What to do with the dogma

nenkohai

My (young) dharma-practice centers around the Four Noble Truths and the Eight Fold Path. That is all. I realize there are other of the Buddha's teachings, but these seem core. After Buddha's death, it seems much commentary was added that gave rise to the religion itself. Add-ons. Schools arose: "do it this way." And I feel that Buddhism has fallen into religion's trap: that of "thinking" for its adherents. Buddhist orthodoxy.

In a purely practical sense, I am not interested in learning Indian, sanscrit, or Hindi vocabulary (said with respects, however); I am not interested in religious Buddhist ritual.

I AM interested in the Buddha's kernal-truths. I am interested in a personal and consistent dharma practice.

I am not sure what to do with rest of it... "the stuff."

Straight_Man

Um, some of what is "stuff" may resonate with you as your practice develops. Adopt it if you choose to. It is there for that, not for forcing of ritual or routine to many on the middle way (me included).

genkaku

@nenkohai -- Everything that what is called "Buddhism" offers is what you call "the stuff" and that includes The Four Noble Truths and The Eightfold Path. Others may disagree with your "stuff" or mine, but that's not so much an issue as practice proceeds. It is from what is "extra" that anyone learns what is not "extra."

So ... relax. Try not to worry too much about what others embrace. Worry, rather, about what you embrace. Keep on practicing. See what happens. As Gautama is alleged to have said, "It is not what others do and do not do that is my concern. It is what I do and do not do -- that is my concern."

Best wishes.

Jeffrey

If there were later Buddhas don't you think they would add to it?

If no later Buddhas then why practice the dharma at all?

riverflow

nenkohai said:

I am not interested in religious Buddhist ritual.

I AM interested in the Buddha's kernal-truths. I am interested in a personal and consistent dharma practice.

You sound just like me a few years ago. I was what I like to now call a 'zazen only please' Buddhist. I thought of Buddhism as strictly a philosophy and all the chanting, prostrating, bowing, recitations, and other various practices I thought of as needless accumulations of customs that got in the way of the Buddhist practice.

That was three years ago. Over time (and, at first, with reluctance and perhaps even trepidation), I thought to myself, well, a meditation space would function as a pragmatic reminder to myself and I would have a place reserved for sitting. Then a statue. The candles and incense. Then bowing. Then short recitations, and on an on. Now I find myself chanting, doing mantras and even prostrations! I could not have imagined myself doing this before, but now it makes perfectly good sense to me, and really it has a pragmatic function as well. It is all ultimately mental training for mindfulness. Every action is geared toward that in different ways. What I too originally thought of as 'add ons' was actually just an expression of the Buddha's most basic teachings. Just like a seed that contains all the genetic data to grow into a massive tree.

But it takes some time to recognise the mutual support that all these rituals have, and that recognition probably doesn't come all at once to people new to Buddhism. And when you first do something new (any activity, whether a new job, learning to play the piano, you name it) it will feel a bit strange at first. That's normal.

In the meantime, I would suggest, if anything, to remain open to the possibility that these other doctrines and rituals have more to offer in a way to deepen your practice. You may not need those things just yet, but you may find them to be very helpful in the future. Don't think you need to get involved with all that now, but at the same time don't write it off. Just give yourself time to grow and mature into the practice.

One more floral analogy: When you first get a tiny plant, it is best to have it in a small pot. But there comes a time when, in order for the plant to flourish, it needs to be re-potted into a larger pot. I think Buddhist practice is like that too.

Cinorjer

I think the simple, profound beauty of the Noble Truths is what brought a lot of us to Buddhism. Certainly myself. My first Zen teacher talked about a lot of the other stuff that goes along with this core insight, and had a rather unique way of looking at it.

One time in his sessions someone (I think it was me) referred to the bowing and chanting and such being as useless as layers of paint slapped onto a Buddha statue. He told me it was more like icing on a cake. The cake is what's important but you don't go around objecting to a bit of icing to decorate and flavor the cake, do you? Nor do you sit around arguing that there's only one flavor or color of decoration that must cover the cake. You just bite in and enjoy a big mouthful of it, icing and cake mixing into one complete experience.

And now I'm hungry for cake. I gotta learn to save these metaphors until after supper.

lobster

I am not sure what to do with rest of it... "the stuff."

Eventually it is all stuff. Use the stuff that is useful. As has been said, stuff changes, what is useful changes. For now the rest can rest easy . . .

nenkohai

Friends, I realize after reading my initial post, I may have sounded quite pointed in my presentation. I sincerely beg your pardon on that. You all have been gracious in your responses and all speak to me. Thank you for taking the time. All your points are well taken.

vinlyn

OP, I think you may (or may not) have fallen into a trap -- the trap of thinking that what we don't personally like in a religion is dogma.

black_tea

Set aside the things that are giving you problems now, and perhaps revisit them at a later date. You may or may not feel differently about some of it. Do realize, however, that just because something doesn't resonate with you, doesn't mean that other people don't benefit from it. Also, I find that despite being a more 'religiousy' buddhist (for lack of a better word, lol) that the school I follow makes me think quite a bit. Ritual, religion, etc. doesn't = no thinking.

I like the fact that Buddhism has different techniques and schools, because we are all different, and what works great for one person won't necessarily for another -- it means more people can have to opportunity to connect with the dharma.

karasti

The way I see it, is Buddhism IS the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path. That is the core, the foundation. All the other "stuff" are mostly things that have come about, whether from Buddha (Siddartha) himself or others along the way, as a way to help practice those core truths. When you read them, they are incredibly simple. As you can tell from posts here, from your own thinking I'm sure, and from anywhere else you read about Buddhist "stuff" putting it into practice is another story. It's very difficult and a huge challenge to walk the walk. So, we need things to help us along, to inspire us, to remind us, to give us and motivation to keep practicing. For me, the other stuff I read, or things I do, support my practice of the core of Buddhism.

There were things I saw others do a year ago that lead me to think "Oooh boy, these are some wacky new agers and I sure would feel foolish doing any of those things." Then in November there I was doing prostrations when I took my refuge vows. Your practice might evolve to include these things. It might not. Either is just fine. When you die you won't be judged on whether you did so many prostrations, what kind incense you had on your altar, how big your Buddha statue was, or which mantras spoke to you. The only thing that really matters in the big picture is how well you strive to practice the core teachings, how you live today, right now. If you don't need the other stuff, you're certainly not obligated to use it.

riverflow

Cinorjer said:

And now I'm hungry for cake. I gotta learn to save these metaphors until after supper.

When I read this earlier today I was on lunch break eating chocolate cake!!

lamaramadingdong

Run it over with your karma.

riverflow

black_tea said:

I like the fact that Buddhism has different techniques and schools, because we are all different, and what works great for one person won't necessarily for another -- it means more people can have to opportunity to connect with the dharma.

All skilful tools to pull out of the Big Buddhist Toolbox!

Jeffrey

Buddhas first sermon gave the teaching of the four noble truths and the eightfold path. But remember his audience were wandering aesthetics who had practiced hard for maybe the past eight years or more. So we have all kinds of teachings other than those given at the first sermon because we don't all have the experiences of those wanderers to help us understand the first sermon. For example Buddha gave the teaching that the world was on fire to a group of fire worshippers. He said it was on fire with the fuel of greed, hatred, and delusion. There are many dharma practices to turn us away from the 8 worldly winds: gain and loss, fame and infamy, pain and pleasure, and praise and blame. There are like 60 years of his life all different teachings. My teacher says that the entire dharma is all to help you have confidence and return you to the dharma from those worldly winds. At least that is what I understand, today.