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Alcohol Substitute
Seph
Veteran
Alcohol Substitute
Many people make a vow to abstain from
alcohol, often citing religious reasons. (Often religious people might use alcohol as an issue of judgment. I know there is a tension
between the Evangelical and Catholics on this issue - among others - and Muslims also come to mind.)
There was an Evangelical wedding my
wife and I were invited to several years ago that was quite the
experience; one we'll never forget.
No alcohol.
None.
No cash bar. No open
bar. No wine on the tables, but grape juice for the toasts. Don't get
me wrong. It isn't that I need alcohol to have fun. It's not that I
need alcohol to celebrate. It's that there wasn't really any
celebrating. Strictly controlled speeches. No music. No dancing.
It was like fun
was replaced with fear.
That is the point that haunts me to this day, and has heavily
affected a decision I made last summer on holiday (August 2012). I
promised myself to give up drink. No, there was no event or
embarrassment that initiated it. Just a point I came to in my
personal journey towards solace and compassion.
However,
I have zero tolerance for using this promise for any degree of
attention. We all know these people. At some celebration or social
event they decide to make it about their abstinence or their belief, at the passive judgement and potential guilt of others. No, that was
never the purpose for me. I would have no difficulty with a glass of
wine at a toast or social engagement should it merit it. (And
incidentally this made me appreciate and savor the tastes more than
before).
I know
what you're thinking because I thought it myself. “That's
not making a vow to abstain from alcohol”.
Maybe
we should explore some traditional understandings or assumptions
about 'vows'. Many of our “Western Traditions” or beliefs or
religions – like the Evangelical, Catholic, or Muslim mentioned
earlier – are ethical systems governed by rules. They are based on
obedience to regulations and consequences. Failure or disobedience comes with
moral guilt and fear of punishment. Ultimately, whether intentionally or not, it is a system of fear - and in turn - punishment. Taking a vow of alcohol abstinence in this tradition can only end in a fear of failure. There are no degrees or gradations allowed, for its purpose is not focused on personal growth or improvement, because improvement is an ongoing process, and process involves growth, and growth involves failure.
I
don't believe this is spiritually healthy.
In the Mindfulness tradition
the practices governing ethical behaviour are primarily concerned
with shaping personal character. If one falls short of the promise,
they simply take note of the shortcoming and vow to do better on the
next occasion, without the feeling of incompetence or moral guilt.
This
particular way of approaching ethical conduct invites the individual
to act morally – not to avoid punishment
(I don't run a red traffic light because I'm afraid of getting a
ticket, but because I understand the danger I put myself and others
in), but for the more positive and constructive purpose of refining
one's character and promoting the well-being of the world (solace and
compassion). This Mindfulness tradition uses neither the stick nor
the carrot. (I am not given a reward for my good behaviour).
Making a vow in these two traditions involve drastically different functionalities.
I
suppose my 'vow of alcohol abstinence' was more one of moderation and refraining from abuse. But the more I thought about
it, the more I came to realize it was closer to Buddhism's 5th
precept:
“I shall endeavor not to consume
toxins.”
Alcohol is not
necessarily a poison, but it can be. However, there are a great many
mind-inflicting toxins out there.
Historically, the
precept to refrain from consuming toxins referred specifically to the
use of alcohol, but the intent of this principle was simply to
diminish the destructive effects of drunkenness. The use of alcohol
can obviously affect the ability to think clearly, but alcohol
isn't the only substance that can affect our ability to think clearly. Adhering to the
spirit of this precept would necessarily mean becoming aware of any
substance that could impair our mental and bodily functions, such as
tobacco and mind-altering drugs.
Promising
to observe this precept means nothing less than monitoring the things
we allow into our bodies and into our minds.
Guarding our minds
from intoxication and toxicity would necessarily include being aware
of the kinds of information we take in. Gossip, slander, toxic people, poisonous attitudes, and some media. (Is watching Simon Cowell degrade and humiliate hopeful young artists and singers really entertainment? What does it say about you if you enjoy this?)
Religion can be a
dangerous addiction.
Religiosity is a
consumable toxin. And for those who would make this vow of
alcohol/toxin abstinence – especially for religious reasons – I
would advise them to search deeply and tread carefully.
Do not replace one
with another more difficult to abstain from and near impossible to
identify or be aware of. In fact, one could argue that Religiosity
has a built-in system to keep its addicts blind to their affliction –
fear of punishment and moral guilt. Perpetually conditioned to believe themselves undeserving and inadequate.
For me, these past six months have been yet another exercise in approaching the Mu Portal; freeing myself from the fetters that shackle and bind me.
I don't think is it overly important whether we take this 'vow' to not consume toxins, but I think it is extremely important that we take an inventory of toxins within our daily lives. Alcohol would seem to be the lest of our worries.
Many people make a vow to abstain from
alcohol, often citing religious reasons. (Often religious people might use alcohol as an issue of judgment. I know there is a tension
between the Evangelical and Catholics on this issue - among others - and Muslims also come to mind.)
There was an Evangelical wedding my
wife and I were invited to several years ago that was quite the
experience; one we'll never forget.
No alcohol.
None.
No cash bar. No open
bar. No wine on the tables, but grape juice for the toasts. Don't get
me wrong. It isn't that I need alcohol to have fun. It's not that I
need alcohol to celebrate. It's that there wasn't really any
celebrating. Strictly controlled speeches. No music. No dancing.
It was like fun
was replaced with fear.
That is the point that haunts me to this day, and has heavily
affected a decision I made last summer on holiday (August 2012). I
promised myself to give up drink. No, there was no event or
embarrassment that initiated it. Just a point I came to in my
personal journey towards solace and compassion.
However,
I have zero tolerance for using this promise for any degree of
attention. We all know these people. At some celebration or social
event they decide to make it about their abstinence or their belief, at the passive judgement and potential guilt of others. No, that was
never the purpose for me. I would have no difficulty with a glass of
wine at a toast or social engagement should it merit it. (And
incidentally this made me appreciate and savor the tastes more than
before).
I know
what you're thinking because I thought it myself. “That's
not making a vow to abstain from alcohol”.
Maybe
we should explore some traditional understandings or assumptions
about 'vows'. Many of our “Western Traditions” or beliefs or
religions – like the Evangelical, Catholic, or Muslim mentioned
earlier – are ethical systems governed by rules. They are based on
obedience to regulations and consequences. Failure or disobedience comes with
moral guilt and fear of punishment. Ultimately, whether intentionally or not, it is a system of fear - and in turn - punishment. Taking a vow of alcohol abstinence in this tradition can only end in a fear of failure. There are no degrees or gradations allowed, for its purpose is not focused on personal growth or improvement, because improvement is an ongoing process, and process involves growth, and growth involves failure.
I
don't believe this is spiritually healthy.
In the Mindfulness tradition
the practices governing ethical behaviour are primarily concerned
with shaping personal character. If one falls short of the promise,
they simply take note of the shortcoming and vow to do better on the
next occasion, without the feeling of incompetence or moral guilt.
This
particular way of approaching ethical conduct invites the individual
to act morally – not to avoid punishment
(I don't run a red traffic light because I'm afraid of getting a
ticket, but because I understand the danger I put myself and others
in), but for the more positive and constructive purpose of refining
one's character and promoting the well-being of the world (solace and
compassion). This Mindfulness tradition uses neither the stick nor
the carrot. (I am not given a reward for my good behaviour).
Making a vow in these two traditions involve drastically different functionalities.
I
suppose my 'vow of alcohol abstinence' was more one of moderation and refraining from abuse. But the more I thought about
it, the more I came to realize it was closer to Buddhism's 5th
precept:
“I shall endeavor not to consume
toxins.”
Alcohol is not
necessarily a poison, but it can be. However, there are a great many
mind-inflicting toxins out there.
Historically, the
precept to refrain from consuming toxins referred specifically to the
use of alcohol, but the intent of this principle was simply to
diminish the destructive effects of drunkenness. The use of alcohol
can obviously affect the ability to think clearly, but alcohol
isn't the only substance that can affect our ability to think clearly. Adhering to the
spirit of this precept would necessarily mean becoming aware of any
substance that could impair our mental and bodily functions, such as
tobacco and mind-altering drugs.
Promising
to observe this precept means nothing less than monitoring the things
we allow into our bodies and into our minds.
Guarding our minds
from intoxication and toxicity would necessarily include being aware
of the kinds of information we take in. Gossip, slander, toxic people, poisonous attitudes, and some media. (Is watching Simon Cowell degrade and humiliate hopeful young artists and singers really entertainment? What does it say about you if you enjoy this?)
Religion can be a
dangerous addiction.
Religiosity is a
consumable toxin. And for those who would make this vow of
alcohol/toxin abstinence – especially for religious reasons – I
would advise them to search deeply and tread carefully.
Do not replace one
with another more difficult to abstain from and near impossible to
identify or be aware of. In fact, one could argue that Religiosity
has a built-in system to keep its addicts blind to their affliction –
fear of punishment and moral guilt. Perpetually conditioned to believe themselves undeserving and inadequate.
For me, these past six months have been yet another exercise in approaching the Mu Portal; freeing myself from the fetters that shackle and bind me.
I don't think is it overly important whether we take this 'vow' to not consume toxins, but I think it is extremely important that we take an inventory of toxins within our daily lives. Alcohol would seem to be the lest of our worries.
14
Comments
This reminds me of something I've noticed since moving to this Catholic-rich area that I live in years and years ago. (Not to pick on Catholics-- I am married into them and love them.) This is an example of what I see as following a religious rule just so you can say you follow it, even though you are not experiencing the true purpose of the rule. During Lent, Catholics (at least in my area) give up meat on Fridays as a form of penance. But what they do is swarm to Red Lobster and other restaurants to feast themselves on expensive lobster and seafood dinners (and often plenty of alcohol). Of course, not every single one of them is having an expensive dinner, but the point is clear. Nobody is really experiencing penance from my observations.
It really depends on the tradition, how it is communicated to you, and how you approach it.
From the tradition I came from Great Lent is seen as an opportunity for spiritual growth through a period of intense inner spiritual reflection and asceticism where worldly pursuits are greatly reduced. This is beyond one's standard or normal spiritual practices, and it is not easy or supposed to be. One is advised that if you aren't struggling spiritually during this period then you are not approaching it with the correct motivation or spirit.
However, it is not an impossible task as the Church provides support through its services and sacraments working towards the feast of Pascha or Easter. I particularly like the evening Vespers services for their solemnity, and the Akathist to the Theotokos or Mother of God is very beautiful indeed.
Last Sunday was the Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee, and the parable in Luke 18:9-14 reminds us to avoid being critical or judgmental of others.
As it is chanted in the Church:
Let us flee from the pride of the Pharisee!
And learn humility from the Publican's tears!
Let us cry to our Savior,
Have mercy on us,
Only merciful One.
Anyway, I will from time to time be attending these services with my family and friends this season. I might even keep the fast too.
orthodoxwiki.org/Great_Lent
A lot of it sounds very similar to Thich Nhat Hanh's "Fifth Mindfulness Training": (his take on the Fifth Precept) http://dharma.ncf.ca/introduction/precepts/precept-5.html
Je Tsongkhapa demonstrated the Importance of Pratimoksha and morale discipline as an integral part of Buddhadharma it is often said that with the Body of morale discipline we shall wield the axe of wisdom that will cut away at the root of Ignorance, These things act in succession and are mutually dependent upon one and other in order to take one to the other side.
As our morale discipline falters our defilements increase and we become like farmers throwing poisonous seeds amongst their crops, No good can come from engaging in non virtue and this non virtue only arises from a mind which is uncontrolled and unmindful of the consequences of the future.
Alcohol and other such intoxicants are the best way to become unmindful and as a consequence it is much easier for our bad habits to arise and lead us to scatter more poison seeds that will inevitably result in poisonous fruit in the future.
Je Tsongkhapa observed his morale discipline purely throughout his life more thoroughly then worldly people would protect their body, but the body of this life is only very temporary and Buddha says that it is our morale discipline in the past that has given rise to this precious human rebirth therefore it is far more important to protect the body of morale discipline.
I did want to disagree with the notion that alcohol is not a poison. In the bottle not as much, maybe. Once you ingest it, it is. A small percent of alcohol is metabolized via your breathing and sweating. But most of it is metabolized in the digestive system, in which enzymes in your body turn the alcohol into acetaldehyde, which is indeed a poison. Because of that your body stops it's normal digestive process in order to process the alcohol first in an attempt to rid the body from the poison. That's the main reason people who drink a lot gain so much weight. Not simply from the extra calories in the alcohol, but because most often people eat when they are drinking, and the body stops digesting the food in order to process the alcohol. Then the body doesn't metabolize the food properly and it causes a higher % of that food to be stored as fat within the body.
@TheEccentric Alcohol just is. It's not good or bad inherently. It's no different than caffeine or nicotine or giant peanut butter cups or flaming hot cheetos, as far as why people like it and drink it. If you think about it, much of what we consume, and spend our time doing is entirely pointless. We all still do it.
And no, I don't know any of "these" people, who make an event all about their abstinence. You know, the Native American community makes all their events alcohol-free, and it has nothing to do with morality. It's about survival of the species. And people from outside the community who are involved and supportive of the community forego alcohol in order to support the effort to be alcohol-free. They don't get all judgmental about it. It's about showing respect.
I agree with Silouan about how Lent, and other disciplines/vows/abstaining occasion an opportunity for reflection, and a deepening of one's commitment to the spiritual path. These things are tools in the right hands. In the wrong hands, they can be counterproductive.
If I had a wedding, there would be no alcohol, simply because it wouldn't occur to me to serve it, lol! Who needs it? What's the big deal? Who cares? Why do people need to drug themselves in order to enjoy themselves, anyway? What's up with that? I just don't get it. Oh well. :-/
However, I'm pretty sure that for genetic reasons, alcohol does more for some folk than it does others. I saw a good documentary where they brain scanned three people:
1. A tee-totaller who by choice didn't drink because it didn't do much for them.
2. Someone who was a moderate drinker.
3. An alcoholic.
During the brain scan they fed each alcohol via an intravenous drip in a special way that negated the body's metabolism - so that each brain received the same amount of alcohol.
What happened in the corresponding brain scans were as follows:
1. Tee-totaller: the brain was only a tiny bit 'lit up'.
2. Moderate drinker: the brain was moderately 'lit up'.
3. Alcoholic: bells and whistles were playing; the brain really was 'lit up'.
On an anecdotal level I've asked Mrs Tosh why she hardly drinks and she says she doesn't like that 'out of control feeling'. I found that strange because when I drink, I feel IN CONTROL.
I hope that helps with your understanding of why some folk drink.
I thought people "got hammered" in order to escape painful thoughts or painful realities.
Same for bowling. For a while I was on a weekly league...in fact, was the president of the league for several years. And then realized that it was becoming work instead of fun. So I became a sub bowler for the league and occasionally did open bowling.
Now when it comes to the topic of drinking. When I was younger I drank, though I was only drunk twice in my life. Mostly it was 1-3 mixed drinks in a social situation type of thing. Eventually I realized that alcohol didn't make the fun, it was being with people that was fun. So I simply stopped drinking. Completely. But I'm not a prude about it. Come to my house for dinner or for a get-together and there will be beer, wine, and at least rum and coke. I go to happy hours...with a sprite in my hand. I go to parties where I know there will be considerable drinking on the part of some. Doesn't bother me till people start getting drunk.
When I hear one person telling another person that they're not a Buddhist, I'll tell them to do impossible things to themselves...because it's not their place to decide what somebody else is. But I think each of has to decide internally the difference between saying "I am a Buddhist" and "I practice some Buddhist principles". And it's not easy determining where the line is that divides the two situations.
Personally, I practice some Buddhist principles, but I also practice some Christian principles. I find much wisdom in both places.
But am I a Buddhist? Well, I believe in the 4NT, the 8-fold path, and the 5 Precepts. But beyond that I question much. It's not that I disbelieve in things like karma (I just don't think we understand at all how that works) or rebirth (I don't believe in it or not believe in it; remain open-minded about it, but unconvinced). It isn't even that I'm a "lazy" Buddhist or Christian.
And when it comes down to the Precepts, each of us must decide what a specific Precept means. I don't agree with how most define sentience, for example. And when it comes to alcohol and drugs, FOR ME, it's NO. Period.
Now I'm not speaking about any specific person, because each person must make the decision where that line is. But, often (note that there is a difference between "often" and "always") when I hear Buddhists justifying their use of alcohol and/or drugs, in my view they are simply making excuses.
When I think of alcohol and Buddhism? Well on one hand abusive and self harm are the problem of alcohol. If you only have a drink or two and don't drive, well then you don't fit in the self-harm category. Buddhism is all about non-harming, as Vincenzi our former friend and poster (now banned) always said, ahimsa.
The other category I think is just a cultural trapping of Buddhism. They think alcohol is bad just like they think garlic and onions are bad. In fact moderate alcohol is good for the heart and in fact onions and garlic are good for the blood. It is just a cultural trapping of Buddhism to say all alcohol is bad. I don't practice tantra with regard to garlic and onions. And at the same time I take the fifth precept to only mean to not become heedless. Or if you get in a car wreck, which is the worst thing of alcohol or one of them, you might even become headless!
Yes, while sober I could feel out of control; mostly of my emotions, but also of myself. If - when sober - I couldn't help but pick up that first drink and then finish the job - I had a sense that I had very little control over my life. I couldn't even guarantee I'd go to work the next day (I'm self employed). Sometimes I didn't know where I'd wake up. Obviously this lack of control manifested in my external world too; chased by bailiffs for money and stuff.
A sober alcoholic gagging for a drink will feel restless, irritable, discontented; anxious. You can't enjoy anything in this state, not music, not beautiful countryside; nothing; but given enough alcohol, we will get a sense of ease and comfort and we can enjoy music and stuff. Alcohol is a way of controlling our internal condition, even if outwardly we slur our words and can't control our bladders.
I also, when younger especially, when I drank, experienced something called the 'Popeye effect', you know what I mean; imagine what Popeye is like after he's had a tin of spinach. Drinking made me feel powerful; I could dance, I could talk to women, I was taller, I was better looking, I was funny. Women were prettier and the men were less scary.
Alcohol really changed my perceptions - big style. I don't think it's a mistake that whisky 'n' stuff is called 'spirits'; drinking could be like a spiritual experience for me. It made me present, quietened the mind; I could just watch the clouds and 'be'.
A lot of alkies/addicts are spiritual seekers, only we tend to find the wrong kind of spirits first.
HTH.
@Tosh that's interesting about the spiritual aspect. I wondered if that was a common theme. My ex (alcoholic) was very much like that. So were other people I know who are alcoholics. Very often very spiritual and deep people and most often also very intelligent. They seemed to have the hardest time coping with things they grasped about life better than the rest of us.
Both passages refer to "seven spirits," which can be taken as symbolic of the Seven Deadly sins of:
Lust
Gluttony
Greed
Sloth
Wrath
Envy
Pride
Now, these seven Sins can be seen as "Spirits," which in this case would stand for Spiritual Sins in the sense of Simony, that is: Lust for Spiritual Greatness; Spiritual Gluttony; Spiritual Greed (Avaricious Conduct); Despondency of Spirit (sloth) while holding high spiritual office; Wrath towards those of other faiths; Envy of Superiors; and Pride in ones spiritual status.
There's no pretense in the publican, but it is so hard for adherents of the Abrahamic religions not to be imbued heavily with some form of pretense. Indeed, this concept "pretense" is as much about leaning towards an outcome as it is about putting on a show or of showing affect. But I mean this really in a descriptive way rather than a judgmental way (I hope.).
I suppose alcohol helps when you are young and random sex with strangers is on the agenda.
If one is at a party to meet new people, being drunk may not be the best way to make a first impression.
Family get togethers are always free from alcohol or drugs for me. Most of my family are AA. Or just non drinkers. Some of the younger ones are very boisterous anyway. Usually there are plenty of laughs.
I've been a wet blanket most of my life since I quit drinking, but I like it that way.
What's with all the hand wringing and pearl clutching regarding drinking and/or drugs?
Humans have been taking/making intoxicants since the beginning of human time. It's nothing new. It doesn't reflect on these "horrible modern times", or on the decline of morals and ethics within our society.
Drinking is pleasurable, taking drugs and intoxicants is pleasurable, just like sex and eating is pleasurable. Humans are hardwired to seek that which is pleasurable and to avoid what is not.
We only get 'in trouble' when our seeking of pleasure overwhelms all other activities and (especially) our responsibilities. We will always find a way to experience these types of pleasures.... laws -or religion- can't stop that.
I look at it this way when it comes to drug or alcohol addiction - these people are "allergic" to these substances and must avoid them to stay sane and healthy. Others who do not have this 'allergic reaction' to drink or other intoxicants can (and do) function just fine within their lives while using and enjoying these things.... I think we should try to stop judging people based on our own issues we may or may not have with these substances.
I wonder if some of it goes back to our more ancient ancestry. Humans were mostly very tribal. We've always been social, but our social circles had been fairly small and tight, mostly family and extended family. So there is that connection and that common goal of keeping the community going etc. We don't have that same need anymore, but it seems biologically we are still looking for it. Many people don't have extended family around them, and they don't live in involved, close-knit communities, but they are still seeking that connection so they go to bars and parties and other large social events. But really when you look at the content of those things, they are empty. Lots of fun perhaps, but really void of any true connection.
8 years ago or so, I used to work at a place were we developed a routine that we'd all go to the bar after work on Thursdays. We had SO much fun. It really was a good time. Now, almost all of us have spouses, children, homes, "real" jobs, and other more stable, quiet lives. Sometimes, we try to get together at the same bar because we had so much fun there. Except now it's very hard to find any flow, any conversation that isn't based on the past. Our lives are just too different (even though they are very much the same) and we don't share that connection. I enjoy seeing them and catching up, but my heart is with my family. I think most people are the same as their lives progress. What their family is might differ a lot. But I think when we are younger, and those of us who haven't found our family yet when we are older, are seeking that close connection and acceptance. Once we find it, it seems very common that the need to go out and socialize in that forced manner disappears.
What I rarely see on here -- thank goodness -- are the kinda judgements about things like -- if you drink you will go to Buddhist hell.
Oookaaay. I guess I see what you're saying. :-/
I didn't mean to imply judgement on anyone. Honest.
That's why I said; " I look at it this way when it comes to drug or alcohol addiction.... "
Is everything OK, @vinlyn? You seem somewhat out of sorts these last few days....
And in this thread, for example, I've said that I think some people like to justify why they think drinking is okay even thought it's a precept, but then others go off on some other precept they personally feel different about (e.g., vegetarianism).
I don't drink. Ever. So you might think I'm all hot and bothered about drinking. But I'm not. Come to my house and you'll be offered beer, wine, or a mixed drink.
If there is one thing that ticks me off, it's this idea that the Precepts are just to train your mind. If you wanna train your mind, play chess. Or bridge. If you wanna be good, moral person, don't murder other people, don't steal from others, etc.
My own perspective is that I fail to see how occasional, responsible consumption - in moderation - of a beer or glass of wine would negatively impact my moral character.
As I understand it, we are encouraged to question and test Buddhism against our own experience. In my experience, a blanket prohibition against alcohol consumption seems a bit excessive. This precept also seems to vary from one tradition to another as well, with some calling for complete abstinence, and others mindful moderation.
I understand why the precept is there, of course. I'm not arguing that it should or should not be a precept. I just do not agree that abstaining from intoxicants indicates someone is a moral person. It just seems to me like that precept fits in better with precepts further down the line (such as not sleeping on a high bed, not wearing perfumes, not dancing in particular ways) that focus more on the individual developing clarity of mind and such, whereas to me morality is how we behave towards others and that falls much more in line with the other 4 precepts.
Have I ever seen someone eating a meal at 2 p.m. or sitting on a high seat harming others? No. But I have seen (and experienced) someone drinking and taking drugs harming others.
1...harming sentient beings.
2...stealing.
3...sexual misconduct.
4...false speech.
5...intoxicating drinks and drugs causing heedlessness.
6...taking untimely meals.
...dancing, singing, music and watching grotesque mime.
...use of garlands, perfumes and personal adornment.
...use of high seats.
...accepting gold or silver.
Again, everyone must make their own decision about this, just as I may define sentient differently than you do. What you decide doesn't -- in my view -- mean you are or are not a Buddhist. Of course, whether or not you break or keep the 10 Commandments doesn't decide whether or not you are a Christian. There's choice in all moral systems.
Characterizing joy, or enjoyment ("fun") as somehow the Devil's playground, or something, seems like an extreme. This is where the Middle Way comes in. Buddhism has its Puritanical aspects too, and it's easy for some people to get caught up in the fine details of the precepts. But Buddhism is, in part, about getting to joy, isn't it? Fun is ok, as long as it's not induced by mind-altering substances.
Personally, I would never attempt to take the vow against enjoying music. I think that's in the precepts because music back in the Buddha's time was viewed as more related to sensuality, dancing girls (who in some contexts were courtesans), and the like.
Because I read the precept as abstaining from intoxicants to the POINT of heedlessness, that is what I choose to follow. Am I making excuses? In my mind no. Clearly you or others might feel differently. But the only opinion outside of mine that gets any weight is my family and my teacher. Because my kids grew up with an alcoholic, neglectful father and are very sensitive to alcohol use in their lives, I'm very cautious with my use of it. That's where individual perception comes in. While plenty of people can have a beer or 2 at home while watching a game with their kids, I can't. Because I know that if I choose to drink in the presence of my kids, it'll cause them harm, I don't do it. Clearly drinking and driving is potentially harmful, so I don't do that. Drinking to the detriment of my mind and body isn't good, so I don't do that either. I don't think it makes me less moral.
Glad Mili Vanilli is no longer around
I do drink at home occasionally. For me beer is like chocolate bars. If I have it I will drink (some) beer. I quit for two years and now I have a good sensor for when I have had enough and in any case the maximum beer in my house is six and I can tolerate that alcohol level without a hang over. I usually have 3 and then I have 3 for the next day. I drink for two reasons. I love the glow of the first beer and I am a connoisseur (good word for the spelling bee). I used to brew beer and I know all about the styles and flavors. My tongue isn't that sensitive like a beer critic, but I know a lot about beer. I am not hurting myself with this behaviour and I am not hurting anyone else.
Sorry, the whole thing still isn't making sense to me. Oh well.
@Jeffrey - I'm the same way. Enjoying a glass of wine or beer for its taste as opposed to just slugging cheap booze back in order to lose inhibitions. Social pressure. Like you said above, people who feel pressure to go out should probably find a different group of friends, but I think for most people it's far from easy to just leave a group of friends.
I'm extremely quiet and shy and yes, drinking when in a larger group definitely helps in that department. Why bother? I guess I'm not sure. Because it stinks to have people all around you talking and dancing and joking and having fun while you sit in the corner like a turd on a log because what comes naturally to so many of them, does not come naturally to you. While as I've gotten older I'm far more accepting of myself and my differences from others, that's a much harder pill to swallow when you are an insecure college student. I never had friends who pressured me. I pressured myself because I didn't want to be left behind and left out. I wanted to spend time with my close friends, but sometimes that meant going with them to places with larger crowds that I didn't like. But I *wanted* to like it because everyone else did and I just figured it was something I had to learn to like. Not all social situations come easy to everyone, and not everyone has the insight early in life to truly believe it doesn't matter.