devotion and determination?

genkaku

I was noodling a little this morning about "loyalty and fealty," two words that might dovetail with the devotion and determination found in spiritual endeavors. Basically, I thought such characteristics were necessary ... but were not capable of offering a completed training...

And I wondered what your take might be.

Vastmind

I've been appreciating your noodling lately. Thanks for sharing.
I liked the parent analogy....I'll take it one step further....
what does it say about the parent who DOES want the grown
child at home, Or is not 'pushing' them out the door?
Not encouraging/teaching them how to be a lamp for themselves..??

I guess for them, it seems like a good idea at the time, huh?

genkaku

@vastminds -- If my experience is anything to go by, parents are naturally conflicted, assuming they love their kids. On the one hand there are years of protective and encouraging activity that settles in as a habit. On the other hand, there is the verifiable knowledge that the child must go into the world unprotected. If you've got kids, then you know what a pisscutter of a koan this can be.

And I think the metaphor may extend to spiritual life as well ... to protect, inform, encourage and, yes, to take a leadership (by default) position. But in the end, if a Buddhist could do no better than to be a "Buddhist," what useful role could that possibly play? That sounds to me about as inviting as drinking from the half-full beer can that was left on the arm of the sofa overnight. Hardly Buddhism from where I sit.

Vastmind

^^^ I agree.

*popping open two new beer cans......handing you one*

Theswingisyellow

Thank you for the post and the nice blog you have As far as spiritual endeavors go I wonder do we need to pledge an allegiance (fealty) to a spiritual leader or pactice? I would say not. Determination is not allegiance. Must I have loyalty (devotion) to this practice? Getting to the heart of a matter, it would seem to me, requires a committment to its ideas or its practice. I agree that devotion and determination are necessary characteristics-but as you imply they will only get you so far. A missing ingredient is, what is one practicing? What does one hope to achieve? I can apply determination and devotion as a memeber of Aum Shinrikyo, but all my determination and devotion may end in death and catastrophy.
All the best,
Todd

genkaku

As far as spiritual endeavors go I wonder do we need to pledge an allegiance (fealty) to a spiritual leader or practice? I would say not.

@Todd -- I hear what you are saying, but if you loosen the reins a bit on 'pledging allegiance,' perhaps the term has wider meanings ... not just the words spoken or the forms signed. For example, if I decide to go to a Zen center on a particular evening, I think it can be fairly said that I have pledged an allegiance to that activity ... as distinct, say, from going to the movies. How deep and far-reaching my allegiance may be is up for grabs ... perhaps next time I'll be smart and go to the movies. But still....

Maybe I'm just splitting hairs here, but I don't think it matters much what anyone is practicing. Aum Shinrikyo, Jim Jones, wondrous Buddhism ... people offer their allegiance, practice a determined practice and (assuming they don't run into a suicide pact) come out the other side with something more important than allegiance ... maybe something along Gautama's lines of "be a lamp unto yourself."

I don't know ... just chewing my cud here.

chela

Parenting is the hardest thing I've been doing over the last 17 years of my life. I'm sure it's why Siddhartha left. :hair:

Theswingisyellow

"be a lamp unto yourself." I think when the Buddha touch the earth as a witness, this is what he was saying to himself.

MaryAnne

chela said:

Parenting is the hardest thing I've been doing over the last 17 years of my life. I'm sure it's why Siddhartha left. :hair:

I probably shouldn't have laughed at that.... but as a parent myself for [gulp!] 38 years now... it made me laugh out loud for real! :-)

Vastmind

^^ I LOL'd too...this morning...but didn't tag it!
Guess I was waiting on a co-signer. hahaha

lobster

We believe that we are devoted to our parents and spiritual mentors. Really it is very much the other way around.

Theswingisyellow

@genkaku-"be a lamp unto yourself."
I have been giving this alot thought-it's resonating pretty strongly, thank you.

genkaku

@Theswingisyellow -- It's a tough-but-not-uncrackable nut.

Like getting to Carnegie Hall, the best way is to "practice, practice, practice." Or anyway, that's my take.

Jeffrey

Devotion can give a happy feeling. Today is my guru's birthday and it just made me joyful.