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Refuge vows
LoveWins
Explorer
I am really interested in taking refuge vows. I've been very interested n Buddhism for quite sometime and over the past 2 years, I have read many books on the topic, practiced meditation, and have attended classes at my local Shambahala Center and attended a meditation retreat. There is an Acharya coming to my town to give Refuge Vows in about 4 weeks. He was here last summer but I knew I wasn't ready at that time. Anyway, my boyfriend, who has already taken refuge vows years ago, (and already taken Bodhsittva vows already as well) is kind of making me feel like I'm second guessing myself about it.i think he wants me to realize that taking these vows are no joke and that by taking refuge vows, I'm declaring that I'm a Buddhist and that I'm now taking refuge in xyz. I think he feels that I should practice being a Buddhist more and practice living a Buddhist life FIRST before I take the vows. He doesn't think that taking the vows without already seriously practicing isn't suddenly gonna make me super Buddhist by just simply taking the vows. While I understand this concept, for some reason I just want him to be happy for me and let me have my own path. He feels that before he took his vows that no one really took the time to explain to him what refuge vows meant so he doesn't want me to go into this uninformed and blindsided as he was. In the process of him being "helpful", I feel judged and discouraged. No I don't meditate everyday, yes I have a glass of wine sometimes and no im not perfect. I still want to be a Buddhist though. What are your thoughts? Try living like a Buddhist first and then take the vows? Or take the vows and begin my path. I don't know what to do. Now I'm just pissed off to be honest and crying and now I don't want to take the vows. I don't know what to do. I appreciate how seriously my boyfriend takes this. But now I just don't feel like I should take the vows. Help.
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Comments
Your BF is being an asshole.
To take vows means to aspire to doing well.
It doesn't mean you're already perfect.
His criticism of you and his comments are condescending and frankly, wide of the mark.
I took Refuge vows, for myself, at home, in private, in a little "Do-it-yourself" ceremony.
They are as meaningful, solid, valid and acceptable as going through a complicated official rigmarole of a 'public service'.
Granted, there are traditions which place enormous emphasis on how important the Vows are.
But traditions vary, and not every tradition maintains such rigorous, inhibitive standards.
He's not wrong. But he's not right either....
Your Vows are for your benefit, and yours alone. They are of significance to you - you don't make them for others, you make them for yourself.
Tell him to get off his preachy high-horse and put a sock in it.
And if he wants to argue the point, I'd welcome the dialogue.
Tell him to tell me I'm wrong - and many here will join me in backing you up.
Anyway, your boyfriend cannot decide if you're ready or not. That's up to you. If you feel that you are ready, then I would suggest doing it. People who take such things too seriously really need to, as @fredrica put it, get of their high horse.
A question to ponder: To whom are you making the vow?
You are making it first of all to (1) yourself, to your life as you live it. More deeply, you also make the vow to (2) the Buddha in you. You also make the vow to (3) your own practice as you currently understand it, and you make the vow to (4) your fellow practitioners who need your support (just as you need theirs). And insofar as your life is intimately intertwined with all other beings, you make the vow to (5) all beings in all space and all time. But first and foremost, you begin with yourself, where you are at this moment. Without beginning by doing it for yourself, the vows benefit no one, including yourself.
When two people marry, they exchange vows to one another. Does this mean they are the perfectly happy married couple? No. But it does mean that they aspire to love one another in their own imperfect way.
The vow is like the pole star which gives direction, an orientation to return to again and again.
The vow is a gateway, a beginning. If you could only make the vow after you had things down pat, so to speak, why would anyone need to bother with vows?
But if you do not feel ready to take the vows, then don't do it. It doesn't sound to me that your boyfriend is being acting very skillful or compassionate to you. He should be more supportive of you rather than making a beautiful vow into something painful.
That type of personal commitment is for your life, no one else.
Boyfriends come and go.
To call all this advertising is not to denigrate it ... it's just advertising after all. Some advertising is taken seriously. Some not. Which is which is up to the individual. The advertising simply points the way. It is individuals who follow that way. And it is individuals, in the end, who answer the single question that makes much sense:
Advertising for what?
All of that is by way of saying, if you want to take vows, then take them. If they help you strengthen your way, take them. If you're afraid of failing to live up to them, don't be: Anyone who ever took vows fell short at one time or another ... fell short, got up, and continued to do his or her best ... and probably failed again ... got up again ... etc.
It's your choice, your vow, your life and your advertising.
But advertising for what?
Best wishes.
I have never publicly taken refuge vows, although I have frequently done it in my practice. I guess I like to think of Buddhism this way: What if one was alone on a desert island or alone in a jungle. One could not do those public things -- wear official robes, visit temples, read texts, burn incense, focus on statues, etc. Yet one could still be a Buddhist.
And yet, that's not to say that ritual and temple objects have no role in Buddhism. I see them as anchors to, perhaps, make one's focus more mindful.
If your teacher or peers opinions of you are important, then a public vow (great advertizing) can carry more weight than a private one.
You are not taking refuge in your boy fiend or boyfriend.
You are
taking refuge in the Buddha, Sangha and Dharma.
Except no well meaning obstacles, impediments or advice other than the needs of Your True Self.
:wave:
Buddhaṃ śaraṇaṃ gacchāmi.
Dharmaṃ śaraṇaṃ gacchāmi.
Sanghaṃ śaraṇaṃ gacchāmi.
I go to the Buddha for refuge.
I go to the Dharma for refuge.
I go to the Sangha for refuge.
I've recited them but I don't know if they had any "power" or effect because I hadn't resolved to take refuge; I assumed that one has to do it with resolve. However, someone told me once that even by expressing an interest in Buddhism, studying it and wanting to apply it to life, one automatically takes refuge without reciting the vows.
Btw, I do take the Five Precepts very seriously. I don't drink or do drugs (ever); I don't fool around on my partner (though I often have "bad thoughts"); I don't steal or try to cheat; and so on.
Keeping your word is part of right intention and right (joyous) effort.
Word of truth comes even before refuge, but it is seemless with refuge.
But we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves because we are bound to break it sometimes. But then we have to get back to it. An example in my life is how I meditated every day for 11 months and then broke it one day. The next day(s) it was hard to get back on the horse because I had already broken my word.
According to what I was told/taught, to take refuge simply meant to make a conscious, personal 'commitment' to learning and living the Dharma. It did not need to be a 'public' declaration or entail any fancy shmancy ceremony or rituals; however, if one was a member of a formal group or temple/sangha and they did have ceremonies and rituals for refuge- well, that's all well and good. But it wasn't really 'necessary' otherwise...
I've never heard, read or been told that there was any sort of "probationary period" before taking refuge, which is kind of what your BF is suggesting. Taking refuge can be the very first step along the path once you've decided to 'become' a Buddhist....
From the website: http://www.rigdzindharma.org/refuge.html
"Taking refuge is the first step on the Buddhist path, when a person wishes to become a Buddhist. It often occurs as a natural outgrowth of learning about Buddhism and reflecting on what the teachings really mean in light of our human condition. It represents turning toward a genuine spiritual path that can be of benefit not only to ourselves but to others as well."
I find it ironic that he has taken the vows AND the Boddhisattva vows, yet is going against them by his attitude and behaviour to you.
My friend, if you feel in your heart you are making the right decision to take these vows, then take them. No one - including us or your teacher, should dictate to you when the time is right.
In metta,
Raven
Isn't it possible that in coming here and posing her question in the first place, that she is inviting the rest of us to dictate our feelings on the matter?
How do we know that her boyfriends not right? Have you never met someone who perhaps should have waited a while before taking refuge?
Telling her to follow her heart is no different from telling her to ignore her boyfriend.
"I don't know honey, What would you like to do?"
Wouldn't you agree that making suggestions, exploring options, offering different avenues of thinking about something, and then advising someone to weigh all those options and decide what is right for them, is not exactly 'dictating' to someone what they should do?
I see a big difference between dictating and offering advice or explaining how things look from other perspectives (ours), and then telling a person to choose what's good for them without judgment or coercion.
Edited to add: Actually, from what @Lovewins says, it's her boyfriend who's doing the 'dictating'....
Well I re read your opening post and now wonder if this is just part of a normal relationship exchange where he is telling you of his own changes in understanding and you are vacillating about something you now are not sure of.
You not being sure is nothing to blame on anyone else as it can simply be just what it is. You not being sure is also not a sign of a lack of commitment.
I would take the truth of where you really are to be more representative of following the Buddha's teachings than pretending to be something that you currently are not. (Certain about taking them)
I'd say that although you may take the refuges later, you are already acting like you've taken them.
Please allow me to remove my reference to your boyfriends possible dickery.
Actually I disagree with that because I'm giving her my opinion as asked. If she chooses not to follow, I won't tell her she is wrong and I won't put a guilt trip on her. Actually I have - me. But you know something? It helped me focus more seriously on the Buddha's teachings and live more mindfully in the present moment. Yeah I should have waited, hindsight is always 20/20. But I think it's worked out pretty dandy since those closest to me have commented favourably on me since then. *shrugs*
In metta,
Raven
Pomp is a part of all religions. It has a function, and is inspiring to some (perhaps even most) people. But it is not the core of a religion. It's the window dressing.
Also see where I talked (posts up screen) about 'the word of truth' above which is important!!!! to right effort (joyous) and right intention.