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wisdom

genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
If I had to guess, I guess I'd guess that wisdom is not what you know, it's who you are.

What's your guess?
riverflowInvincible_summer

Comments

  • Not how much you know but how much youve realized and how much you understand.
    Invincible_summer
  • zenmystezenmyste Veteran
    edited October 2013
    genkaku said:

    If I had to guess, I guess I'd guess that wisdom is not what you know, it's who you are.

    What's your guess?

    But you are who you are because of the things you know (or think you know)

    So for me, wisdom is both what you know and how you behave..

    EDIT:

    Although, i also believe there is a fine line between wisdom and being 'wise'..

    "To have Wisdom - is what we know....
    To be wise - is what we do.."
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    Not how much you know but how much youve realized and how much you understand.

    Exactly.

    I have known some brilliant fools.

  • knowing is half the battle the other half comes from the action of carrying out said wisdom.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    But you are who you are because of the things you know (or think you know)
    @zenmyste -- Oooooops! This sounds like a recipe for suffering to me.
  • zenmystezenmyste Veteran
    edited October 2013
    genkaku said:

    But you are who you are because of the things you know (or think you know)
    @zenmyste -- Oooooops! This sounds like a recipe for suffering to me.

    How so??

    Prince siddhartha became a 'buddha' because of the knowledge that he finally understood. Hence, "we are who we are based on the things we 'know' and understand.. (For example, based on our childhood, upbringing, religions, our study, our buddhist practice etc etc)

    We are who we are because of what we know. Simple as that!

    Someone who is deluded is only deluded because he thinks deluded thoughts.

    Someone who is enlightened is only enlightened because he thinks enlightened thoughts..

    No recipe!
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited October 2013
    @Genkaku
    Real wisdom is not you.
    It is
    the absence of you.
    lobster
  • how said:

    @Genkaku
    Real wisdom is not you.
    It is
    the absence of you.

    This statement is full of wisdom. And that wisdom came from YOU!
    Therefore although i agree with your words, i also have to disagree with it aswell! LOL
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    @zenmyste

    Chaos is the real constant.
    Who is the dream denying this.
    Awakening is finding wisdom
    was simply everywhere I'm not.

  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran
    Currently, to me...wisdom means unknowing. Unknowing the
    unskillful stuff.
    howriverflowlobsterInvincible_summer
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited October 2013
    We are who we are because of what we know. Simple as that!
    Someone who is deluded is only deluded because he thinks deluded thoughts.
    Someone who is enlightened is only enlightened because he thinks enlightened thoughts..
    No recipe!
    @zenmyste -- Whatever floats your boat, but an 'enlightenment' that is limited by thinking hardly sounds limitless to me.

    As a matter of curiosity, are 'we' deluded or enlightened when 'we' are not thinking? Are 'we' present or absent? Are 'we' alive or dead? And ... does it matter or not?
    Real wisdom is not you.
    It is
    the absence of you.
    @how -- I hope you will think that over. If absence or presence were more than tentative toys, I think Zen would long since have disappeared in the sands of time.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    No chance to add:
    The old men who came before us did not concoct the four propositions so that students would then have a place to rest their heads or be immune to the howling winds. They offered them as encouragements and reminders not to stop and nest.

    The four propositions were and remain:
    It exists.
    It does not exist.
    It both exists and does not exist.
    It neither exists nor does not exist.
    EvenThirdlobster
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited October 2013
    my thinking says: wisdom (or prajna or panna) is neither what we know, now what we are - rather, wisdom is the process of knowing happening, when its causal condition of mind being totally still for a sufficiently long duration (mind in dhyana or jhana and samadhi) arises.
  • zenffzenff Veteran
    edited October 2013
    Following the standard procedures of what is right, often will turn out to be wise. But a fool who’s simply afraid of crossing lines will be perfectly capable of doing it.
    When we are meme-copying machines, this type of wisdom is about copying the appropriate memes.

    The real wisdom shows when no one can tell you what is right, when there is no standard procedure available or when it fails. When there is no appropriate meme to copy, what do YOU say or do?

    In Buddhism – the way I understand it – it is crucial to reach the other shore and to leave the raft behind; which is an image for finding the real (your own) source of wisdom and leaving the standard procedures behind.

    My wife always smiles when she sees how I cook from a recipe. She never uses one and it always tastes a lot better.
    lobsterJeffrey
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    genkaku said:

    Real wisdom is not you.
    It is
    the absence of you.
    @how -- I hope you will think that over. If absence or presence were more than tentative toys, I think Zen would long since have disappeared in the sands of time.

    (IMO) I think wisdom, like compassion & love is the real nature of existence.
    Our sense of separation from existence simply manifests as it's obscuration.
    Reality (wisdom) is nothing more than abated ignorance or abated self promotion.

    Wisdom always is itself, unclouded by our petty dreams of identity just as it is
    when the dreamer awakens.
    One can be present in an eternal
    Zen sandbox, surrounded by all manner of toys but still dreaming.
    Absent of self though is the awakening from the dream.

    Gotta run now, Angelina Jolie is insisting on another massage.

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter
    Longchenpa

    Anything for a giggle . . . :)

    Being wise as opposed to appearing, thinking wise thoughts or being empty of the causes of wisdoms lack is not for everyone or at times anyone. The best form of wisdom may adopt a foolish, silent or ordinary garb. Nakedness is not wisdom. Wisdom knows what to wear out. On with the parade . . .
    :vimp:
  • GuiGui Veteran
    edited October 2013
    Wisdom is a word we put to just going straight. That concept brings suffering as do others.
  • zenff said:

    Following the standard procedures of what is right, often will turn out to be wise. But a fool who’s simply afraid of crossing lines will be perfectly capable of doing it.
    When we are meme-copying machines, this type of wisdom is about copying the appropriate memes.

    The real wisdom shows when no one can tell you what is right, when there is no standard procedure available or when it fails. When there is no appropriate meme to copy, what do YOU say or do?

    In Buddhism – the way I understand it – it is crucial to reach the other shore and to leave the raft behind; which is an image for finding the real (your own) source of wisdom and leaving the standard procedures behind.

    My wife always smiles when she sees how I cook from a recipe. She never uses one and it always tastes a lot better.

    Yes, you are talking about unconditional wisdom (ultimate bodhicitta) versus conditional wisdom. It is like when all of our expectations and training do not suffice we must rely on openness, clarity, and sensitivity. Ultimate bodhicitta.
    howlobster
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    genkaku said:

    If I had to guess, I guess I'd guess that wisdom is not what you know, it's who you are.

    What's your guess?

    Depends on what you are referring to when you say the word "you". What is "you" anyway?

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    What is "you" anyway?
    @seeker242 -- I realize it's a copout, but maybe we could agree, as a means of provisional conversation, that "you" is whoever it is that gets up in the morning to take a leak.
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    Not how much you know but how much youve realized and how much you understand.

    :clap:
    Bravo. The beginnings of wisdom.
    It starts nowhere else.

    We can not understand all of the levels of wisdom at once but we can be wise enough to know the extent of our ignorance and the potential and source of wisdom. Digestion. Discernment. This is the beginning, we start to listen out for wisdom . . .

    . . . meanwhile avoid wearing your waste bin as a head covering
    image

    On with the musical accompaniment . . .
    vinlyn
  • lobster said:

    Not how much you know but how much youve realized and how much you understand.

    On with the musical accompaniment . . .
    Hmm, they must have been thinking trashy thoughts....lol

    Invincible_summer
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
  • William Shakespeare - "The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."

    The bart is no fool.

    The fool who knows that he is a fool can, for that reason, be a wise man; but the fool who thinks that he is wise is, indeed, called a fool. Dhammapada.

    neither was the Buddha.




    genkaku said:

    If I had to guess, I guess I'd guess that wisdom is not what you know, it's who you are.

    What's your guess?

  • errr, I mean the Bard....
    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    What a day, eh Milhouse? The sun is out, birds are singing, bees are trying to have sex with them... as is my understanding.
    William Bart Shakespeare
    Invincible_summer
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    genkaku said:

    What is "you" anyway?
    @seeker242 -- I realize it's a copout, but maybe we could agree, as a means of provisional conversation, that "you" is whoever it is that gets up in the morning to take a leak.

    I would say no then because that person is deluded.

    :lol:
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited October 2013
    Anything I say would only be a guess.

    I don't want to look the fool and claim to know what wisdom is but I don't want the pat on the back for admitting I could be a fool.

    I imagine I'm somewhere in the middle of the two and could lean either way depending on the circumstances.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    genkaku said:

    What is "you" anyway?

    @seeker242 -- I realize it's a copout, but maybe we could agree, as a means of provisional conversation, that "you" is whoever it is that gets up in the morning to take a leak.

    I would say no then because that person is deluded.

    @seeker242 -- Deluded perhaps, but at least s/he doesn't piss on her foot so much. :)
    Jeffrey
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    Yes! I (he) stopped drinking a while ago. That previously was a common occurrence! :D
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