Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Could a Buddhist believe in 'an eye for an eye' and corporal punishment?
TheEccentric
Hampshire, UK Veteran
I personally believe that some people who are/were unarguably monsters should have/be given an equal punishment for the crimes they have commited for example serial killers such as Ian Brady, I just don't think that people like that should be allowed to live after the awful things they have done.
I think people are far too soft on these people now and I'm all for human rights but surely if someone takes away your rights surely it just fair to take their's away as well?
I think people are far too soft on these people now and I'm all for human rights but surely if someone takes away your rights surely it just fair to take their's away as well?
0
Comments
What if the "monster" were your child? Or your sibling? It's easy to say that you'd just disown them, but that's easier said than done. Even if one of my children did unspeakable acts towards another I would still love them and I would still hope they would be treated like a human being.
I think it's important to remember that those capable of the acts we find the more horrendous, are people who are suffering greatly. People who have normal parents/upbringing, normal environments, and normal brain (and otherwise) development just don't do things like that. They experience, I think, a darkness we cannot even imagine. That doesn't mean we allow them to do whatever they will to innocent people. But we can develop compassion for them as well as their victims.
Have you ever read any books about serial killers, serial rapists and such and their lives? Their upbringings were often filled with similar tortures that they exact on others. That doesn't mean, again, that we excuse their actions. Obviously some people in similar circumstances don't go on to be serial killers. But just as certain factors need to come together for someone to be elected President, certain factors, causes and conditions have to come together for someone to be a serial killer, too.
I don't understand those factors, and neither does anyone else, really. But we can choose to develop compassion for anyone, and it's good for us to do so. Right now, 2 good friends of mine are having their lives, their careers, everything they have worked for, destroyed by a small group of people who just happen to not like how they do things. My friends are not hurting anyone at all and have been working in their field for 40 years but because they people don't like their methods, they are seeking to destroy them, and it's working. Practicing to have compassion for those seeking to destroy my friends hasn't been easy. It's not easy to practice it for my cousin who steals from and lies to my grandma, and it's not easy to practice for the man who almost killed my sister. But practice I do, and the more I do the easier it is to see what dark places they come from, what dark hearts and minds they have to behave the way they do. And I hope and pray for them to someday, someway, somehow, see the light. Even if it takes lifetimes.
he's mentally unhinged.
You think he should be murdered simply because his mind is in a different state to yours? "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
Someone far wiser - and very persecuted - said that.
We just don’t always see it happening in this lifetime.
I think you can be a Buddhist and believe that the universe is ruled by the law of karma and is ultimately just. We don’t even need to bother interfering with punishing or rewarding for ourselves.
Maybe that’s the reason Buddhists don’t need to be so revengeful? Because they believe the law of karma takes care of that?
Personally I think the “law of karma” is far more direct. People who do horrible things are in a horrible state of mind. The punishment is immediate. Just like the reward of a kind act is immediate. People who do a kind act are in a happy state of mind.
I have often thought, however, that if the Buddhists of Cambodia hadn't been so passive with Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, that perhaps 2.2 million people wouldn't have been slaughtered (literally).
However, i dont understand why anybody would want to give someone the death penalty.. Why should we give them peace????
For me, Death equals peace
If a monster commited a horrible crime towards one of my loved ones, i wouldnt want him dead , i would want him kept alive........ So i could torture him and put him through the same amount of pain they put others through....
It's what you would want....
But do you think you would actually be capable of doing it?
But truth is, it all depends to be honest.
I have kids, now im sorry but if we are talking about people doing things that are too hurtful and painful to write on here then i would think yes i could be capable of doing it.
The way i see it is, its all well and good being all nice and buddhist but that shouldnt mean others can get away with doing sick things and im going to be all compassionate and calm just because im a "buddhist"
There is definitely a line for me personally... Sorry!
Someone far wiser - and very persecuted - said that.
Most people are law abiding and moral people so would not end up badly punished, if that were true then in biblical times when that was upheld they would of been blind and toothless.
Regardless of his mental condition if I were one of the children he heartlessly murdered I would of hoped that some one would have put things right and help him feel the pain he put upon me.
And besides I'm pretty sure Hitler wasn't right mentally either but that isn't at all an excuse for what he did.
And besides in prison it is the tax payer who has to pay to keep him alive.
4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.
5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.
6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.
Dhammapada, chapter 1
~~~~~~~~~~
This doesn't mean society should not hold criminals responsible for their actions and the harm they cause, but the law ideally should operate in an impartial way.
As far as the death penalty goes, in the context of the precepts, the death penalty runs counter to it.
How many criminals have we imprisoned and/or executed already who turned out innocent after all? What we do? Shrug our shoulders and just say "oops, sorry dude, we screwed up"?
And how can we judge whether someone should die and have no hope of reforming themselves? Does placing dotted lines around the murderer to separate him from "us" let everyone "us" off the hook? How does a killer learn to devalue life in order to kill? Murderers do not just spring up out of a vacuum. Last I checked, I saw no fine print by the precept to not kill that made special exceptions for people that get us emotionally worked up.
"Eliminating undesirables" by executing criminals or just locking them up without any opportunity for rehabilitation within prison seems lazy to me and indicates a lack of social responsibility. They should be locked up-- not for our emotional gratification, but for the benefit of the safety of society and potential future victims, for the benefit of the victim and his/her family who grieve and whose emotional well-being has suffered greatly-- and for the benefit of the criminal, in order to provide an opportunity for reformation (even if they never do get released later in life).
The law should act out of impartiality, not the self gratification of ignoble desires-- even if we do find the criminal's act despicable. The death penalty should have gone the way of the medieval world. It teaches us nothing.
But it sure feels good to strike back, don't it? We don't ask ourselves: Where does that feeling come from? We should put aside such baseness. It does no one any good-- it only perpetuates base emotions which lead to further suffering for everyone.
Killing is never skillful and as a properly practicing Buddhist, one should condemn any killing of other living beings, even when those beings are murderers and rapists. The Dalai Lama recently said the Delhi gang rapists, who engaged in a brutal gang rape and murder of a woman on a bus in New Delhi, should not be executed and that the death penalty is not the answer.
As for the buddha himself, when asked if there was anything whose killing he approved of, the Buddha answered that there was only one thing: anger. In no recorded instance did he approve of killing any living being at all. When one of his monks went to an executioner and told the man to kill his victims compassionately, with one blow, rather than torturing them, the Buddha expelled the monk from the Sangha, on the grounds that even the recommendation to kill compassionately is still a recommendation to kill, something he would never condone. The Buddha taught that the death penalty is not wise.
Of course people can believe whatever they want. But if someone has a real and sincere desire to practice and follow Buddhism, it would be prudent to know what the Buddha himself said about such things. At least in the USA, executing a person, on average, costs much more tax payer money than is spent to put the person in prison for life.
There was a study in California to examine the costs. Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year. The cost of the present death penalty system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year. The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.
So death penalty costs CA 137 million to over 200 million a year. While life in prison costs CA 11 million a year. It's quite similar throughout all of the USA. The death penalty is extremely expensive to taxpayers. Life in prison is much, much cheaper!
Last year, a kid 6 years older than my then 9 year old, pulled him off his bike and punched him enough to bruise him and knock the wind out of him. (hardly serious when you consider what things happen to other kids of course). I could have handled it any number of ways. First, I tried to talk to him and when met with threats against my other kids, I called law enforcement. They talked to us, and to the teenager and he has not crossed paths with us again. But with my own kids, I used it as an opportunity say "yeah, he did something wrong and he should not have done it. But look where he comes from. Look what he is lacking compared to your life. He has a mother that doesn't care if he eats, and a father who just got released from prison for sexually abusing him. So, while it's ok to initially feel scared and angry, remember what you have and he does not: a family to come home to when things go wrong, to get hugs from, to look out for you. He doesn't have that, and for that, we can have compassion for him even if we strongly disagree with his choice in actions." Anything can be a lesson in compassion if that is the road we choose. Anger and revenge does not serve anyone well. Initially I actually yelled at the kid and later I apologized for what I said. I don't agree with him punching my child. But I feel a great degree of compassion for that boy, and I practice for him every single day.
Anger is a choice. It does not have to be a given. Many people who are forced into horrible things make wise decisions on how it impacts their lives. Others choose the road of anger and hate and revenge. They don't usually come out on the upside of anything.
I could never understand why people would allow these dictators to abuse their power. One crazy monarch or emperor can damage an entire population. Wouldn't that make passive people share in the responsibility for allowing it?
It is about “being” the rapist of a young girl.
What is Buddhism worth if it makes us capable of opening our hearts for people who are kind and friendly?
Opening our hearts for - or “being” - a rapist doesn’t mean we encourage rape but whatever we do to prevent it in the future or to deal with the perpetrator comes from a place of compassion; not from a place of hate and revenge.
I can't believe so many so-called 'practising would-be Buddhists' would not only harbour such thoughts, but actually cultivate them.
Not impressed.
"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."
--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
That is how a nation's collective mentality can be influenced.
Two things determine the populace's level of fear: Two tools are exploited by those in power, to keep people 'in line'.
The threat of War, and the threat of Eternal Damnation in Hell.
Military might, and the need for national Aggression
and
Religion.
For Evil to Triumph it is merely necessary that Good men do nothing.
Yet if one were to examine the annals of history, in every conflict there were those who 'stood up' to this insanity, and did good, in order to save others.
I'd rather think I would be one of those, than one of the 'sheep' who blindly followed and didn't ask questions for fear of making waves.
Those here who advocate violence, and an eye for an eye, seem to me, to fall into the unskilful 'sheep' category.
My opinion.
Dont me me laugh...
I think its sick how much people get away with such disgusting crimes..
Putting them in prison is luxury these days...
Prison is a punishment and a deterent not just to prevent the criminal from repeating the crime.
The only reason why some people dont like prision is because of the other inmates ... (Not because of the prison itself)
The way prisons are run,it really is luxury... Just think, you could just sit in your cell all day if you want and meditate....
Ive heard of people who re-offend crimes just so they can go back to prison...... That only indicates one thing, prison aint that much of a punishmnt
A Sufi saying.
A life is a life as far as Buddhist practice, right? What if there was a dangerous dog roaming the neighborhood, and it attacks and kills a child. Once the dog is captured, it is clear that it is fierce and will likely attack again. Is the same compassion required? I know the answer should be yes.