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Scared to be a buddhist.
ZendoLord84
Veteran
It's not paralyzing fear.
However. The more I grow in practise, the more fear I encounter.
A part of me just keeps on resisting the buddhist lifestyle.
Living sober, positive, kind and caring.
It seems I live in a world were these virtues are concidered a weakness.
And.
Now comes the fear part;
Sure i can read sutta's about it's awesome being alone and doing spiritual cultivation.
The ego part of me is very insecure about staring at a blank wall as one of my main saturday night activities.
I think this has to do with not having a sangha, next to this forum.
I'm 28. I figured a lot of stuff out, started my practise when I was 18.
So, life is suffering, buddha is the way out, then you die.
Enlightenment is the goal supreme, and hardly ever attained.
'Emptyness' gives me a random reason to exist.
This is it? Life?
For the next forty years?
This proberly will fade.
Like all thoughts and states of being.
And then it hits me again.
I started my practise to gain a.....bliss I guess.
Boy o Boy I was a naive young fool LOL.
However. The more I grow in practise, the more fear I encounter.
A part of me just keeps on resisting the buddhist lifestyle.
Living sober, positive, kind and caring.
It seems I live in a world were these virtues are concidered a weakness.
And.
Now comes the fear part;
Sure i can read sutta's about it's awesome being alone and doing spiritual cultivation.
The ego part of me is very insecure about staring at a blank wall as one of my main saturday night activities.
I think this has to do with not having a sangha, next to this forum.
I'm 28. I figured a lot of stuff out, started my practise when I was 18.
So, life is suffering, buddha is the way out, then you die.
Enlightenment is the goal supreme, and hardly ever attained.
'Emptyness' gives me a random reason to exist.
This is it? Life?
For the next forty years?
This proberly will fade.
Like all thoughts and states of being.
And then it hits me again.
I started my practise to gain a.....bliss I guess.
Boy o Boy I was a naive young fool LOL.
1
Comments
sometimes mourning takes over. like when you realize you are already dead.
as when your consciousness itself is perceived as an astounding delusion. choice
(delusional) is mildly amusing to play with. In such a case if you embrace loving kindness, compassion, joy and equanimity (equally delusional); a profound feeling
of happiness/joy/bliss takes over. have fun.
I realise i'm DEAD to the fullest.
Completely experienced the mourning.
I guess I have to take a step back and try not to 'grasp' all.
One day at a time thing is wiser.
a reminder that your walk should reflect such.
"Living sober, positive, kind and caring.
It seems I live in a world were these virtues are concidered a weakness. "
Yes, I know. I live in the same world.
I also think I'm out-numbered. What's a Buddhist
to do? hahaha
This program is voluntary. You would'nt
be doing it, if it did'nt make your heart/mind/life
stronger? Whoever thinks these things are a weakness,
dont agree with us. Is'nt that a given?
We still have to show them compassion.
"The ego part of me is very insecure about staring at a blank wall as one of my main saturday night activities. "
I'll have you know that my ass knows how to have a
good time! I meditate some Sat. nights, but not all!
Is making this your main activity required
by your teacher?
"I think this has to do with not having a sangha, next to this forum"
Do you have access? If not, sorry about your luck, Chuck.
Your stuck with us, Chuck.
It's not all that bad.
My avatar name has something to do with the movie fightclub.
Funny how many many many people think I actually am a selfproclaimed Zen master.
(I am tough....just kiddin')
I do fun stuff too.
Kinda stuck in progress right now, so I'm throwing up this ball to see who is going to play with it.
And how.
For the next forty years? ""
You know, the underlying question here is actually a huge one...it's one that we all have to face on this path. It is one that I have faced myself; so i take these statements of yours pretty seriously. So i'm going to get a little deep on this response.
Basically the future that you're looking at here is an inaccurate illusion. Any future that you imagine is illusory. Actually any concept of 'Life', 'life span' and 'death' are conceptualizations that are fundamentally beyond solidity. past, future and present. (and actually, to compound this awesomeness, 'self', 'being' , 'this person that is me, living this life' are also not solid. Realizing this, even just a little bit....it flips the whole world upside down.. the experiences from this alone are beyond what you call bliss. Ecstasy is a better choice of wording, and that is just scratching the surface.
in the last few years, i've begun to think.. If you feel like you're giving something up, then you're just not understanding prajna well enough to find the rewards that kind of offset whatever it is that you're giving up. I eventually started looking at it this way, because i'd have terrible battles with this feeling that I'm depriving myself... I mean that feeling of deprivation is sometimes just as much of an impediment. SO.. rather than looking at it that way, I just explore the practice, and my negative habits sort of begin to fade of their own accord. Then it becomes more: 'I actually dont really need this (specific attachment) anymore'.... rather than 'I shouldnt do this or that'. I think that truly being immune to certain attachments gives an awesomely powerful feeling, rather than a feeling of anemic deprived despair. And that true detachment from habits can only come from waking up, perfecting wisdom. for example, you can force yourself to give up sex, and that is a huge deal... but just that by itself is not really anything special. IMO, its far better to get a very little basic understanding of perfection of wisdom and have sex with your partner and find her/him attractive, than to give up sex for life and sit around thinking that you're better than everybody else for it. (the vimalikirti nirdesa sutra is a good one to read about this... vimalikirti was so vastly enlightened that he somewhat terrified sakyamuni buddha's most skilled desciples and received much respect and agreement from sakyamuni...vimalikirti had a house, and a wife, and children.)
Look, the fully awakened being 'buddha' sakyamuni says that everything that he teaches is initially to get you to exit this burning building. Basically what he says is that he can see us in a very bad place, and we can leave this place, but we don't. he yells and yells for you to leave the horrible burning building, but we can't hear him, we are distracted, etc.
Most of what makes this a burning building is death. Do you really think that what he is promoting is some vanilla, flat, but somewhat less painful version of life, then a pointless death? You clearly have been interested in this for a long time, so I'm sure that some part of you realizes already... Take what ever you think would be the absolute best, most ecstatic payoff of what you secretly daydream that 'enlightenment' is...multiply exactly that by ten, and then you are just barely starting to get the idea. I'm sure that you must have experienced a few awesome states already, perhaps very briefly. Yes, focusing on 'payoff' can end up being a terrible detriment, but don't forget that there is a payoff...the very least of which is the major relief of the constant deep seated pains that are pretty fundamental to life and death existence. I'm talking about pain that we are so used to that we can't imagine being without it.
My advice, check out the perfect wisdom sutras, really suspend disbelief and try to get to the bottom of what they are saying. Definitely the 'diamond' sutra. Definitely the Sandhinirmocana sutra. The larger sutra on perfect wisdom. The vajra samadhi sutra. The Lankavatara. The Heart of perfection of wisdom sutra.The sutra of tathagata's unimaginable state, maybe the vimalikirti nirdesa, maybe the Surangama, etc, etc. Then the later the lotus sutra. These are the real deal holyfield super heavy duty perfect expedients that sakyamuni buddha left for us.
when you read 'em, I'd consider these 3 points of advice also: they are just advice from my own experience.
1 I found out that there are very interesting hidden reasons for the fantastic imagery found in many sutras. He also makes reference to this in the Sandhinirmocana sutra I believe. If they bother you, like offending your sensibility, then just ignore them for the time being and get to the bones of the sutra. The imagery thing used to give me huge headaches trust me.
2 Dont try to ingrain any belief system per se, just read them out of genuine interest and curiosity with a rational but open mind. They aren't so much trying to tell you how to believe at all really. It's way way beyond any belief system.
3 If you don't understand them and are confused, that is totally fine. I advise not to get into commentaries. I think it's much better to concentrate on what does make sense to you than to read misguided commentaries. Even the well meaning ones can't even touch the real scriptures. Believe me, 'genius' is far too small a word to describe what sakyamuni left for us. The real sutras can be a little overwhelming, bewildering and even scary sometimes... I'm really bad at similes but I think it's like being unexpectedly examined and helped by very complex huge and extremely advanced futuristic medical equipment... but you have to allow the equipment to do it's work...
Anyway, I hope that this has given you a different perspective. I think your questions and concerns and thoughts voiced in this post are very valid and understandable.
Seriously.
So let us increase the fear factor as well. :eek:
In our practice, different aspects of our being, karma, overriding aspect, wave of fish - however you like to describe it,
arise.
As you know.
Forget the object, we may have fear of low flying lamas or orgies we missed out on or plain spaghetti.
Find the fear. You know as well as I do its nature. It has no inherent nature.
OK time to find the sauce. Spaghetti monster, you is gonna die . . .
I will look into your replies, some require some meditation and study
If I wanted to quit I would never got this far
How can I quit life?
Sometimes this stuff arises.
And then it's gone.
OK. So now what? Is there any going back, any escape? Would pigging out on a quart of Ben & Jerry's ice cream help? Would finding a more placid hobby help? Maybe so ...
But probably not. So... gently but firmly put one meditation foot in front of the other and see what happens.
at first I thought that to that it was a weakness an thats how people would see it,but trust me there is no need to feel weak but because you are kind,forgiving and understanding it is what makes you stronger then those who refuse to be and think they cannot be.It takes someone who is strong to forgive,to understand,to see the bright side even in darkness.You accept these things and do not let hate nor people change your ways towards them or the world.That is what I admire about Buddhism. Don't be ashamed of the good in you,ever.Just because your all these things though.Does not mean that you need to be walked over and it does not make you weak.Stick up for yourself when you need to.There is nothing wrong with that.I'm sure even Buddha would agree.And just because you live your life by something does not mean it should consume your entire life.Make it a part of it but don't make it your whole life. By the way have fun. I think Buddhism is also about enjoying life to its fullest.You can still go out and party every now and then.You can still do things you enjoy and have fun doing them.Enjoy yourself. Life is short. Make the best of it!
Thoreau.
you are not alone my friend.
look around you. most of my friends are busy driving their kids around and working long hours to pay off the mortgages. That is it? that is life?
buddha gave us the facts of life, you may disagree with him.
if so, go try other life styles.
i can tell you from my personal experience, in the end it boils down to what buddha said.
Im guessin you live in the West like me. Your happiness is the most important thing ever, you are the only one living in your body and the only one who will experience what you experince so you have to enjoy it. If you feel being a devout Buddhist is causing you upset and grief then i would suggst relaxing a bit and only adopt the teachings you feel can benefit your life circumstances (really sorry if that statement upsets anyone) if anyone asks me "are you Buddhist" i usually reply with "i try an adopt some of the philosophys yes" On a final note if your from Britain i too get frustrated with trying to be sober coz if you go out socialising it nearly always involves drink and if you say no tar ill have a J2O lol they wont rest until they force it down ur gullet
I wish you all the best and i hope i have lightened your burden a wee bit.
Yeah i live in the west:). We're neighbours, im from the netherlands.
I try to avoid the topic as much as possible
There is no back.
I tried that when i was 22,23.
Pretending buddhism never happened.
I started seeing signs everywere, (no hallucinations).
Suddenly started meeting reallife buddhists.
No.
There is no back.
I continue my practise. For i am slowly becoming my practise.
It helps discussing, adressing, fears and roadbumps tough.
Thank you for your reply.
And for the insights and experience.
So I later came across Nichiren-Shu, almost by accident, which is another Japanese school of Buddhism with a chanting practice, that is based on the Lotus Sutra. I only bring it up to say that there are other ways to practice being a Buddhist than just staring at a wall.
I do whole-heartedly agree that there is no back, and that in itself can be a bit depressing. The distance between myself and my non-Buddhist friends and family seems to grow... sometimes I have the worst time trying to explain things to them. I've never been much of a drinker, so that precept is so easy for me it doesn't even count. Trying to explain why I'm becoming a vegetarian is very hard, because for my family it just comes out of left-field.
I guess im making progress if most are experiencing the same.