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Is intuition rational?
lobster
Crusty Veteran
Dakini said in another thread
But the interesting thing with this mystical component in Buddhism is that it's tempered with a lot of very down-to-earth observation, logic, and discipline. So it's not exclusively mystical; it also has a very rational aspect. Kind of yin and yang in quality, isn't it?By inclination we do seem drawn to the qualities within Buddhism that resonate with our preferences. For balance and awakening do we just need to work from our side or do we have to allow the arising of an integrated and largely different perspective? Is the rational answer the same as the intuitive . . .
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I think listening to oneself is actually being mindful of one's self plus listening to one's surroundings. My feeling is that this practice allows for absorption of things that we cannot really absorb if we are not mindful. Maybe I am not talking about intuition on a Christ-like level, but I think you can see this type of thing in everyday life, with people you know. For instance, you know people who are very self-absorbed and who are NOT listening/absorbing things around them. They are the kind of person who talks for lengths during conversation, either not giving the other person a chance to communicate or not listening if they do. This person doesn't have a clue how anyone else around them feels. They are not being intuitive at all. They are so busy with their monkey minds that they don't even know how they (themselves) feel. They are not rational with their thought processes.
However, I don't know that being rational alone is what makes one intuitive. Or maybe, being super-rational is it. It is a good question.
I can "read" most people - tell what they are thinking, know if they are lying, sometimes I can have whole scenarios flash in my mind in an instant, and just "know" a lot about a person and their motivations.
Is this intuition " rational " ? Nope- not in the least. But is it real? Yes, for me it is.
LOL Yeah sometimes it is.... but sometimes, not so much.
Kind of hurtful when you just "know" someone you would normally trust/love/respect is lying, or is deceiving you in some way.
So maybe we can gain insight into which components we tend towards and will be balanced by? Personally I rate intuition above the rational as a decision making tool. I feel there is also truth in the idea that intuition is related to bodhicitta as jeffery said.
Many thanks guys.
Life does tend to be samsaric in that way....disillusionment happens.
But even defining 'intuition' is difficult. There is also Kant's 'non-intuitive immediate knowledge' - which describes genuine 'mystical' knowledge. This is the idea that what we learn by self-examination, meditation etc., is not intuitive but (where it really is knowledge) it is 'knowledge by identity'. Many scientists assume that Buddhism and so forth are all about intuition, not immediate knowledge, but this is to sell it short. Intuition allows doubt, while knowledge is the absence of doubt.
@Dakini asked:
" True. But then...you would want to know, if that's what really was happening, wouldn't you? Think about the people who don't have your level of intuition. They'd end up being deceived by a loved/respected one, and then the disappointment would be even more bitter.
Life does tend to be samsaric in that way....disillusionment happens.
Well, there are many times in conversations and interactions with people that we are told (or tell others) those so-called "little white lies" -- or avoid saying things altogether that might hurt feelings or insult others....
But being more than a little intuitive ( in some circles AKA "empathic") little white lies are often seen through for what they are; and keeping silent usually does nothing to stop me from knowing what one is really thinking.
So there is an unspoken truth there to be dealt with, and, as we all know, sometimes the truth - whether about others or ourselves - ain't pretty.
When it comes to beloved family members and very very close friends, I tend to block all the intuitive feelings I can. Not because I don't want to 'know' if something bad should happen, or if they are keeping secrets from me.... because those feelings come through anyhow, because they are strong enough.
But all the other little things in daily life and interaction, all the other little comments, (you know- Does this dress make me look fat? kind of stuff ), I force myself to accept at face value, unless an exceptionally strong 'warning bell' goes off.
Would you say we recognise the pattern? That would make it quite rational. It seems perhaps, it is a subconscious or superconscious recognition that we become aware of but not the underlying or over-layered patterns . . .?
But, as Lobster asked: Is the rational answer the same as the intuitive . . .? '
Great question and I've had a few debates about the answer. I'd say that it is, but only where it is genuine intuition and not self-delusion, and genuine rationality and not self-confusing sophistry. These things can be difficult to tell apart.
Another issue related to intuition is the avoidance of dukkha. On every level, including the intuitional, we are being told to avoid dukkha . . . do we avoid it by embracing its fruition?
:coffee:
You equate intuition with irrationality? Apart from rational laughter what can we intuit from this? :rolleyes:
However, I think intuition is always correct. Because intuition is before mind.
Intuition is unformed, interesting. So now we are describing something outside of subconscious, superconscious and would perhaps be the manifestation of aspects of the non arising . . . so to speak?
We might think of intuition as algorithms that process information unconsciously or automatically. That's why they are like instinct and so immediate.
I would say intuition is rational in the sense that intuition is concerned with practical matters. Practical matters are not trans-rational or mystical.
As an intuitive thinker the main issue to me is to use the rational mind to sort out my intuitions in order to make more sense of them and to differentiate a genuine intuition from self generated wishful thinking.
I would suggest from experience, that intuition does indeed arise from meditation practice. For example it is perfectly possible to follow ones intuition as a practice. Something I have done, though not from a Buddhist stand.
Maybe others are aware of Buddhist practice to develop intuition?
Apples & oranges.
Rational thought stays within our predictable identity constructs whereas intuition doesn't.
And there's a kind of positive feedback when our intuitions prove to be correct - we're more likely to trust our unconscious with decision making / assessment.
I don't know if intuition is rational per se, but I'd say that intuition and rationality have areas of overlap in terms of progress on the path, especially where mindfulness is concerned. For example, from The Way of Mindfulness: The Satipatthana Sutta and Its Commentary: And: So in one sense, I think it can be said that the rational answer the same as the intuitive, at least in the context of the contemplative balance reached between intuition (concentration) and rationality (insight) that can be developed within the practice of satipatthana meditation.
What does that mean? :scratch:
Intuitionally this is wrong
Even being wrong is sometimes right
Just like rain on a parade
:wave: