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Does it really matter what our past karma was?
hermitwin
Veteran
there have been quite a number of people
who argued that it is not important what our past karma
was.
some say it is pointless to speculate becos buddha said
that besides karma, there are other factors involved.
let's take an example.
if a baby boy is born to a woman who was raped, he will
have a difficult start in life. His father, the rapist is unlikely
to be in his life. And his mother will have to deal with the
trauma.
ok, so according to buddha, this boy was born in this
situation partly due to his past karma. yes, buddha also
said karma is not the only factor.
yet, karma is the only factor that is within our control.
so, do you still think it is a waste of time to think about
how your past karma has contibuted to your present predicament?
who argued that it is not important what our past karma
was.
some say it is pointless to speculate becos buddha said
that besides karma, there are other factors involved.
let's take an example.
if a baby boy is born to a woman who was raped, he will
have a difficult start in life. His father, the rapist is unlikely
to be in his life. And his mother will have to deal with the
trauma.
ok, so according to buddha, this boy was born in this
situation partly due to his past karma. yes, buddha also
said karma is not the only factor.
yet, karma is the only factor that is within our control.
so, do you still think it is a waste of time to think about
how your past karma has contibuted to your present predicament?
0
Comments
Personally, yes I think asking "What if I did xxx?" is a waste of time. Like asking "What if?" and dwelling on the past. The present is what matters. So if my illness is due to karma from a previous life where I was abominable, then I will use the present, here and NOW to ensure I come from a place of metta.
In metta,
Raven
Being mindful of your present actions is the only thing we need to think about. Being aware of possible karmic slip-ups is fine, it keeps you on the path, but to worry and ponder over it is not right thought. ( IMO, as always
But your past karma doesn't effect your decisions once you've gotten yourself here. In that manner, past karma doesn't matter at all. It is your situation that limits your actions now, not past karma.
and 5 minutes ago is also our past karma.
As per the Upajjhatthana Sutta: Thich Nhat Hanh phrases the fifth remembrance practice into more plain wording as follows: There are many benefits that can be gained from contemplation on karma:
1) When we acknowledge that we ourselves create the causes of our life experiences by our own thoughts and deeds whose results we must experience, then in this way, we can learn to take full responsibility for our lives. In Ven. Thubton Chodron's words: "Because we create the causes for our own future, we have responsibility. If we want happiness, we must create the causes of happiness; no one else can do it for us. Since we don't want suffering, it's up to us to abandon the causes of suffering. So [the law of karma] places the responsibility for our lives directly upon us."
2) As our contemplation on karma develops, we internalize the fact that all our actions will always produce an effect. So our mindset becomes more in tune with the following verses of the Buddha as recorded in the Udanavarga: As we internalize this fact, we become less inclined to write off the little things as "Oh, this doesn't matter", or "Just this once". We also become more mindful of our thoughts and deeds in order to more carefully guard against that which is unskillful. In these ways, our virtue becomes more refined.
3) Contemplation on karma also helps us to develop equanimity because we see how things arise due to causes and conditions, and how the effect has been determined by such causes and conditions, not by our wishes. In this way we learn to just accept things as they are and to let go of trying to control the results.
Now, even though situations that occur to us may to some degree have been brought to fruition by our past actions which cannot be changed, but in every present moment we still have the power of choice to react to a certain situation either skillfully or unskillfully. If our past conditioning limits our ability to react skillfully, then we should strive to abandon these unskillful habitual tendencies and develop that which is skillful instead. This is something that is within everyone's reach, as the Buddha affirmed in the Kusala Sutta:
Better to do the best we can here now as to further growth instead of stagnating in the land of What if.
Maybe I am just not knowledgeable enough, or I am missing something big here, but if you believe in Karma, and your existence matters to you, then for me the answer is very simple: YES!
I also think that there is a difference between becoming sour, melancholic, negative about circumstances and pondering over the 'whys', and on the other hand, acceptance. For me, there is something about the question, which is explicitly grounded in acceptance.
Sorry I can not explain my thoughts further, or present them in a clearer way.
morbid and what buddha taught.
buddha suggested we think about our death often, everyday.
oh, how morbid is that!
Still that's now getting off topic. My apologies /theology mode off.
In metta,
Raven
Karma basically means "fruit of work(s)," and can be used as a tool for dismissing the human realities before you due to people just getting what they deserve. I believe that a spiritual seeker would only point the finger of karma inward and say, "I brought this on myself." (Thus spoke Swami Vivekananda when he said we have only ourselves to blame [in matters spiritual].) BUT it is simply Philistine, IMO, to point the finger outward and say people are only getting what they deserve.
Compassion is the only scale on which to measure karma, be it ours or "theirs."
Does it really matter what our past karma was?
Who can answer this question definitively?
I myself am a blank slate theorist on this matter, though. It's what you make of your current life, starting at whatever point you can either choose or best manage, that matters. Life is an adventure and we are not born as slaves to our karma unless we so choose.
How else did Angulimala attained arahantship after killing so many people?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.086.than.html
Bloody-handed
I used to be,
renowned as Angulimala.
See my going for refuge!
Uprooted is [craving],
the guide to becoming.
Having done the type of kamma
that would lead to many
bad destinations,
touched by the fruit of [that] kamma,
unindebted, I eat my food.
Have you done any serious investigation of the Buddha's teachings on kamma?
And I might add that, in general, that in each succeeding time period in human history, people are more intellectually sophisticated.
Said differently, wishing to know past lives' karma seems like lamentation about present karma, as though we need a perpetrator to justify the victim. Both ignorance, no perpetrator, no victim. Ignorance present in the past, ignorance present now. Why care why the poisoned arrow is in, better to yank it out while you have the chance.
With warmth,
Matt
The four properties of the universe are: flux/change, a heart/compelling, finely structured and not an amorphous blob of emptiness, and both manifest and non-manifest. That's from a dharma talk I transcribed. So the negative seeds can be non-manifest until the conditions are right.
Here are some excerpts of what is covered with regards to karma: The entire chapter on rebirth and karma can be read here:
http://www.palikanon.com/english/sangaha/chapter_5.htm
The people who get pretty much all the attention and everything they ever want eventually pay for it. Those people are always so lost and empty, you often find them all being identical to each other. The highest questioning of their existence is financial or relationship issues. When I ask them things like "why do you smoke weed and drink alcahol" most of them reply with "because everybody does that, why wouldnt I do it". It just seems like none of them have a single original thought in their heads. Its so plastic and empty.
I write in rebuttal of lines written three posts above:
I think it's irresponsible and groundless to write this sort of thing off as needless scholasticism or what-have-you. I say this because it is in no way an oversimplification, which most talk on karma tends to be. Oversimplification is a falsifier and an obfuscator and an enemy of reason and the truth. I know this too well from the sloganism a lot of people call religion or right thinking. Oversimplification has no depth and thus is shallow and begging to be shattered with fuller examination.
Karma a simple idea? I daresay not! Karma is a force, not a simple idea. It is a power-house of stored-up energy (work) that frames us within certain parameters from which we cannot easily extricate ourselves or one another.
No, this wonderfully esoteric stuff from the Pali Abhidhammattha-sangaha is no "complex, multilayered tower of beliefs," but rather a reasonable person's guide to keeping karma in its place, IMO. But I say this as one who loves philosophy and is rather suspicious of the soundbite language of the marketplace.
I will want to bookmark your post. Thanks.
How do you yank the arrow? By following the N8FP to its conclusion.
is just like saying, i have lung cancer but i dont want
to know that the reason is i have been smoking heavily
for the last 20 years.
not to mention that the need to know why is the instinct
that drives human civilisation.
Thanks for both of your comments. In fact I can appreciate both points of view although as a rather intellectually-inclined type of person, I tilt more towards Nirvana's perspective.
As a student of the Thai forest tradition, I see the benefit of their simplistic way of teaching and the emphasis on meditation over scholasticism. I am quite certain if I asked the forest monks whether I should study the Abhidhamma, most if not all would say don't bother.
However, at the same time I have also studied under vipassana Ajahns who were very fond of the Abhidhamma and would integrate lectures on the Abhidhamma into their meditation retreats. These Ajahns saw intellectual knowledge as going well hand-in-hand with meditation practice. Personally, I felt I benefited a lot from these retreats.
Now, if someone were to ask me if they should enroll in a meditation course or an Abhidhamma studies course, I would say if you don't have time for both then go for the meditation course. The forest monks are a perfect example that the key to gaining insight into the Dhamma is through meditation.
However, there are also plenty of highly skilled meditation monks who are Abhidhamma experts especially in Thailand, Sri Lanka and Burma so I can only conclude that intellectual knowledge of the more complex teachings is not necessarily a hindrance to meditation and true insight as some people claim. For those who are intellectually inclined I think exposure to the more technical and philosophical aspects of the teachings, which one will discover exists within a system that has an admirable inner consistency despite the very intricate details, can really help in developing conviction/faith in the Buddha and his teachings. This faith/conviction initially based on reason can act as a stimulus for the practice through which that faith/conviction eventually becomes more and more based on experience.
I'm not sure if you've read the suttas, but the main debate described is between eternalists and annihilationists - basically it's the same debate that we're having now.