Karma

beginner36

Do you still get good karma, if you do things because you know you will get good karma? Does that make it a selfish act?

BhanteLucky

I wrote a detailed answer, but then I realised everything I wrote boiled down to this:
You get out what you put in.
Good karma comes in direct proportion to your intention.
So in your example, you'll still "get" good karma, but maybe not a lot, since it is based in selfishness.

karasti

Obviously no one truly knows the answer. We don't have access to the vast karma calculator. But if you are doing good just to help someone, with no thought as to what is in it for you (even karma) it is better, I think. But, I do think that even if karma motivates you to do something good, it is better to do it than to not do it. There are some things I've had to do where in a sense karma was the only thing that motivated me at all. Not so much as a "ugh, I'm only doing this because it's good karma for me" but more so "This sucks, but it has to be done, and hey, it's good karma, right?" It's hard to think of changing a colostomy bag for someone any other way, for me anyhow, lol.

I also think the more good you do, the easier it is to not worry what you get out of it. You can help yourself along by doing anonymous good deeds on a regular basis. It'll still make you feel good, but at least you are teaching yourself not to seek rewards, not even a thank you.

beginner36

Thanks for the responses. I'm still very much a beginner. I was wondering how that worked. This is all so new to me.

misecmisc1

the key factor deciding the output of an action is the intention behind it. so even if the intention is to do good act to help others to get good karma results, still since the act will involve doing something good to others, the outcome will be a good karma result, but since there will be an intention of selfishness in it, so the outcome may get slightly reduced, but it shall still be something good. do good to others and then the idea of getting something good for yourself in return shall go away gradually.

lobster

Our degree of selfish intent lessens with practice.
initially we try to do 'good', with reckless Generosity and abandon.

I'm a man who doesn't know
How to sell a contradiction
You come and go
Culture Club, Karma Chameleon

Jason

beginner36 said:

Do you still get good karma, if you do things because you know you will get good karma? Does that make it a selfish act?

I'd say it depends on the context, but yes, it's possible. For example, the Buddha advises in SN 3.24 to give wherever you feel inclined to give; and while some gifts bear greater fruit, every act of generosity is meritorious, even those with a selfish motivation (e.g., AN 3.57, see AN 7.49). That doesn't mean, of course, that every selfish or self-serving act will be skillful (kusala), or that every skillful act is necessarily selfish or self-serving; but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

beginner36

Thanks for all your responses. Another question about karma if I may. Is it possible to "cleanse" previous bad karma? Or does one have to wait for the inevitable suffering as a cost of previous bad karma?

Cinorjer

When Bodhidharma (the legendary founder of Chan Buddhism) arrived in China from the West, the story goes that he was summoned by Emperor Wu where this exchange took place:

Emperor Wu asked, "How much good karma have I earned for building monasteries and commissioning Buddha images?"

Bodhidharma replied, "None whatsoever."

I imagine Bodhidharma then left quickly while the Emperor was trying to figure out how much bad karma he'd get for executing a smart-mouthed monk.

Make of it what you will. Good intentions are important. The Dharma says good intentions make good karma. But good intentions are not enough. A lot of suffering in the world is caused by people with good intentions. That's why we have the 8-fold path.

DairyLama

beginner36 said:

Thanks for all your responses. Another question about karma if I may. Is it possible to "cleanse" previous bad karma? Or does one have to wait for the inevitable suffering as a cost of previous bad karma?

An analogy: somebody could live an unhealthy lifestyle for a long period of time and then begin to suffer poor health as a consequence....but those health problems could be reduced if that person began living a more healthy lifestyle.
Does that help?

beginner36

An analogy: somebody could live an unhealthy lifestyle for a long period of time and then begin to suffer poor health as a consequence....but those health problems could be reduced if that person began living a more healthy lifestyle.

I think I understand. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If you have made bad karma in the past, you will have to pay the piper for that bad karma; however, if you are making good karma, the bad karma will be less severe?

beginner36

Emperor Wu asked, "How much good karma have I earned for building monasteries and commissioning Buddha images?"

Bodhidharma replied, "None whatsoever."

I imagine Bodhidharma then left quickly while the Emperor was trying to figure out how much bad karma he'd get for executing a smart-mouthed monk.

I laughed out loud at this.

DairyLama

beginner36 said:

An analogy: somebody could live an unhealthy lifestyle for a long period of time and then begin to suffer poor health as a consequence....but those health problems could be reduced if that person began living a more healthy lifestyle.

I think I understand. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If you have made bad karma in the past, you will have to pay the piper for that bad karma; however, if you are making good karma, the bad karma will be less severe?

Sort of, but it's a dynamic process with feedback. Actions have consequences but those consequences aren't set in stone, they can be altered by subsequent action.

vinlyn

Cinorjer said:

When Bodhidharma (the legendary founder of Chan Buddhism) arrived in China from the West, the story goes that he was summoned by Emperor Wu where this exchange took place:

Emperor Wu asked, "How much good karma have I earned for building monasteries and commissioning Buddha images?"

Bodhidharma replied, "None whatsoever."

I imagine Bodhidharma then left quickly while the Emperor was trying to figure out how much bad karma he'd get for executing a smart-mouthed monk.

Make of it what you will. Good intentions are important. The Dharma says good intentions make good karma. But good intentions are not enough. A lot of suffering in the world is caused by people with good intentions. That's why we have the 8-fold path.

Yes, I've come to the conclusion that intention alone is not enough. It must be good intention + wise action.

MaryAnne

SpinyNorman said:

beginner36 said:

Thanks for all your responses. Another question about karma if I may. Is it possible to "cleanse" previous bad karma? Or does one have to wait for the inevitable suffering as a cost of previous bad karma?

An analogy: somebody could live an unhealthy lifestyle for a long period of time and then begin to suffer poor health as a consequence....but those health problems could be reduced if that person began living a more healthy lifestyle.
Does that help?

Doesn't quite help me understand.... Everyone will die. No one dies "in good health" (unless of course they get hit by a bus or whatever). Old age brings on ill health, whether you lived a "healthy" lifestyle previously or not. The body breaks down, for us all.
Children get cancer (and other things) and die. They didn't even get the chance for healthy living habits....

To the OP; it's my opinion that it's foolish to waste time and thought on trying to figure out what to do about lives past (if indeed there is a karmic payback) or what to do to ensure one's karmic future. Live the life you have now. Choose to live it well by way of the Buddhist path or any other spiritual path. But don't become attached to the idea of a Karmic Score Card or competition....

Dakini

beginner36 said:

Do you still get good karma, if you do things because you know you will get good karma? Does that make it a selfish act?

Good question. But they say intent is everything. So if you have selfish intent, maybe you'd lose some potential good-karma points. Seems pretty cynical. From a practice standpoint, an act spurred by such a motive would have null value. The purpose of doing selfless acts (note: self-less) is to develop compassion. Doing an ostensibly compassionate act out of purely selfish motives would do nothing to develop a compassionate heart and realize no-self.

So the answer to your question would be "no".

Jeffrey

For past bad karma:

Reflect on regret
Create good karma as antidote eg giving or meditation
Be mindful to act appropriately in the future
Take refuge

Jason

SpinyNorman said:

beginner36 said:

An analogy: somebody could live an unhealthy lifestyle for a long period of time and then begin to suffer poor health as a consequence....but those health problems could be reduced if that person began living a more healthy lifestyle.

I think I understand. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If you have made bad karma in the past, you will have to pay the piper for that bad karma; however, if you are making good karma, the bad karma will be less severe?

Sort of, but it's a dynamic process with feedback. Actions have consequences but those consequences aren't set in stone, they can be altered by subsequent action.

Yes, this is more the less the idea conveyed in places like AN 3.99 and SN 42.8.

It should also be noted that, from the Buddhist point of view, the idea is to ultimately purify and eventually eliminate the production of kamma (AN 4.235), not wait and exhaust all of our kamma (good or bad), which is basically how the doctrine of the Jains is presented in the suttas (e.g., MN 101).

Essentially, kamma is a nonlinear and self-sustaining process of conditionality, and when present kamma is stopped, the kammic system (sort of speaking) breaks down, dissolves, falls apart, ceases to function, is no longer relevant.

You can find more of my thoughts about kamma here if you're interested, @beginner36. In addition, I also recommend checking out this and this.

chela

I am using mindfulness to reduce my thoughts of "this sucks". So, instead of having that fighting, "I really don't like this" feeling, I just try to let myself be engrossed in the moment, not thinking about anything else but what I'm doing. It helps reduce that selfish feeling. And the more you practice this, the less you feel that resistance.

lobster

Enabling good karma through practice, the bad becomes easier to deal with . . .
This we can know and experience . . . :clap: