Please explain this Dhammapada verse?

dhammacitta

"Should a seeker not find a companion who is better or equal, let him resolutely pursue a solitary course; there is no fellowship with the fool." (61) While that is great advice, it's also confusing to me. If you befriend someone better, that's good, but they shouldn't befriend you, because you are inferior in wisdom comparing to them?

person

Lol, I've had the same thought at times. I think maybe sangha means being there for each other even if we or others are defective.

Straight_Man

The seeker is seeking someone to lead and teach, be a mentor and friend, is how I understand that.

Remember this is to a seeker, not to a mature practitioner of the middle way. A mature practitioner can teach others, and teaching is different than fellowshipping with fools. In Buddhism, seekers seek out compatible teachers, and they do not want to be taught by fools.

lamaramadingdong

from another translation: Thomas Byron
"But if you cannot find a friend or master to go with you, travel on alone.
Like a king who has given away his kingdom, like an elephant in the forest.

Travel on alone, rather than with a fool for company. Do not carry with you your mistakes. Do not carry your cares. Travel on alone. Like an elephant in the forest."

My feeling is that the Buddha was saying to trust yourself.

jll

this is one of my favorite verses.
i have never thought of it that way. lol.

however, using your logic, buddha will not hang out with
his disciples since they are all inferior to him in terms of wisdom.

i am quite sure that is not what buddha meant.

my interpretation is if you cant find people who are interested
in dhamma, then it is better to travel alone.

dhammacitta said:

"Should a seeker not find a companion who is better or equal, let him resolutely pursue a solitary course; there is no fellowship with the fool." (61) While that is great advice, it's also confusing to me. If you befriend someone better, that's good, but they shouldn't befriend you, because you are inferior in wisdom comparing to them?

lobster

If you befriend the world, worldly people and those engaged in trivial pursuits, you are less likely to focus on liberation.
Those that steer you well are genuine friends. Most of us are lost and need the companionship of the three jewels.

In time we are able to gain insight from everyone. Initially it is a question of where to place ones alignment . . .

:wave:

pegembara

dhammacitta said:

"Should a seeker not find a companion who is better or equal, let him resolutely pursue a solitary course; there is no fellowship with the fool." (61) While that is great advice, it's also confusing to me. If you befriend someone better, that's good, but they shouldn't befriend you, because you are inferior in wisdom comparing to them?

The fool here refers to someone who has no interest in the Dhamma. This is a person who pursues sensual pleasures, fame and fortune. Someone who thinks only he is right and seeks to bend others to his pov.

These are people who will pull you away from the spiritual path.

genkaku

If we were not all fools, would any of us be on a 'Buddhist path?'

I think the bumper sticker had it right: "Don't believe everything you think." Imagining that there is some other fool is a case of believing what I'd prefer to think. With luck, Buddhist practice encourages an attention that helps to wean me from my home-grown foolishness ... attachments, beliefs, ignorance, selfishness, etc.

Of course there are idjits out there and consorting with them can have serious consequences. But idiocy takes so many forms -- often appearing as benevolent and refined -- that it strikes me as sensible to focus on the fool at my house.

federica

He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool...shun him.

He who knows not, and knows that he knows not, is willing...teach him.

He who knows, and knows not that he knows, is asleep...awaken him.

He who knows, and knows that he knows, is wise...follow him.

(Proverb with several attributed roots.)


Basically, I think this may be a good deal of what the Buddha meant.....

jll

Conceiving so his foolishness the fool is thereby wise, while 'fool' is called that fool conceited that he's wise. Dhammapada.

seeker242

The superiority/ inferiority isn't referring to wisdom IMO. It's referring to how the other people behave. If they behave like fools, it's better to not hang out with them.

It seems that each verse of the Dhammapada has a little story behind it. The story behind it explains the context.

The Story of a Resident Pupil of Thera Mahakassapa

While residing at the Jetavana monastery, the Buddha uttered Verse (61) of this book, with reference to a resident pupil of Thera Mahakassapa.

When Thera Mahakassapa was residing near Rajagaha, he had two young bhikkhus staying with him. One of them was respectful, obedient and dutiful to the thera, but the other one was not. When the old thera chided the latter for his slackness in his duties, he was very much offended. On one occasion, he went to the house of a lay-disciple of the thera, and lied to them that the thera was ill. Thus, he got some choice food from them for the thera; but he ate the food on the way. When admonished by the thera for this he was extremely angry. The next day, when the thera was out on his alms-round, the young foolish bhikkhu stayed behind, broke the pots and pans and set fire to the monastery.

When a bhikkhu from Rajagaha told the Buddha about this, the Buddha said that it would have been much better for Thera Mahakassapa to live alone than to live with a foolish companion.

Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:
Verse 61: If a person seeking a companion cannot find one who is better than or equal to him, let him resolutely go on alone; there can be no companionship with a fool.

Sabre

Some people are wise in certain ways, others are wise in other ways. Two people can learn from each other. It's not like there has to be one mentor and one student.

Cinorjer

Lol! Yeah, the Dhammapada is like the book of Proverbs for Buddhists. It's full of pithy advice but maybe one shouldn't try to find deep insight in some of the practical sayings. Like this. We all know that hanging out with the wrong crowd can be a big mistake and some people can best be described as a "bad influence". But as to practical advice, who is to say someone is "better or equal" to you?

Zero

Children probably need protection for their own good, which in turn is for the good of the protector.
Don't talk to strangers, Don't get into trouble, grow up well within the relatively safe boundaries.
There comes a day though when you're all grown up - even if you aren't ready, your parents will likely leave before you or their sphere of influence will have long since diminished - it seems to me that all the boundaries are in place to prepare for that day - security preserving cherished ways of life.
The challenge in my mind is determining what exactly is a 'fool'.
All too often, it seems an easy scapegoat to avoid boundaries.
I guess though, if one needs to be told not to keep company with fools and this makes perfect sense and seems agreeable, then it is probably good advice for that person lest they be swayed by the influence of a lesser fool!
Delicious irony!!

federica

Cinorjer said:

Lol! Yeah, the Dhammapada is like the book of Proverbs for Buddhists. It's full of pithy advice but maybe one shouldn't try to find deep insight in some of the practical sayings. Like this. We all know that hanging out with the wrong crowd can be a big mistake and some people can best be described as a "bad influence". But as to practical advice, who is to say someone is "better or equal" to you?

What many people fail to realise is that the Dhammapada is basically the whole of the Buddha's teachings, condensed.
It's not so much a 'book of Proverbs' as the whole kit and caboodle....

karasti

I always read it as, don't spend your precious little time with people who have no interest in learning, who pull you away from what you are trying to do, who distract you and cause you to waste your time.

This was actually a really well timed reminder for me:) We have a community/area issue going on and someone created a page on FB and blasted a local who is well intentioned in his concerns for the environment in our area. Except 90% of the locals support the other side, and I jumped in and gave my support to the minority group. But as usual I found myself trying to get these peopel to see things another way, to think about the questions being asked and to determine for themselves if adequate answers exist to those questions. But they wanted nothing of it and continually kept misunderstand and putting words in my mouth that I did not say and so on. Finally I went to bed, and this morning after coming here first, I will simply choose not to go back to that page, as they are the types of fools that this passage reminds me of. They are entitled to their opinion as well as I am, I do not mean they are fools for not agreeing with me. But because they refuse to question, refuse to be open minded (which is typical for this area) I am wasting my time in trying to converse with them. I can better spend my time elsewhere.

Gui

He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool...shun him.

This makes me laugh every time I hear it.
Better, I suppose, we realize we are all fools.
Dualistic thinking causes comparing.
Comparing is judging.
Judging is a fool's errand.

lamaramadingdong

@karasti- is the local's name Steve? More power to him.

karasti

@lamaramadingdong Yes, that's the guy. He's got guts, that's for sure. He's a good man who is standing up for what he believes is right, and he's facing a very small town mentality with a lot of non-educated and misguided opinion that's decades in the making. He has an uphill battle against a lot of fools, and I admire him for taking it on. I tried to get involved in some local discussion to get people to think about some of the questions he raises, but it's best for me to step away. I might need a FB vacation until it dies down, lol. Certainly wouldn't be a bad thing.

pegembara

What many people fail to realise is that the Dhammapada is basically the whole of the Buddha's teachings, condensed.
It's not so much a 'book of Proverbs' as the whole kit and caboodle....

Dhammapada 277-279

Sabbe sankhara anicca, sabbe sankhara dukkha, sabbe dhamma anatta.

When you see with discernment,
'All fabrications are inconstant' —
you grow disenchanted with stress.
This is the path
to purity.

When you see with discernment,
'All fabrications are stressful' —
you grow disenchanted with stress.
This is the path
to purity.

When you see with discernment,
'All phenomena are not-self' —
you grow disenchanted with stress.
This is the path
to purity.

footiam

dhammacitta said:

"Should a seeker not find a companion who is better or equal, let him resolutely pursue a solitary course; there is no fellowship with the fool." (61) While that is great advice, it's also confusing to me. If you befriend someone better, that's good, but they shouldn't befriend you, because you are inferior in wisdom comparing to them?

In preventing a disease, a vaccine is sometimes injected into the human body. When it involves injecting antibodies, the antibodies must be of a certain amount before it could work. I would like to believe that in the case you mentioned, when we find a companion, there should be a certain minimum standard involved. One may be inferior in wisdom but not that inferior that it bugs. Otherwise, the inferior should choose a wiser person as advised but stands the chance to be rejected by the wise one. In that case, the advice is valid. Look for something better. Seek and you will find. Ask but it is not necessary that it should be given.