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The Lama
Chaz
The Remarkable ChazAnywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran
The Lama is the ecstatic, wild, and gentle figure who short-circuits your systems of self-referencing. The Lama is the only person in your life who cannot be manipulated. The Lama is the invasion of unpredictability you allow into your life, to enable you to cut through the convolutions of interminable psychological and emotional processes. The Lama is the terrifyingly compassionate gamester who reshuffles the deck of your carefully arranged rationale. To enter into vajra commitment is to leap from the perfect precipice. To find yourself in the radiant space of this choiceless choice is the very heart of Tantra. To leap open-eyed into the shining emptiness of the Lama’s wisdom display and to experience the ecstatic impact of each dynamic gesture of the Lama’s method display is the essential luminosity and power of the path.
~Ngak’chang Rinpoche
~Ngak’chang Rinpoche
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Most of us have learned some initial dharma from a book or some other media. In a sense that is our first teacher.
We also have life experiences and perhaps other paths which we can learn or be distracted by. For example 'Jesus loves me', 'the goddess is everywhere' or 'Ganesh will protect my coconuts' are all wonderful but Buddhism has its equivalents . . . So it is important to be aware of the baggage we have, the baggage to discard, make use of and to temporarily swap for the dharma hand baggage . . .
If we are fortunate we will find and make use of protective, informative and encouraging company. This takes a variety of forms; from books, yep they are good company, to fellow practitioners, sangha, dharma teachers and in this mass communication age, online resources . . .
If we are able, focussed and convinced, we practice. Meditation is often our most obvious practice and in this sense the cushion becomes our next teacher . . .
In time we may recognise the need for specialised or intense advice and engage with those able to provide insight based on their insight and commitment. For example experienced monks, Zen Masters or Lamas . . .
Slowly but surely the capacity to encourage, advise and support others arises, this is perhaps the most seductive level of insight. Some have the good sense not to offer teaching . . .
Anyway that is how I eventually met a flesh and blood Pratyekabuddha . . .
How you getting on with your teachers?
As usual you have nothing of any value to offer, just inane blather :banghead:
My own Guru and lineage teachers do the same thing (but without the drama, controversey and humanity that surrounded the Vidyadhara) with teaching that, in effect, disrupt that habitual pattern.
Oftentimes we think we should choose a guru based on our own values, perceptions and inclinations, even those "rooted" in the dharma, when what we truly need is someone like Tilopa, who had to smack his student Naropa on the head with a sandal in order for him to see what Tilopa had been pointing out for years - somone who will pull the rug out from beneath us and short-circuit or habitual samasaric tendencies.
But seriously .....
The quote's reference to it is certainly not a drug reference. I think it follows Mahamudra thought as in "bliss-emptiness" as illustrated in certain renderings inspired by the so-called "state of Vajradhara". Attachment to those kinds of feelings are certainly to be dealt with, but cultivation of wisdom can reveal a great deal about our feelings.
there is a space between stimulus and response; in that space we are free to make our own choices about how to respond. your actions are the ground on which you stand. use that space to be mindful, and seek out a response worthy of right speech/action. and if you are allergic to shellfish, don't eat it.
MODS: could you please remove this thread?
See, that's what I like about you @Chaz. You can take it as well as you can dish it out.
Why not read the first post in the thread again. An excellent quote. Then be amazed at the heedless students it 'inspires'. Words are easy. Learning from them takes the capacity to ingest and digest . . . or did I as usual forget something of the nature of dharma nutrition? Seasoning perhaps?
If this “path” is helpful to anyone, who am I to disagree?
But in general I think that idolizing the teacher is not good for the mental wellbeing of both teacher and student.
Some Buddhist and other paths do use this hierarchical method. It is inherently prone to potential abuse, over dependence but also great love and devotion independent of the inner qualities of an idolized teacher. The love and devotion comes from the student side. A teacher untransformed may also pass on a system of development independent of their nature. Just like a book is a container of wisdom without necessarily becoming holy, fire fodder or blasphemous. Most teachers are transformed to a sufficient degree to be exemplars of their training.
A great teacher makes one independent rather than dependent as soon as possible. :wave:
Providing people remember that politeness opens more doors than senseless insults.
That includes everyone.
I have already suspended one member this week.
Let's not make it a triple strike, ok?
It's a traditional way of looking at the role of the Lama/Guru, which is to wake you up. You don't wake someone up by standing by waiting for them to wake up on their own, if that's what is needed, there is no need for a Guru. To wake someone up you have to move them from the comfort zone that has them asleep in the first place. You have to make them uncomfortable, off-balance.
Now, this sort of relationship isn't for everyone. Having someone in your life with that role can, for some, be intolerable. You see it all the time - so many people, especially those you find online, feel they can go it alone, which is fine, but you also can see a certain resentment to the idea of a Guru invading their neatly ordered world and "resuffling the deck".
And even the pedestal is something to to be torn down. Even though it's a perfectly natural way to relate to someone, the Guru isn't someone to put on a pedestal and if he/she is on one then that is an obstacle to awakening - it's spiritual materialism.
It's like education. If you studied quantum mechanics long enough you'd have a PhD level of knowledge. Or you could enlist with someone with a PhD in Quantum mechanic and let them teach you - you'll still have a PhD level of knowledge, but in the end you'll also have the degree that proves it. It's all a question of what you want and what you aspire to.
Namely they visualize that the lama is a perfect unification of both loving and compassion, as well as is in the nature of emptiness, and is fully comprehending that. Imagining the lama this way, one identifies with the lama and too tries to raise these qualities in themselves so that their mind is in the same nature as the lama.
For instance in a Vajrayana practice one will visualize a Yidam, a meditational deity, and that deity is in the nature of the Lama. Then one visualizes that the Lama is in the nature of Vajradhara, or in Shingon Mahaviorocana, the Buddha. And then they visualize that the Buddha is in the nature of "Hum" or emptiness, and that even then, the "Hum" is still a gross representation of emptiness.
In this way, through the yidam, the lama, the Buddha, and emptiness itself, they come to an understanding of emptiness. Furthermore they visualize themselves as the yidam, they visualize themselves as the lama, they visualize themselves as the Buddha and they visualize themselves in that nature of emptiness.
Furthermore this lama is also doing the same visualization. So everyone involved has an equinimity in emptiness and they are all nurturing and generating their own Buddha mind comprehending emptiness, understanding, love, and compassion.
[...]
Zen and Vajrayana are both trying to get at the same thing with different means. [...]Furthermore they both end up both achieving the same end goal because they are actively identifying and clearly comprehending emptiness itself."
Basically, by holding the Lama in mind, you keep the goal or the ideal in mind. The Lama becomes a vehicle through which you become enlightened. Ever have a role model? It is kinda like that.
Milarepa went out in search of his guru, Marpa. When Mila found him, Marpa refused to give Mila any teaching and put him to work instead. Marpa put Mila through all sorts of trials, including commanding Mila to build a tower only to have him tear it down and build another and another. During that time Mila didn't learn much.
He did learn a bit about building towers.
Milarepa would finally receive Marpa's instruction and would go on to become his Guru's Heart Son. Mila would teach Gampopa who would teach Dusum Khyenpa, the first Karmapa.
He could have packed his bags and left at any time. In fact, he tried to do just that (the teacher he fled to, sent him back to Marpa).
Good thing.
However, sometimes we decide to call it quits on a teacher because we think we're not learning anything, or that the teacher is mistreating us, or any number of "perfectly good reasons". Sometimes that's adviseable and sometimes it could be a great mistake.
Generally, I think it's wise to discuss the matter, openly and frankly. A couple years ago, I was in a situation where I wanted to part company with my Guru. Because I had a formal relationship with him, I felt it only proper to contact him, explain my situation and to seek his blessing on the matter. He responded by asking me to consult with our resident Lama and after that consultation, we'd decide together. I followed those instructions and went to see Lama-la. Best thing I could have done. I stayed with my Guru. I could have simply left, but I'm damned glad I didn't even though it seemed like a perfectly legitimate idea at the time.
I must be kind to [insert patience tryer].
:buck:
sturdily independent Buddhiists I have met.
There's whole real world out there folks.
I'd have to make one slight change, and I'd totally agree. It's that the ideal Lama is the (insert glowing attributes here).
The Lama (or Guru - here the terms are interchangeable), not just somebody you latch on to. The Guru is the perfect teacher - the person who short-circuits your self-referencing. This person may not correspond with your mundane prejudices regarding what is right or wrong, but if this person can successfully point out the nature of mind, does it really matter how?