Activism

Theswingisyellow

As a Buddhist do you feel engaging in social or political problems is important? If in the United states of the 1850's, would you be an abolitionist? In Germany in the 1940's, would you hide a Jew? If you saw injustice today, would you stand against it? Is this within the buddhadharma to challenge injustice?

Straight_Man

The problem with injustice as a word is that in practice what is construed as injustice is A) Personally subjective usually; What to do is also subjectively defined usually. Other than that, if I had a way to help the world become more united in ending what I perceive as injustice through objective means, yes, I would.

Theswingisyellow

It doesn't have to subjective at all-enslaving or murdering people is hardly subjective.

"Other than that, if I had a way to help the world become more united in ending what I perceive as injustice through objective means, yes, I would."
I agree

vinlyn

Theswingisyellow said:

As a Buddhist do you feel engaging in social or political problems is important? If in the United states of the 1850's, would you be an abolitionist? In Germany in the 1940's, would you hide a Jew? If you saw injustice today, would you stand against it? Is this within the buddhadharma to challenge injustice?

One has to choose his/her battles. In my time I've been active in the NAACP and the Southern Poverty Law Center, as well as a few other organizations. Many donations over the years to various causes. Personal actions sometimes when I have been able to affect change.

But I certainly haven't stood for all worthy causes.

Theswingisyellow

@vinlyn thank you.
I would really like to know if this idea of going against injustice can be found in the suttas. Are there examples? Can one find this being promoted? I ask as my practice has promoted in me compassion and the idea of our indivisibility, this of course, runs counter to what we see in the world and how governments act. I am not naive, I just didn't suddenly realize that the world was awful or cruel, maybe I find myself not wanting to contribute to that terrible reality anymore. Maybe one should point it out. I look to my sons and ask what do I leave for them? Those are just my thoughts. Thank you for listening.

Nirvana

I don't know of a particular sutta that answers your question thematically head-on, but I think the Noble Eightfold Path is absolutely steeped in the search for justice and truth. Is not right livelihood good activism —taking on a job with earnest resolve to do right? Right speech and right action are two others very much wed to just and good activities in this world. The list goes on.

Justice is the human enterprise par excellence, for it is not a given in nature. The activist takes on systems that are ends in themselves; these systems end up hurting and exploiting others to keep above water. Religious teachers point the way, first through ourselves towards integration with the truth; and then, empowered, we may continue on the journey towards pursuing justice for others. Any selfish person can pursue his own interests, but it takes an "enlightened" person to take on "the system."

I can only speculate what I might have done in the past. In my experience, however, I've found that people who are "true believers" in some just cause quite often have huge blind spots. Persons such as Gandhi, who are centered in prayer and meditation, seem to me to have a better handle on things, though. It's the old Marx vs Tolstoy debate: Whether the militancy of a Marx is the Way or the passive/aggressive stoicism of a Tolstoy or a Gandhi is better. I'm sure it depends on the status quo.

I do believe that most people who care about justice are content to lead a calm and quiet life, treating their afflicted neighbors as best they can.

Dakini

Theswingisyellow said:

As a Buddhist do you feel engaging in social or political problems is important? If in the United states of the 1850's, would you be an abolitionist? In Germany in the 1940's, would you hide a Jew? If you saw injustice today, would you stand against it? Is this within the buddhadharma to challenge injustice?

I kind of thought that this is what the exercise of compassion was all about. Maybe it's just me. :-/

DaltheJigsaw

As a Buddhist do you feel engaging in social or political problems is important? If in the United states of the 1850's, would you be an abolitionist? In Germany in the 1940's, would you hide a Jew? If you saw injustice today, would you stand against it? Is this within the buddhadharma to challenge injustice?

I try to engage social or political problems through my website/blog - http://www.leonbasin.weebly.com - I am not sure if I would be a abolitionist, I suppose it depends what type of environment I would have been born in? - In 1940's, would I hide a Jew? Lol - I'm a Jew, so... - If I saw injustice today, would I stand against it? - Without a doubt, I try my best to do what I can.

BhikkhuJayasara

Theswingisyellow said:

As a Buddhist do you feel engaging in social or political problems is important? If in the United states of the 1850's, would you be an abolitionist? In Germany in the 1940's, would you hide a Jew? If you saw injustice today, would you stand against it? Is this within the buddhadharma to challenge injustice?

I use to be a big activist. I was a leader in my state Libertarian party, would go out on the streets helping people to learn their rights, debate with statists(republicans and democrats) about freedom and the like. I also had/have a strong sense of justice and what is "right". I was a big idealist in this regard. I thought maybe I could change the world.

then I really began to practice.. and I saw the ego involved with all of that. I began to see that the world is the world, always has been(if you are a student of history, you will see that) and always will be.

Then listening to an Ajahn Brahm talk he made this quote, which really was the lynch pin that changed my life.

" The Buddha did not change the world.. he made peace with the conditions in it"

first time I heard that it hit me like a ton of bricks. That was about a year or two ago. Since then as I continue to practice I stepped down as chair in the party, in fact I don't deal with politics at all anymore, I also don't bother listening to the news and all the same silly stuff that just occurs over and over. There really is nothing "new" that occurs that hasn't happened a million times before.

I have begun to withdraw from the world the more I practice, and I see that as a good thing. Few things matter to me much anymore except dhamma. Everything that I held dear before was just agitation and anxiety. I'm learning to let go..

" If you let go a little, you will have a little peace. If you let go a lot, you will have a lot of peace. If you let go completely, you will have complete peace." - Ajahn Chah

but that does not mean I don't attempt to help others and do good in the world.. I just know there is a limit to that and stick to what I can do. I think the starfish poem sums it up well -

Once upon a time there was a wise man
who used to go to the ocean
to do his writing.
He had a habit of walking
on the beach
before he began his work.
One day he was walking along
the shore.

As he looked down the beach,
he saw a human
figure moving like a dancer.
He smiled to himself to think
of someone who would
dance to the day.
So he began to walk faster
to catch up.

As he got closer, he saw
that it was a young man
and the young man wasn't dancing,
but instead he was reaching
down to the shore,
picking up something
and very gently throwing it
into the ocean.

As he got closer he called out,
"Good morning! What are you doing?"
The young man paused,
looked up and replied,
"Throwing starfish in the ocean."
"I guess I should have asked,

why are you throwing starfish in the ocean?"
"The sun is up and the tide is going out.
And if I don't throw them in they'll die."
"But, young man, don't you realize that
there are miles and miles of beach
and starfish all along it.

You can't possibly make a difference!"
The young man listened politely.
Then bent down, picked up another starfish
and threw it into the sea,
past the breaking waves and said-
"It made a difference for that one."

you cannot stop the whole mass of dukkha that is samsara, but you can do your own little part to help others.

But what I know now.. is something that the Buddha taught, and that Ajahn Chah said so simply -


"The greatest gift that you can give to this world is to make the mind still" :- Ven Ajahn Chah


The greatist gift is not "changing the world" or " doing something" to help all beings... it's to make YOUR OWN MIND still.


Five faultless gifts

"There are these five gifts, five great gifts — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. Which five?

"There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones, abandoning the taking of life, abstains from taking life. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the first gift, the first great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans...

"Furthermore, abandoning taking what is not given (stealing), the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking what is not given. In doing so...

"Furthermore, abandoning illicit sex, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from illicit sex. In doing so..

"Furthermore, abandoning lying, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from lying. In doing so....

"Furthermore, abandoning the use of intoxicants, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking intoxicants. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fifth gift, the fifth great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans."


so in short.. the greatest gift you can give the world.. is to practice dhamma...

Vastmind

I do feel it is important. I'm still in the game.

The KKK is planning a public event
here in a couple of weeks, and I will be a part of
the peaceful protest of them.
I also take part in the pro-choice and
gay/civil rights issues here.

My ego says I owe it to my children,
and future generations.

BhanteLucky

Theswingisyellow said:

Is this within the buddhadharma to challenge injustice?

Here are lots of interesting links to various activist Buddhist issues and resources.
http://www.dharmanet.org/lcengaged.htm
I couldn't find any sutta or sutra references at all... it all seems to be a movement inspired by Thích Nhất Hạnh, and not based so much on scripture.
I'm very impressed by these "Engaged Buddhists"... they have so much more energy and passion than I do.

Nirvana

@Jayantha, I really liked your "answer" above, which for me puts a lot of meat on the bones of "Get your own house in order first." Not that what you're saying (nor the awesome Buddhist suttas) could be reduced to that. Thank You for that beautiful post!
----------------
Back to the Marx vs. Tolstoy (or Lenin vs. Gandhi) debate I touched on earlier! To resist evil in a militant way is to enter into that evil oneself and to be stained by it. Jesus, on the other hand, taught "Resist not evil" and "Turn the other cheek." There's a big difference between confronting injustice in such a way as to add coal to the fire and make the oppressor even a worse devil than before and just patiently standing your ground against oppressors in a nonviolent way. (Not that Buddhists need to be reminded of nonviolence, but violent thoughts can be insidious and creep in unawares if we are not on guard.) The bitterness and/or prideful willfulness that is due to creep in when we confront injustice in a "principled" way can be sheer poison for everyone.

I am no fan of principle, per se. I believe it to be, like Samuel Johnson's description of patriotism, more often the last refuge of scoundrels than what it etymologically means: first thing(s). More often than not, when people appeal to principle they are appealing to a remote authority or ground that puts people "in their place." The fact is that we all come at the whole piece of pie from different angles; but that should not entail that anyone should have to be sent away from the table without at least a taste of its crust.

Prophets and Buddhas and Avatars don't teach principles, they teach ATTITUDES (positions, postures). They posit Truths and indicate what direction that Truth is pointing in. Principles are the stuff of what mathematics and logic are made; one hopes that ones truths are principled, but that the other guy doesn't continually bang him over the head with a stick just 'cuz he doesn't see things eye-to-eye.

Theswingisyellow

JamestheGiant said:

Theswingisyellow said:

Is this within the buddhadharma to challenge injustice?

Here are lots of interesting links to various activist Buddhist issues and resources.
http://www.dharmanet.org/lcengaged.htm
I couldn't find any sutta or sutra references at all... it all seems to be a movement inspired by Thích Nhất Hạnh, and not based so much on scripture.
I'm very impressed by these "Engaged Buddhists"... they have so much more energy and passion than I do.

James thank you for the link!

Theswingisyellow

@Jayantha-Thank you for your thoughtful post. I do agree in most that we cannot take on the whole mass of samsara and that the world for the most part will be what it is. It is certainly better for one's practice and peace of mind not to concern oneself with the ways of the world and I do agree that ones state of mind (learning to be still) and one's direct practice with others can have enormous benefit for all concerned. I wonder if everyone held an attitude of non-involvement in the world how much worse things may be. If no one speaks to injustice or evil, is that just not passive consent? One's practice is here and now. What we do resonates through our children and their children. I personally can see how anxiety provoking or agitating these problems may be and in the end our good intentions may have negative unintended consequences, but I feel compelled to at least try.
All the best,
Todd

BhikkhuJayasara

Theswingisyellow said:

@Jayantha-Thank you for your thoughtful post. I do agree in most that we cannot take on the whole mass of samsara and that the world for the most part will be what it is. It is certainly better for one's practice and peace of mind not to concern oneself with the ways of the world and I do agree that ones state of mind (learning to be still) and one's direct practice with others can have enormous benefit for all concerned. I wonder if everyone held an attitude of non-involvement in the world how much worse things may be. If no one speaks to injustice or evil, is that just not passive consent? One's practice is here and now. What we do resonates through our children and their children. I personally can see how anxiety provoking or agitating these problems may be and in the end our good intentions may have negative unintended consequences, but I feel compelled to at least try.
All the best,
Todd

If everyone held that attitude of dhamma practice and non-involvement, there would BE no injustice or evil to stand up against . of course we live in the state of samsara however so there will always be people driven by their attachments, aversions, and ignorance, so there will always be those who "do bad" and those who " do good"

Winning gives birth to hostility. Losing, one lies down in pain. The calmed lie down with ease, having set winning & losing aside.

may your compulsion lead you to success, until you are ready to let it go

Theswingisyellow

Can I still have that drive and not hold on to it?

Jason

Theswingisyellow said:

As a Buddhist do you feel engaging in social or political problems is important? If in the United states of the 1850's, would you be an abolitionist? In Germany in the 1940's, would you hide a Jew? If you saw injustice today, would you stand against it? Is this within the buddhadharma to challenge injustice?

Yes and yes.

genkaku

Based on the number of people I have known who threw themselves into activism and then came to Buddhist practice because they were somehow unfulfilled, I think there is a small trick to it all. Agreeing or disagreeing with the throng that may trumpet activism is not so much the point. Overarching virtue and righteousness are not the point.

The point is not to do something in order to make something else happen: The point is to do something (activist or otherwise) and then see what happens. Hope all you like, plan all you like, be as outraged as you like, shape good intentions all you like ... then act ... and see what happens.

Make corrections as necessary.

BhanteLucky

genkaku said:

......I think there is a small trick to it all....

The point is not to do something in order to make something else happen: The point is to do something (activist or otherwise) and then see what happens. Hope all you like, plan all you like, be as outraged as you like, shape good intentions all you like ... then act ... and see what happens.

Wow great, that's a good subtle distinction. That really would make a lot of difference.
Seeing what happens, instead of being wedded to a hoped-for outcome.

Jeffrey

The problem with activism is that you cannot fix the samsaric world. So it isn't satisfying unless it is keeping in mind that the goal is enlightenment for all beings. But if it's just 'me right' 'you wrong' then that is just samsaric.

seeker242

Theswingisyellow said:

As a Buddhist do you feel engaging in social or political problems is important? If in the United states of the 1850's, would you be an abolitionist? In Germany in the 1940's, would you hide a Jew? If you saw injustice today, would you stand against it? Is this within the buddhadharma to challenge injustice?

It's always within the Buddha dharma to give of yourself help others. As far as scriptural references go, anything concerning Dana I think would be appropriate. Hiding a jew in 1940s I think could certainly be considered an act of dana.

Theswingisyellow said:

Can I still have that drive and not hold on to it?

If the driving motivation is not "for myself" but for the benefit of all, I don't see why not. Giving of yourself to help others is the essence of the Dana paramita. Dana need not be limited to just gifts of materiel things or money.

Jayantha said:

so in short.. the greatest gift you can give the world.. is to practice dhamma...

Certainly true! But giving of yourself to help others, is practicing dharma!

Theswingisyellow

Wonderful as always! Thanks everyone for your insightful and thoughtful replys.