd
"Well, if you lived out here in Colorado there are actually
Indian charities you could work for."
Indians are from India.
Are you referring to Native Americans?
You mean the charity/reservations and the living conditions there?
Dont get me started! It's close to Thanksgiving too!
:grumble:
Oh, and BTW, having visited reservations, I am appalled at the conditions, and whatever the practical solution is, I know we haven't found it. It's a true American disgrace.
I started thinking about this when I was traveling and living in Thailand. You would go to central Thailand and hear about how this is the true Thai land, although the ethnic Thai actually came from southern China, although they are now determining it was not from Hunnan, as long presumed. Then you'd go to the southern northeast plateau, and they might tell you how the Thais stole that area from Cambodia. Except, guess what -- the area wasn't originally settled by ethnic Cambodians. And then in the northern part of the northeast plateau, people would tell you how that area was stolen from the Lao. Except, guess what, they weren't the original settlers, either. And then in parts of northern Thailand they would tell you how the Thais stole that from the Burmese...but those are not necessarily the Burmese of today culturally or ethnically. And then in southern Thailand they will tell you how that area was stolen from the Malay...but they weren't there first either. And all this chess play transpired over thousands of years.
And, no matter where you are from, there's a pretty good chance that "your people" were not the original settlers of that area. This globe of people has been in flux for its entire history. Where do you want to stop the clock????? And why is that spot in time any more "correct" than any other spot in time?
All I'm saying is, it's not as simple an issue as many think it is.
After all, ask the "native" Indians of northern New Mexico and Arizona what they think of their history with the Plains Indians, and how they stole their land. Again, where do you stop the clock of history?
I think one of the reasons we celebrate Columbus Day in the US is that history books and politicians tended to mythologize Columbus and the European explorers who first came to the New World, starting the Westward migration that eventually lead to the formation of the US, while downplaying other aspects of their 'discovery.' It's also a way of expressing patriotism, as well as celebrating the idea of our country being founded by immigrants, which is kind of ironic considering how we treat immigrants these days.
Thanks for sharing the link.
It was worth waiting for all morning.
BTW,
That's why 'I'm your #1 fan'
*Kathy Bates smile*
My husband works for the state, and does not have the day off. But that's only because they voted to use the day off to have the day after Thanksgiving off (another one of those holidays that is questionable to celebrate the way we do). One of my friends is a teacher on one of the reservations here, and their schools have the day off because they celebrate Native American day. Their version of history taught about this day is vastly different from what my kids learn.
People throughout the world throughout history have sough to dominate each others culture. The war for space has been ongoing as long as people have been on the planet. The unfortunate part is that we are no longer a people who have to displace other people in order to compete for food and water. We do it just to be in control, and we know better, yet we still do it. There are still things our government could do to improve this, yet we do not.
Loved the blog, Jason.
Also enjoyed the excerpt from Zinn's Columbus and Western Civilization.
(where's the heart emoticon when you need it??) _/\_
addendum to first post: http://www.un.org/en/events/indigenousday/
chosen to vote out?
My inlaws live only about 20 miles from the dam. We live about 10 hours drive, lol. We see them at least once a year and we try to visit the various NA visitor centers. My dad is a huge buff of western US history, and the whole time I grew up we went on vacations and listened to a lot of great stories about various locations. I personally think "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" by Dee Brown should be required high school history reading.
We like to call it "Invasion" Day.
Mmmmmmmm...no mail delivery today.
First, I think before we condemn Columbus and the people of Columbus' time, we ought to remember that we, today, are living under the pop-mindset of 2012. If you were looking at the New World in 1512 or 1712 or 1812, you -- those of you who are ranting -- would almost certainly have the pop-mindset of that era, rather than the politically correct mindset of the present era. I'm not saying that what was done in previous centuries was right (although on this Buddhist website we have people saying there is no right or wrong). Clearly it wasn't. But we are looking back in hindsight through the lens of 2012.
Second, I refuse to feel personally guilty about an event that happened 148 years ago. I wasn't there. Nor were any of my relatives. Nor anyone I knew. I had nothing to do with it. (I selected this particular date as just one of the great injustices that was done against the Indian people -- the Sand Creek Massacre, here in Colorado).
Third, despite all the easy talk, what are you willing to personally do about it. See, this is where it all breaks down. The old saying that "talk is cheap" is pretty meaningful. For example, let's say that @Zero owns a house in Colorado Springs here in the United States. He is very upset about what was done by Columbus and all of those in the era of Westward Expansion. He takes his family on a little trip out on the High Plains of Colorado and visits the Sand Creek Massacre site and Beecher Island Battleground. He learns about this American Indian history of the state he's living in. Let's see, is he going to give up and donate his house to the Cheyenne Indians of today, pack up, and hop a boat and go back to Europe?
Perhaps each White American should pay an additional tax of $10,000 this year and that combined sum for all Americans should be given to the various Indian tribes and individual Indians who have moved off the reservations. Or, if you say that will never be passed by Congress, go ahead...on your own give $10,000 to some Indian group.
You see, you talk, talk, talk, but I have yet to see any of you offer a single practical suggestion as to what to do about it.
Now, I know, someone is going to say "Well, what can I do about it?" Well, I will just tell you what one of my teachers did about it -- for 3 years she lived on an Indian reservation in Arizona and taught at a school run by the Navajo nation for a pittance compared to what she could have earned in mainstream culture. So, when she rants, I listen.
Oh, and by the way, I have known a number of Indians, and they have referred to themselves as "Indian" or "American Indian". And, in fact, I have heard them say, "I am proud to be an American Indian". I personally have never talked to anyone who referred to themselves as "Native American". I hear the white folks do that.
In the context of Christopher Columbus, I was
just putting the emphasis in the 'Native American' part.
It was to further my point.
("Custard's Last Stand"--that's hilarious! ^_^ ) Karasti, this might be a good time to show the kids Kevin Costner's film, 'Dances With Wolves". It brings history alive, but from a different perspective.
However, to be honest with you, in my lifetime I have seen little (if any) real progress in improving life on the Indian reservations. In fact, I would submit to you that American Indians are the most ignored minority in the United States. You may possibly recall that Bill Clinton, when President (and also after his presidency), attempted to begin some dialog on the topic. It went absolutely nowhere.
I'm not criticizing you or any other specific person. You're right, we can't all do something to solve all the world's problems. But I remember when I was a principal and once a week we would have an all-morning admin meetings. Sometimes we'd solve some problems, come up with some possible strategies, make a plan, whatever. And other days we'd sum up the meeting by saying, "Well, that was a wasted 3 hours. We accomplished nothing."
It's so easy to condemn Columbus and Ferdinand and Isabella...after all they're dead. These rants against them, while perhaps fair, do nothing to solve any issues. Did you notice that throughout this thread, no one said, "Well, to make some amends to the American Indians, perhaps Americans should _____." Or, "To improve the life of American Indians, people could _____."
So how about if everyone who reads this thread comes up with just one practical suggestion about how our country or individuals could do something to improve the situation?
And by the way, on this forum at one time or another, I'm almost sure I've heard people say that Buddhists shouldn't go around condemning others. It's not the Buddhist way. Apparently that's true unless the person being condemned is no longer a popular world figure.
But I will say this, I feel personally responsible to learn the truth about history and humanity - both good and bad - and even if I can't do more than talk about it, I can still verbally, (maybe) financially and (definitely) morally support others who CAN do things to help the cause and educate others further.
But it all begins with talk. Example; Parents talking about what's in their kids' history books and how they don't approve of such BS like Columbus' glorification - could very well bring about change in just a few years, with an organized, concerted effort. Let's be a little more positive about this kind of thing.
Clinton tried to start a dialogue on race, but he went about it a bit ineptly, unfortunately. In any case, the best way to improve rez life is to attract business to those isolated communities, and come up with some form of economic development, or locate businesses or research centers or postal sorting facilities, or anything near those communities so people can get jobs.
Another way is to write your congressbod and urge him/her to beef up law enforcement on the reservations, and to change the laws so non-Natives can't go onto Native land and rape Native women with impunity.
Organize a micro-credit project for a Native community near you. Micro-credit is catching on in Indian Country. If you're a writer, write an article that raises public awareness of the good things the Native communities in your state are doing. There are many ways to help.
Great suggestion.
I'm curious -- what is the rape with impunity issue you're talking about? I haven't heard about that.
@dakini I love Dances with Wolves! My eldest enjoys it but it's a little long for the 10 year old (and the 4 year old will only sit still for about 20 minutes, lol.) I do try to get them to experience different cultures. Not far from here there is a larger NA population, and they do a terrific powwow twice a year that we try to get to. The kids really enjoy the different culture and rituals and dances, and all the costumes and colors. We're lucky that way, even though we are such a rural, in-the-sticks area, we have a lot of cultural activities available thanks to the older generations who have worked hard to pass them down. I try to teach my kids about their heritage, and where they came from, but also about the area they live in and who shares the area with them. My husband adds another layer to that because his experience is more with the Sioux and Mandan tribes and more western history. We try to make sure they are well-rounded, but at the same time you can't focus on some things without leaving out something else.
Anyway, it's a mess. IMO, it was a bad law in the first place. What if the UN said that US law enforcement has no jurisdiction over African Americans? What kind of a law is that??!!