Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
"Emily often uses psychedelics, and that's that's why I want her to babysit my infant daughter."
"Bill is a pothead, so he's the perfect English teacher I want for my son." (I actually have a story about that one).
"I think it's okay for the pilot of the 747 I'll be flying on to Hawaii to use amphetamines."
"I want my teenaged daughter to use ecstasy at her next party."
Do you drink at all?
Insert drinking into any of those and we get the same message.
It's weird that you had one about weed because out of the drugs you mentioned, weed is the only one that nobody has ever died from overdosing on.
When I was 18 I started social drinking, then stopped 100% at around age 24...and I'm, 63 now. So, sorry, your response doesn't hold water (or alcohol) with me.
But your last sentence sort of made a point I'm trying to make obliquely. The arguments (even for weed) almost always center around the idea of it isn't any worse than _____. Not that it's good for you or a positive influence on American culture or __________.
Oh, but it does indeed have benefits if not abused. But I've said all I intend to say on the subject now. I think you guys get my point.
I think Thich Nhat Hanh's commentary on the fifth precept in For a Future to Be Possible: Commentaries on the Five Wonderful Precepts gives good perspectives related to certain issues brought up in some recent comments. The following are some excerpts, the full version is available here: http://dharma.ncf.ca/introduction/precepts/precept-5.html
TNH's Interpretation of the Fifth Precept (summarized version):
Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful consumption, I vow to cultivate good health, both physical and mental, for myself, my family, and my society by practicing mindful eating, drinking, and consuming. I vow to ingest only items that preserve peace, well-being, and joy in my body, in my consciousness, and in the collective body and consciousness of my family and society. I am determined not to use alcohol or any other intoxicant or to ingest foods or other items that contain toxins, such as certain TV programs, magazines, books, films, and conversations. I am aware that to damage my body or my consciousness with these poisons is to betray my ancestors, my parents, my society, and future generations. I will work to transform violence, fear, anger, and confusion in myself and in society by practicing [mindful consumption] for myself and for society. I understand that [mindful consumption] is crucial for self-transformation and for the transformation of society.
TNH's commentary on the fifth precept:
......
There are people who drink alcohol and get drunk, who destroy their bodies, their families, their society. They should refrain from drinking. But you who have been having a glass of wine every week during the last thirty years without doing any harm to yourself, why should you stop that? What is the use of practicing this precept if drinking alcohol does not harm you or other people? Although you have not harmed yourself during the last thirty years by drinking just one or two glasses of wine every week, the fact is that it may have an effect on your children, your grandchildren, and your society. We only need to look deeply in order to see it. You are practicing not for yourself alone, but for everyone. Your children might have a propensity for alcoholism and, seeing you drinking wine every week, one of them may become alcoholic in the future. If you abandon your two glasses of wine, it is to show your children, your friends, and your society that your life is not only for yourself. Your life is for your ancestors, future generations, and also your society. To stop drinking two glasses of wine every week is a very deep practice, even if it has not brought you any harm. That is the insight of a bodhisattva who knows that everything she does is done for all her ancestors and future generations. The emptiness of transmission is the basis of the Fifth Precept. The use of drugs by so many young people should also be stopped with the same kind of insight.
.....
"Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful consumption, I vow to cultivate good health, both physical and mental, for myself, my family, and my society..." Because you are not doing it only for yourself, to stop drinking one or two glasses of wine a week is truly an act of a bodhisattva. You do it for everyone. At a reception, when someone offers you a glass of wine, you can smile and decline, "No, thank you. I do not drink alcohol. I would be grateful if you would bring me a glass of juice or water." You do it gently, with a smile. This is very helpful. You set an example for many friends, including many children who are present. Although that can be done in a very polite, quiet way, it is truly the act of a bodhisattva, setting an example by your own life.
........
We need to be protected because the toxins are overwhelming. They are destroying our society, our families, and ourselves. We have to use everything in our power to protect ourselves. Discussions on this subject will bring about important ideas, such as to how to protect ourselves from destructive television broadcasts. We also have to discuss in our families and communities which magazines that we and our children enjoy reading, and we should boycott those magazines that spill toxins into our society. Not only should we refrain from reading them, but we should also make an effort to warn people of the danger of reading and consuming these kinds of products. The same is true of books and conversations.
........
Aware of the fact that there are this many toxins in my body and consciousness, aware of the fact that I am ingesting this and that toxin into my body and consciousness every day, making myself sick and causing suffering to my beloved ones, I am determined to prescribe for myself a proper diet. I vow to ingest only items that preserve well-being, peace, and joy in my body and my consciousness. I am determined not to ingest more toxins into my body and consciousness.
Therefore, I will refrain from ingesting into my body and consciousness these things, and I will make a list of them. We know that there are many items that are nutritious, healthy, and delightful that we can consume every day. When we refrain from drinking alcohol, there are so many delicious and wholesome alternatives: fruit juices, teas, mineral waters. We don't have to deprive ourselves of the joys of living, not at all. There are many beautiful, informative, and entertaining programs on television. There are many excellent books and magazines to read. There are many wonderful people and many healthy subjects to talk about. By vowing to consume only items that preserve our well-being, peace, and joy, and the well-being, peace, and joy of our family and society, we need not deprive ourselves of the joys of living. Practicing this third exercise brings us deep peace and joy.
......
I do not see any other way than the practice of these bodhisattva precepts. We have to practice them as a society in order to produce the dramatic changes we need. To practice as a society will be possible only if each of us vows to practice as a bodhisattva... It is not a matter of enjoying one glass of wine. If you stop drinking your glass of wine, you do it for the whole society. We know that the Fifth Precept is exactly like the first one. When you practice non-killing and you know how to protect the lives of even small animals, you realize that eating less meat has do with the practice of the precept. If you are not able to entirely stop eating meat, at least make an effort to reduce eating meat......
No one can practice the precepts perfectly, including the Buddha. The vegetarian dishes that were offered to him were not entirely vegetarian. Boiled vegetables contain dead bacteria. We cannot practice the First Precept or any of the precepts perfectly. But because of the real danger in our society--alcoholism has destroyed so many families and has brought about much unhappiness--we have to do something. We have to live in a way that will eradicate that kind of damage. That is why even if you can be very healthy with one glass of wine every week, I still urge you with all my strength to abandon that glass of wine.
I would also like to say something about not using drugs. As alcohol has been the plague of one generation, drugs are the plague of another. One young girl in Australia told me that she did not know anyone in her age group who does not take drugs of one kind or another. Often young people who have taken drugs come to meditation centers to deal with the problem of facing life as it is. They are often talented and sensitive people--painters, poets and writers--and by becoming addicted to drugs they have, to a small or large extent, destroyed some brain cells. It means that they now have little stability or staying power, and are prone to sleeplessness and nightmares. We do what we can to encourage them to stay for a course of training in the meditation center, but because they are easily disillusioned, they tend to leave when things become difficult. Those who have been addicted to drugs need discipline. I am not sure that a meditation center like Plum Village is the best place to cure victims of drug addiction. I think that experts and specialists in this field are better equipped than we are. A meditation center should be able to receive educators and specialists in drug addiction as well as the victims of drug addiction for short courses in meditation to make its resources available where they are truly needed.
The practice that we offer is that of the Fifth Precept, to prevent someone from becoming involved with drugs in the first place..... The Fifth Precept tells us to find wholesome, spiritual nourishment, not only for ourselves but also for our children and future generations. Wholesome, spiritual nourishment can be found in the moon, the spring blossoms, or the eyes of a child. The most basic meditation practices of becoming aware of our bodies, our minds, and our world can lead us into a far more rich and fulfilling state than drugs could ever do. We can celebrate the joys that are available in the simplest pleasures.
I think Thich Nhat Hanh's commentary on the fifth precept in For a Future to Be Possible: Commentaries on the Five Wonderful Precepts gives good perspectives related to certain issues brought up in some recent comments. The following are some excerpts, the full version is available here: http://dharma.ncf.ca/introduction/precepts/precept-5.html
TNH's Interpretation of the Fifth Precept (summarized version):
Wow, not bad for an old dude! I think I'll go flush my kind down the toilet.
I really enjoy TNH's version of the precepts/mindfulness trainings and I use those for guidance moreso than just deciding for myself what the one-line precepts should mean for me.
Yes,@Jeffrey, but I think what TNH points to is that not everyone is capable of moderate consumption. You yourself might be able to stop at your limit of XXX amount of alcohol, but someone else who tries to follow your example might fail and end up drinking more than that. So since alcohol is addictive and not everyone has strong enough will-power, we should set the example of total abstinence.
If you read the link to the full text I provided above, TNH says:
Alcohol is addictive. One drop brings about another. That is why you are encouraged to stop even one glass of wine. One glass can bring about a second glass. Although the spirit is the same as the First Precept, you are strongly recommended not to take the first glass of wine. When you see that we are in great danger, refraining from the first glass of wine is a manifestation of your enlightenment. You do it for all of us. We have to set an example for our children and our friends. On French television they say, "One glass is all right, but three glasses will bring about destruction." (Un verre ça va; trois verres bonjour les dégâts.) They do not say that the first glass brings about the second, and the second brings about the third. They don't say that, because they belong to a civilization of wine. Here in Plum Village, in the Bordeaux region of France, we are surrounded by wine. Many of our neighbors are surprised that we don't profit from being in this area, but we are a pocket of resistance. Please help us.
Dean Orntz wrote a book about diet where he shows there is a spectrum. Just because you don't eat super healthy does not mean there is no middle ground. So smoking bud/pot/dope/wacky tobacky/weed etc just a few times a week is a middle ground. It's important to notice we have choices and it is not just a finger pointing at us to be all or nothing.
My guru has nothing to say about it and doesn't seem to care if I have a drink or a bong hit now and then so , is it OK with you if I follow his lead instead of yours?
That said I think it's totally awesome that you're willing to sacrifice so much for the sake of beings. How does a tetotaler set such an example? Do you go to bars, keggers, crack houses, MMJ dispensaries and Pfish concerts and not drink or use drugs ? How does anyone notice? Don't you run the risk of being a complete buzz-kill instead of turning their minds to the Dharma? Don't they mistake you for Christian? :wow: :eek2:
Thanks for the reminder. Fully clothed women never use drugs. I'm so sick of t's and a's selling every damn thing! I'll tell you what's intoxicating to men, alright....and I'm not talking about a pill or a joint.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "puritan" so I can't respond to that comment directly. What I can say is that according to the Sutta Pitaka and Mahanyana Sutras, the Buddhas and the Bodhisatvas gave utmost importance to purity of the mind and conduct. I'll just quote a couple of examples.
From the Dhammapada, summarizing the teaching of all Buddhas:
To abstain from all evil, to cultivate good, and to purify one's mind. This is the teaching of all Buddhas.
From the Avatamsaka Sutra, on the ten great vows of Bodhisattva Samantabhadra:
Before the Buddha’s "Lions Among Men," Through out the worlds of the ten directions, in the past, in the present, and also in the future, With Body, Speech and Mind entirely pure, I bow down before them all, omitting none.
.....
I now transfer all good roots, and I vow To perform deeds of wisdom identical to his. I vow that my body, speech and mind will be forever pure, And that all practices and lands will be also. I vow in every way to be identical To the wisdom of Samantabhadra. I will wholly purify Samantabhadra’s conduct, And the great vows of Manjushri as well.
......
When the great Bodhisattva Samantabhadra finished speaking these pure verses on the great Vows of Samantabhadra before the Buddha, the youth Sudhana was overwhelmed with boundless joy. All the Bodhisattvas were extremely happy as well, and the Buddha applauded saying "Good indeed, Good Indeed."
My guru has nothing to say about it and doesn't seem to care if I have a drink or a bong hit now and then so, is it OK with you if I follow his lead instead of yours?
Yes of course. Everyone must decide for themselves how they want to practice. I am merely presenting one perspective that I agree with. If anyone else happens to find what TNH says about the fifth precept useful then that would be great. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others won't find it useful for their practice.
That said I think it's totally awesome that you're willing to sacrifice so much for the sake of beings.
In respect of the fifth precept, I never claim to be sacrificing for the sake of beings. Actually, the main motivation for me in observing this precept is more for my own benefit than for others. Nonetheless, I believe that many people on this forum are aspiring to become a bodhisattva and thus I thought TNH's perspective of linking the fifth precept to the practice of a bodhisattva may resonate with them. That's why I posted it here.
How does a tetotaler set such an example? Do you go to bars, keggers, crack houses, MMJ dispensaries and Pfish concerts and not drink or use drugs ? How does anyone notice? Don't you run the risk of being a complete buzz-kill instead of turning their minds to the Dharma?
I go to bars/pubs sometimes with my friends who drink. I laugh and have fun with them and I am sure none of them regard me as a "buzz-kill". In fact my friends and acquaintances happen to be open-minded enough to accept non-drinkers into their social life - I do get invited by a lot of drinkers to their social functions. I think it is only the small minority of drinkers who would exclude non-drinkers out of their social life.
Anyways, I think the main direct influence our behaviour can have is on our family, circle of friends and children. And of course only some of them may follow our example. But there can be kind of a ripple effect, where their change in behaviour will then go on to influence some of the people in their own family and circle of friends and so forth. Also, it is about contributing to create a norm in society (or in societies where abstinence is already a norm, then your behaviour helps to reinforce that norm). The more non-drinkers and non-drug users there are, the more of a norm it becomes in a certain society/community (or if it is already a norm then the norm becomes reinforced) and the less of a problem that society/community should have with alcoholism and drug abuse.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "puritan" so I can't respond to that comment directly.
Did you try looking up the word?
What I was referring to is a religiously strict postion, similar to religious positions espoused by the Puritans. Forgive me, but my usage was not exactly complimentary of your position.
I think what TNH points to is that not everyone is capable of moderate consumption. You yourself might be able to stop at your limit of XXX amount of alcohol, but someone else who tries to follow your example might fail and end up drinking more than that. So since alcohol is addictive and not everyone has strong enough will-power, we should set the example of total abstinence.
This reads as if your position is that "we" should all totally abstain from drugs and alchohol because some people can't handle it. This is a patently absurd line of reasoning, even from a Buddhist perspective.
You also state:
Yes of course. Everyone must decide for themselves how they want to practice. I am merely presenting one perspective that I agree with.
I take this to be your intent, but your posting tends to contradict that. If you really believe (and I accept that you do) that we are free to choose how we practice, it seems a bit contradictory to also offer that "we" "should" do something practice-wise, especially when lacking credentials to instruct others in matters of practice.
What I can say is that according to the Sutta Pitaka and Mahanyana Sutras, the Buddhas and the Bodhisatvas gave utmost importance to purity of the mind and conduct.
Do you know what sort of "purity" this refers to? It refers to what is taught as "Threefold Purity". This is often illustrated as "no, gift no giver, no recipient". Put another way a Buddha/Bodhisattva's intention and motivation is empty of self, empty of practice and empty of result. This is not something you "do" like quit drinking or smoking pot.
The more non-drinkers and non-drug users there are, the more of a norm it becomes in a certain society/community (or if it is already a norm then the norm becomes reinforced) and the less of a problem that society/community should have with alcoholism and drug abuse.
Interesting, but pointless. In our society (USA) drinking is considered to be something of an inalienable right and media and social pressures to drink are enormous. Expecting people to quit drinking because of our individual example is rather pointless, because it will never work ,because cultural influences will trump your example every single time. As far as drugs go, consider my state, Colorado. We just legalized pot last fall. It's now as "wrong" as drinking. Using a substance like alchohol of cannabis is not, strictly speaking, a problem for the vast majority, even for those who do have problem, your or my shining example won't change or prevent much, provided our own consumption isn't problematic itself.
So, to expect us to quit drinking because you think "we" "should" is really kinda ridiculous.
What I was referring to is a religiously strict postion, similar to religious positions espoused by the Puritans.
......
I take this to be your intent, but your posting tends to contradict that. If you really believe (and I accept that you do) that we are free to choose how we practice, it seems a bit contradictory to also offer that "we" "should" do something practice-wise, especially when lacking credentials to instruct others in matters of practice.
Actually, I always thought the word "should" is different to "must", where the latter indicates complete strictness, whereas "should" is weaker and expresses a recommendation. That is why I normally use "should" rather than "must" (In fact I can't remember the last time I used "must" in a comment on this forum)
"Must" is most commonly used to express certainty. It can also be used to express necessity or strong recommendation, although native speakers prefer the more flexible form "have to." "Must not" can be used to prohibit actions, but this sounds very severe; speakers prefer to use softer modal verbs such as "should not" or "ought not" to dissuade rather than prohibit.
MUST: This word, or the terms "REQUIRED" or "SHALL", mean that the definition is an absolute requirement of the specification.
SHOULD: This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a particular item, but the full implications must be understood and carefully weighed before choosing a different course
With regard to your comment saying "...especially when lacking credentials to instruct others in matters of practice", I would like to respond by saying that this is exactly why I would normally quote text directly from the scriptures or the teachings of respected teachers. If you look at my history of comments in this forum you will notice it is my style to quote the original source because I do realise I am not a qualified instructor and therefore, I provide the original material so that everyone can have a chance to learn directly from qualified sources. I may offer my interpretation, but people are always free to verify such interpretation themselves by reading the original source that I provide. In the present instance, I quoted TNH (a qualified instructor) extensively and everyone can read what he says and decide for themselves what those words mean.
Do you know what sort of "purity" this refers to? It refers to what is taught as "Threefold Purity". This is often illustrated as "no, gift no giver, no recipient". Put another way a Buddha/Bodhisattva's intention and motivation is empty of self, empty of practice and empty of result. This is not something you "do" like quit drinking or smoking pot.
Hmmm, but that doesn't change the fact that Buddhism is about purity because here you say that there are in fact three aspects of purity that is being taught. The goal is thus still to achieve purity, which was my point.
This reads as if your position is that "we" should all totally abstain from drugs and alchohol because some people can't handle it. This is a patently absurd line of reasoning, even from a Buddhist perspective.
Actually, I believe TNH says that in the context of a Boddhisatva's practice, the underlying motivation for abstinence is one of compassion. Boddhisatvas care about those people who might become addicted to alcohol and the harm this causes to themselves and others and therefore s/he becomes motivated to set the example of abstinence. I believe this line of reasoning is absolutely a Buddhist one.
Interesting, but pointless. In our society (USA) drinking is considered to be something of an inalienable right and media and social pressures to drink are enormous. Expecting people to quit drinking because of our individual example is rather pointless, because it will never work ,because cultural influences will trump your example every single time. As far as drugs go, consider my state, Colorado. We just legalized pot last fall. It's now as "wrong" as drinking. Using a substance like alchohol of cannabis is not, strictly speaking, a problem for the vast majority, even for those who do have problem, your or my shining example won't change or prevent much, provided our own consumption isn't problematic itself.
So, to expect us to quit drinking because you think "we" "should" is really kinda ridiculous.
Well, I guess we just see things differently. I don't think cultural influences trumps every time. There is always the potential to influence someone else's behaviour especially those who are close to us. Also, societal norms can change and that is why it is important that everyone play their part in causing this change.
Should I stop smoking because others might start? I guess so. Should I stop tanning because others might get hurt. Should I eat an optimal (not just good) diet to stop others from ailing? (to have longer life to practice) Should I exercise more to reach others? Does Thich Nhat Hanh work out in a gym three times per week? (to raise energy to practice) Should I stop drinking coffee because it makes anxious? Should I get a flu shot to encourage that in others? Should I stop playing video games because it distracts me from the practice. Should I be celibate to encourage others? Should I stop casual sex because TNH doesn't recommend it?
I understand TNH has a right to state these and he has good intentions. But I also respect my own choices and I refuse to look down on myself because someone else has a vision of the proper life.
Jeffrey, no one is saying you should look down on yourself. Especially as a Theravadan, I regard the practice of the Boddhisattva as a very high level practice. Personally, I am aiming for arahantship and the Boddhisattva's path seems too difficult for me. Just because there are many scriptures that praise the Boddhisattva's path over than of an arahant and many teachers say we should aspire to become the former rather than the latter, that doesn't make me look down on myself. In fact I find writings which talk about making great sacrifices for the sake of other beings very inspiring.
@karmablues, I am in a mahayana sangha but I mostly practice with the shravaka view of non-clinging to skhandas. Not everyone in Tibetan Buddhism practices tantra or even the bodhisattva path. I try to be kind to others, but a few times in my life I have shut out others to protect myself such as a kid with a suitcase who wanted to stay in my apartment in college. I do try to learn from the mahayana sutras.
Comments
http://dharma.ncf.ca/introduction/precepts/precept-5.html
TNH's Interpretation of the Fifth Precept (summarized version): TNH's commentary on the fifth precept:
On second thought ........
If you read the link to the full text I provided above, TNH says:
My guru has nothing to say about it and doesn't seem to care if I have a drink or a bong hit now and then so , is it OK with you if I follow his lead instead of yours?
That said I think it's totally awesome that you're willing to sacrifice so much for the sake of beings. How does a tetotaler set such an example? Do you go to bars, keggers, crack houses, MMJ dispensaries and Pfish concerts and not drink or use drugs ? How does anyone notice? Don't you run the risk of being a complete buzz-kill instead of turning their minds to the Dharma? Don't they mistake you for Christian?
:wow: :eek2:
Let's get high.
dharma addict......? ......... meditation junky .......... ? excuse me while i step away from the keyboard to WRETCH VIOLENTLY......
Fully clothed women never use drugs.
I'm so sick of t's and a's selling every damn thing!
I'll tell you what's intoxicating to men, alright....and
I'm not talking about a pill or a joint.
Ok...I'm done.
From the Dhammapada, summarizing the teaching of all Buddhas: From the Avatamsaka Sutra, on the ten great vows of Bodhisattva Samantabhadra: Yes of course. Everyone must decide for themselves how they want to practice. I am merely presenting one perspective that I agree with. If anyone else happens to find what TNH says about the fifth precept useful then that would be great. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others won't find it useful for their practice. In respect of the fifth precept, I never claim to be sacrificing for the sake of beings. Actually, the main motivation for me in observing this precept is more for my own benefit than for others. Nonetheless, I believe that many people on this forum are aspiring to become a bodhisattva and thus I thought TNH's perspective of linking the fifth precept to the practice of a bodhisattva may resonate with them. That's why I posted it here. I go to bars/pubs sometimes with my friends who drink. I laugh and have fun with them and I am sure none of them regard me as a "buzz-kill". In fact my friends and acquaintances happen to be open-minded enough to accept non-drinkers into their social life - I do get invited by a lot of drinkers to their social functions. I think it is only the small minority of drinkers who would exclude non-drinkers out of their social life.
Anyways, I think the main direct influence our behaviour can have is on our family, circle of friends and children. And of course only some of them may follow our example. But there can be kind of a ripple effect, where their change in behaviour will then go on to influence some of the people in their own family and circle of friends and so forth. Also, it is about contributing to create a norm in society (or in societies where abstinence is already a norm, then your behaviour helps to reinforce that norm). The more non-drinkers and non-drug users there are, the more of a norm it becomes in a certain society/community (or if it is already a norm then the norm becomes reinforced) and the less of a problem that society/community should have with alcoholism and drug abuse.
You also state: I take this to be your intent, but your posting tends to contradict that. If you really believe (and I accept that you do) that we are free to choose how we practice, it seems a bit contradictory to also offer that "we" "should" do something practice-wise, especially when lacking credentials to instruct others in matters of practice.
Do you know what sort of "purity" this refers to? It refers to what is taught as "Threefold Purity". This is often illustrated as "no, gift no giver, no recipient". Put another way a Buddha/Bodhisattva's intention and motivation is empty of self, empty of practice and empty of result. This is not something you "do" like quit drinking or smoking pot. Interesting, but pointless. In our society (USA) drinking is considered to be something of an inalienable right and media and social pressures to drink are enormous. Expecting people to quit drinking because of our individual example is rather pointless, because it will never work ,because cultural influences will trump your example every single time. As far as drugs go, consider my state, Colorado. We just legalized pot last fall. It's now as "wrong" as drinking. Using a substance like alchohol of cannabis is not, strictly speaking, a problem for the vast majority, even for those who do have problem, your or my shining example won't change or prevent much, provided our own consumption isn't problematic itself.
So, to expect us to quit drinking because you think "we" "should" is really kinda ridiculous.
From http://www.grammar-quizzes.com/modal3.html: From http://www.englishpage.com/modals/must.html: From http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119: With regard to your comment saying "...especially when lacking credentials to instruct others in matters of practice", I would like to respond by saying that this is exactly why I would normally quote text directly from the scriptures or the teachings of respected teachers. If you look at my history of comments in this forum you will notice it is my style to quote the original source because I do realise I am not a qualified instructor and therefore, I provide the original material so that everyone can have a chance to learn directly from qualified sources. I may offer my interpretation, but people are always free to verify such interpretation themselves by reading the original source that I provide. In the present instance, I quoted TNH (a qualified instructor) extensively and everyone can read what he says and decide for themselves what those words mean. Hmmm, but that doesn't change the fact that Buddhism is about purity because here you say that there are in fact three aspects of purity that is being taught. The goal is thus still to achieve purity, which was my point. Actually, I believe TNH says that in the context of a Boddhisatva's practice, the underlying motivation for abstinence is one of compassion. Boddhisatvas care about those people who might become addicted to alcohol and the harm this causes to themselves and others and therefore s/he becomes motivated to set the example of abstinence. I believe this line of reasoning is absolutely a Buddhist one. Well, I guess we just see things differently. I don't think cultural influences trumps every time. There is always the potential to influence someone else's behaviour especially those who are close to us. Also, societal norms can change and that is why it is important that everyone play their part in causing this change.
I understand TNH has a right to state these and he has good intentions. But I also respect my own choices and I refuse to look down on myself because someone else has a vision of the proper life.