Would you like to be rich?

footiam

Below is a suttat on being rich. Read it and say - would you like to be rich or poor?
SN 3.6
PTS: S i 73
CDB i 168
Appaka Sutta: Few
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1998–2013
At Savatthi. As he was sitting to one side, King Pasenadi Kosala said to the Blessed One: "Just now, lord, while I was alone in seclusion, this train of thought arose in my awareness: 'Few are those people in the world who, when acquiring lavish wealth, don't become intoxicated & heedless, don't become greedy for sensual pleasures, and don't mistreat other beings. Many more are those who, when acquiring lavish wealth, become intoxicated & heedless, become greedy for sensual pleasures, and mistreat other beings.'"

"That's the way it is, great king! That's the way it is! Few are those people in the world who, when acquiring lavish wealth, don't become intoxicated & heedless, don't become greedy for sensual pleasures, and don't mistreat other beings. Many more are those who, when acquiring lavish wealth, become intoxicated & heedless, become greedy for sensual pleasures, and mistreat other beings."

That is what the Blessed One said. Having said that, the One Well-Gone, the Teacher, said further:
Impassioned with sensual possessions, greedy, dazed by sensual pleasures, they don't awaken to the fact that they've gone too far — like deer into a trap laid out. Afterwards it's bitter for them: evil for them the result.

MaryAnne

I would love to be rich... but magically rich.
I would not want to come by my riches by way of using others' blood sweat and tears while I reap the benefits (like a useless overpaid CEO).

But if I could wake up tomorrow and have about 20 million in the bank, it would be wonderful!! I LOVE helping people. I would share with everyone in my family, I would share with a few choice friends, I would give big $$ to some really worthy charities and medical institutions.
I would set aside 1million for myself and my husband to take us through our old age, and the rest would be spent as mentioned above. It would be the same if I won the lottery for 2 million or 200 million! A million in the bank for us- the rest well spent on others.

misecmisc1

i would like to become rich(though not too much rich) - because being poor do not help either - rather not too rich, not too poor like a middle class man is better.

Gui

Only if I were wise enough to give it all away.

Zero

footiam said:

would you like to be rich or poor?

I am content with my position - to some I am fabulously wealthy beyond their wildest dreams, to others I am barely surviving - to me, I am just right - so grateful for my blessings which are all unearned.

BhanteLucky

Good sutta @footiam !
I realised recently that winning the lottery might delay my ordaining, so I stopped buying lottery tickets. Well, mostly stopped!
I realised if I won big, I would be too tempted to see the world for a couple of years before I went into the monastery.
Plus it would be a temptation during the time I was a monk... I would always have the thought in the back of my mind that I could just disrobe and live easy.

But it would make life a lot easier for my retired parents, who are on a fixed income and have lost their savings in the financial crisis.

BhanteLucky

Uh, and by the way, if anyone has a spare few thousand... PM me and I'll email you my paypal address.
It'll go to a good cause!

federica

No, not rich.
But I'd like to have some money...

That would be a cool start - !

karasti

I don't need to be rich. In a dream situation I'd like to have enough to get a good sized plot of land (cheap here, 50 acres or so) with a fully self sustaining cabin/house and set up a good garden with an in-ground root cellar. We could do it all easily for like $250k or so, maybe less. I'd like to have enough to pay for college for my kids so they didn't have to take out loans. That's really all we'd like to do. If we got more than that, I'd spread it out to the family and friends, probably travel a bit. The guy who leads our sangha (not the monk, but we have a leader here since the monk lives a long ways away) leads tours to Bhutan and Tibet. I'd love to go on one of those at $10k a pop. But then I'd give it away. I'd have a hard time deciding where to spread the money out, but it would likely involve children and education.

Nevermind

Yes, rich, but actually by global average standards I'm already rich, as everyone who happens to read this probably is.

Jeffrey

I think of it as what I enjoy I want to keep that. For example I like my computer games, and so many things taken for granted like nice heat to the house and money to buy books and nice coffee and things.

BhanteLucky

Nevermind said:

Yes, rich, but actually by global average standards I'm already rich, as everyone who happens to read this probably is.

Good point! I went to the Global Rich List site and entered my income.
I was shocked... it turns out I am in the top 1% of richest people on the planet. 0.93% to be exact.
There are only 55 million people who earn more than me, on a world with 7 Billion people. Hmm, that puts things in perspective.
I should quit complaining.

riverflow

What we consider to be 'rich' or 'poor' is relative to the individual. I have always had an inclination to live with less material things and the few visitors that have ever been to my apartment are shocked, thinking I live a spartan lifestyle--no TV, no sofa, no table--just a mattress, desk, one small bookshelf, as far as 'furniture' goes. The laptop is the only thing I have worth stealing. But it is really more a matter of simplicity for me and I enjoy it this way. More wealth just means more complications, something I could do without. Why on earth would I want more money? What would I do with it?

I still think I have too much. Every year, I periodically clean house and get rid of more (I am probably a little OCD about this actually!). I suppose I am not doing my patriotic part in supporting a capitalist economy by buying more stuff!

And in spite of all this, echoing @Nevermind 's sentiment, I am still very well off, not only by global average standards, but by people in the community where I live (one of the poorest counties in the state of Arkansas). I have a good paying job and I am saving up to move elsewhere, but I really don't need the money, to be honest. So I know there is still so much that I take for granted, and I am very fortunate.

I would like to be more thankful for what I already have rather than wish for more. Inner riches which cannot be quantified should matter far much more than material pleasures.

[--on another note, what I am beginning to see is that material possessions are then the least of my worries-- it is the mental possessions I have which are the deeper problem, of clinging and pushing away, the monkey mind. Having less has put this contrast in sharper relief!]

blu3ree

karasti said:

I don't need to be rich. In a dream situation I'd like to have enough to get a good sized plot of land (cheap here, 50 acres or so) with a fully self sustaining cabin/house and set up a good garden with an in-ground root cellar. We could do it all easily for like $250k or so, maybe less. I'd like to have enough to pay for college for my kids so they didn't have to take out loans. That's really all we'd like to do. If we got more than that, I'd spread it out to the family and friends, probably travel a bit. The guy who leads our sangha (not the monk, but we have a leader here since the monk lives a long ways away) leads tours to Bhutan and Tibet. I'd love to go on one of those at $10k a pop. But then I'd give it away. I'd have a hard time deciding where to spread the money out, but it would likely involve children and education.

Might I suggest a greenhouse made from pcb as the structure. Polycarbonate for the cover. And some wood planks to act as a reinforcer on the front and back. All this for under 1k. They have alot of do it yourself greenhouse videos on YouTube.

@jamesthegiant if u ever get tired of watching your money build up in ur bank I'd be happy to take some

Invincible_summer

I'd like to think that I'd just need enough to pay off a decent house/plot of land, and savings to allow me to live comfortably. I don't live very lavishly, nor do I really see the attraction of attending black-tie events all the time or being chauffeured around. I'd just like to be comfortable so I can pursue things other than paying bills. Perhaps I'd be able to dedicate more time to helping others.

But how do we know when "enough is enough?"

It's a slippery slope.

BhanteLucky

blu3ree said:

@jamesthegiant if u ever get tired of watching your money build up in ur bank I'd be happy to take some

Thank you for the suggestion @blu3ree, I will keep it in mind.
However, it is all allocated. I just paid off my student loan, and now I have three savings targets. As soon as I reach the target I will quit my job and go.

$2000 to go to Thailand in the middle of the year.
$4000 for an Indian pilgrimage. (paying for my dad too.)
$3000 to get me through my anagarika year expenses, before I get ordained.

Hopefully, if all goes well, that's all the money I will need for the rest of my life!

blu3ree

JamestheGiant said:

blu3ree said:

@jamesthegiant if u ever get tired of watching your money build up in ur bank I'd be happy to take some

Thank you for the suggestion @blu3ree, I will keep it in mind.
However, it is all allocated. I just paid off my student loan, and now I have three savings targets. As soon as I reach the target I will quit my job and go.

$2000 to go to Thailand in the middle of the year.
$4000 for an Indian pilgrimage. (paying for my dad too.)
$3000 to get me through my anagarika year expenses, before I get ordained.

Hopefully, if all goes well, that's all the money I will need for the rest of my life!

So does that mean your not giving me any money :scratch:
Also what job do you do and for how long have u been paying the loans back?

BhanteLucky

blu3ree said:

So does that mean your not giving me any money :scratch:

LOL, yes, I'm very sorry.

blu3ree said:

Also what job do you do and for how long have u been paying the loans back?

I have a very strange job. It pays very well though.
For the past six months I have had a job as a Parking Inspector.
Walking around the city giving cars tickets for having an expired meter, or stopping in a Wheelchair Bay.
I've had my student loan for about 10 years, and just finished it off this month!
Four more months and I'll be outta here.

blu3ree

Did u have to go to college to write people parking tickets? @jamesthegiant
No need to be sorry ive been fortunate enough to have a dysfunctional compassionate family! that is more than most people on earth have.

BhanteLucky

blu3ree said:

Did u have to go to college to write people parking tickets? @jamesthegiant
.

Ha! No, I'm the only one with a university degree out of 30+ parking inspectors. They call me "Professor".

Dandelion

@federica .... me too.
I keep telling my Karma I totally understand what it feels like to be broke, and I have leant my lessons.. but Karma seems to think otherwise :rolleyes: lol
Obviously Karma knows something(s) I don't!!!

footiam

MaryAnne said:

I would love to be rich... but magically rich.
I would not want to come by my riches by way of using others' blood sweat and tears while I reap the benefits (like a useless overpaid CEO).

But if I could wake up tomorrow and have about 20 million in the bank, it would be wonderful!! I LOVE helping people. I would share with everyone in my family, I would share with a few choice friends, I would give big $$ to some really worthy charities and medical institutions.
I would set aside 1million for myself and my husband to take us through our old age, and the rest would be spent as mentioned above. It would be the same if I won the lottery for 2 million or 200 million! A million in the bank for us- the rest well spent on others.

Yeah, having 20 million in the bank is wonderful. since we don't have it yet, we can only help others by offering kind words.

BhikkhuJayasara

Becoming rich is a prison, people simultaneously hate you, blame you, and want to use you as an atm machine....you end up very alone.

Who would want that?

Invincible_summer

Jayantha said:

Becoming rich is a prison, people simultaneously hate you, blame you, and want to use you as an atm machine....you end up very alone.

Who would want that?

I guess wealth is always relative... even with a full-time job at Subway, one could be wealthy compared to many in developing countries, but not so much compared to Warren Buffett.

I wouldn't want to be so filthy rich that everyone knows. Just enough to be comfortable and help others without worrying about the pricetag.

But I suppose that's not necessarily up to me.

MontrealMonk

karasti said:

I don't need to be rich. In a dream situation I'd like to have enough to get a good sized plot of land (cheap here, 50 acres or so) with a fully self sustaining cabin/house and set up a good garden with an in-ground root cellar. We could do it all easily for like $250k or so, maybe less. I'd like to have enough to pay for college for my kids so they didn't have to take out loans. That's really all we'd like to do. If we got more than that, I'd spread it out to the family and friends, probably travel a bit. The guy who leads our sangha (not the monk, but we have a leader here since the monk lives a long ways away) leads tours to Bhutan and Tibet. I'd love to go on one of those at $10k a pop. But then I'd give it away. I'd have a hard time deciding where to spread the money out, but it would likely involve children and education.

you took the words right out of my mouth. WELL SAID!

DaftChris

If we are talking about monetary gains, I would like enough money to pay all of my bills and college debt; and some spending money for myself. Perhaps enough for a small vacation every year and a big one every few years. Not rich, but comfortable.

However, I do consider myself a little rich already. With all the knowledge I'm gaining from school and the world around me, I think I'm a pretty wealthy guy.

Citta

I AM rich. Now what ?

riverflow

'What right have you to take the word “wealth” which originally meant “well-being” and degrade and narrow it by confining it to certain sorts of material objects measured by money?' ~ John Ruskin

shanyin

I'd love it

MaryAnne

shanyin said:

I'd love it

Ha! Well, that was short and sweet (and honest!). :thumbup:

footiam

misecmisc1 said:

i would like to become rich(though not too much rich) - because being poor do not help either - rather not too rich, not too poor like a middle class man is better.

I wonder when is it rich, when it is not too rich and when it is poor and not too poor? It's hard to walk the middle path, isn't it?

misecmisc1

footiam said:

misecmisc1 said:

i would like to become rich(though not too much rich) - because being poor do not help either - rather not too rich, not too poor like a middle class man is better.

I wonder when is it rich, when it is not too rich and when it is poor and not too poor? It's hard to walk the middle path, isn't it?

i think in most of the cases, it is more hard to find the middle path than walking on the middle path itself.

but for the current topic, i would say - money is not the most important thing, but also not less than the most important thing in the modern materialistic world we live in.

Lee82

I've been reflecting on this today. The Euromillions lottery is on Friday (my birthday) and has a prize of £80M. I don't normally waste money on gambling like that but as it's my birthday I think I might this week. It's not that I want the money, I want to win it but not for myself. I don't need to prove this to myself but if I did win then I would simply put the money in the bank and leave it there, then use it as and when necessary to help other people e.g. secret donations to bank accounts of people I know who need money. I would also continue to work for my employer but for no salary because they supported me when I was very ill 5 years ago, even though I had only been at the company a couple of months and needed to take about 3 months off to recover.

For some people the world revolves around money, it defines who they are, their happiness and how they behave. They don't realise that some things are more important than money. I can be perfectly happy without winning the lottery or I can be perfectly happy whilst improving the happiness of others if I do win the lottery. Of course, all of this is irrelevant because it will never happen. Or maybe now that I have attained a state of mind where money is of no consequence, it will somehow find its way to me.

Citta

Citta said:

I AM rich. Now what ?

Always glad to brighten someones day. But I wasn't joking.

ThailandTom

I would at this moment in time be quite scared if I suddenly became very wealthy, the amount of attachment and problems that come with huge wealth is staggering. I would TRY to save some and I would give a lot of it away as wisely as I could, but there is still that side of me that could so easily get caught up in desires of all natures, so I am 50-50 on it.

vinlyn

ThailandTom said:

I would at this moment in time be quite scared if I suddenly became very wealthy, the amount of attachment and problems that come with huge wealth is staggering. I would TRY to save some and I would give a lot of it away as wisely as I could, but there is still that side of me that could so easily get caught up in desires of all natures, so I am 50-50 on it.

Oh darn, and I was just getting ready to wire you $100,000!

ThailandTom

vinlyn said:

ThailandTom said:

I would at this moment in time be quite scared if I suddenly became very wealthy, the amount of attachment and problems that come with huge wealth is staggering. I would TRY to save some and I would give a lot of it away as wisely as I could, but there is still that side of me that could so easily get caught up in desires of all natures, so I am 50-50 on it.

Oh darn, and I was just getting ready to wire you $100,000!

Hey, 50-50 is a coin flip right?.... Oh look, it is heads and I always go for heads. Wire that moneys Vinlyn, please

Sabby

I would give my parents all the money i owe them for my education and pay off everything else I owe, help out my family and give the rest to shelters and charity. Being able to pay my parents back for my education would make me feel a lot less guilty for wanting to ordain with a debt to them :-/

Citta

ThailandTom said:

vinlyn said:

ThailandTom said:

I would at this moment in time be quite scared if I suddenly became very wealthy, the amount of attachment and problems that come with huge wealth is staggering. I would TRY to save some and I would give a lot of it away as wisely as I could, but there is still that side of me that could so easily get caught up in desires of all natures, so I am 50-50 on it.

Oh darn, and I was just getting ready to wire you $100,000!

Hey, 50-50 is a coin flip right?.... Oh look, it is heads and I always go for heads. Wire that moneys Vinlyn, please

I will selflessly solve the problem. Despite all the associated problems I will take on the burden of the money..

Wisdom23

Me personally i am not bothered, give me a cup of tea and whisper a rude word in my ear and i will be giggling away for ages. For a 22 year old male i am so immature. Saying this i am engaged and there has been talk of multiplying lol so i would only want to be rish so i could make sure my family is looked after.

ZendoLord84

I get by.
It's enough.

footiam

MaryAnne said:

I would love to be rich... but magically rich.
I would not want to come by my riches by way of using others' blood sweat and tears while I reap the benefits (like a useless overpaid CEO).

But if I could wake up tomorrow and have about 20 million in the bank, it would be wonderful!! I LOVE helping people. I would share with everyone in my family, I would share with a few choice friends, I would give big $$ to some really worthy charities and medical institutions.
I would set aside 1million for myself and my husband to take us through our old age, and the rest would be spent as mentioned above. It would be the same if I won the lottery for 2 million or 200 million! A million in the bank for us- the rest well spent on others.

That's food for thought. If you don't have money, you probably could not help some people!

music

Being rich - better still, being born rich - is everybody's dream. Rich people are bodhisatvas, far superior to the rest of us mortals (else, they wouldn't have had such great karma to begin with). People may not agree, but deep down they know this is true.

footiam

misecmisc1 said:

i would like to become rich(though not too much rich) - because being poor do not help either - rather not too rich, not too poor like a middle class man is better.

Being too much rich should be better than poor. And one probably could help more for being too much rich.

Ficus_religiosa

Who wouldn't? I just don't wanna do the necessary work and take the risks needed.
Just not the business type. My dream is having a stable economy with room for some fun. Since I think I have enough now (student loan, stipend, salary and some money in the bank from diseased family members), I'm not too worried about money. Used to have a lot less just 1½ years ago and I was also happy back then

riverflow

I'm fortunate. I have no debt and live next door to my job. I am actually trying to get transferred to a new department which will be a major cut in my pay. The big bucks are not worth the stress.

If I want anything, it isn't quantifiable in terms of money--I just want to live as simply as I can. Less is more.

footiam

Gui said:

Only if I were wise enough to give it all away.

To give it all away probably would not be wise. It would depend on who we are giving to for instance. If you are giving all your riches to terrorists, you probably would be as tainted as the terrorists themselves.

Arthurbodhi

One refrain said:
"Rich is not the one that have more but is the one that need less."

I like that, but I still need a lot of needless stuff to feed my ego, so I'm not very rich for now

SillyPutty

I have horrendous debt from some poor decisions I have made (a divorce where I was left holding the bills and I did not hire a lawyer to fight for my interests, a selfish ex boyfriend who took advantage of my generosity, as well as grad school debt), yet I'm surprisingly content. Would it be nice to erase the debt tomorrow magically with lottery winnings? Sure. But the debt doesn't define my happiness. I don't equate peace of mind with my bank account.

footiam

SillyPutty said:

I have horrendous debt from some poor decisions I have made (a divorce where I was left holding the bills and I did not hire a lawyer to fight for my interests, a selfish ex boyfriend who took advantage of my generosity, as well as grad school debt), yet I'm surprisingly content. Would it be nice to erase the debt tomorrow magically with lottery winnings? Sure. But the debt doesn't define my happiness. I don't equate peace of mind with my bank account.

Debt would not give you peace of mind, would it?

SillyPutty

footiam said:

Debt would not give you peace of mind, would it?

I do not allow it to *not* give me peace of mind. I just deal with it. It's just 'there'. I do not allow it to control whether my mind is at peace or not. Is it easier not having debt? Sure! But it doesn't define me. That's the point I was trying to make. It's just money (or in this case 'lack-thereof'). I could win the lottery tomorrow and still end up in debt again next week. Things are always changing. Nothing is promised to us. And as I said, the debt arose from poor decisions I made (i.e. karma). I just deal with it and try to learn to do better and stay responsible for my actions. That's about all we can do!