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Being a Buddhist doesn't mean renouncing social engagement.
A friend of mine gave me a book for Christmas called No Beginning, No End today, and I think the first three paragraphs of the foreword by Thich Nhat Hanh beautifully sum up what I'm trying to say here:
It has been said that the twenty-first century is going to be a century of spirituality. If it is not a century of spirituality, there will be very difficult times ahead for all of us and for the generations to come. If we are not able to stop and look more deeply at the suffering in ourselves, how will we be able to address the suffering in the world around us? In order for us to transform our own suffering, we must do something radical.
The first radical thing we can do to transform the suffering in ourselves is to practice stopping (shamatha). We stop in order to return to ourselves, to become calm. When we are calm, we have a better chance to see our suffering more clearly. The second radical act is to look deeply inside ourselves and see our suffering, be with our suffering, in order to understand and transform it. This is also true for the suffering in the world. We as entire nations need to stop and look deeply at the suffering in the world in order to see it more clearly without prejudice and understand how to transform it.
The practice of mindfulness in these troubled times is more important than ever. If we as individuals do not take the time to practice mindfulness, not only will it be difficult to transform the suffering in our own lives, but it will be difficult to transform the suffering in the world. It is vital to ourselves, our children, and the Earth that we have a practice that helps us to be mindful, that lets us come back to ourselves and dwell in the present moment in order to transform suffering in ourselves and others around us.
In other words, the practice and social engagement can go hand-in-hand and are entirely compatible.
Cinorjer said: Don't forget the Buddhist monks involved in the ethnic purging of Muslims from Myanmar believe they're being socially engaged, and who can dispute that? They see this as defending their society against an evil. In their case, social engagement has been infected by hatred and bigotry
This is a strange comment. Are you a Buddhist? Buddhist texts don't promote the slaughter of any minority or majority of non Buddhists. On the other hand Muslims do and the Koran does-I've studied it. The sword verses are very clear. History is also very clear. When the Muslims took over India around 800AD they tortured and mutilated the Hindus but they slaughtered all Buddhists. This is common known policy of Islamic states. Pushing out or even killing people who are determined to wipe out you and your family and friends to the last person is not hatred and bigotry? Try survival.
You say you think conflict is necessary well sometimes it is. In defense of your whole people it is not called hatred and bigotry. It's called the struggle to stay alive. Most current Islamic States got that way by military take over and slaughter of everyone who didn't convert. History is plain. Maybe you should be asking more questions. If you disagree with this I will happily share chapter and verse and historical dates. This is not a moot point. I actually I don't see much virtue in the rest of your commentary either. You could try asking more questions. Reading. And spending less time with nasty minded comedians.
Of course I'm Buddhist. I am cautioning against the hidden dangers of social engagement, is all. Social engagement can be a collective force for good or twisted to create suffering in the name of some cause. What is not Buddhist about seeing the world as it is?
I am pointing out that our desires and fears and ignorance can cause even Buddhist monks to create more suffering instead of working to eliminate it, and it doesn't mean those are bad people, only people like you and me. Those monks in Myanmar think they are doing the right thing. Ask them why they are ignoring the Dharma and they will tell you that they are defending the Dharma. The Muslims and Christians who kill in the name of their God think they are doing the right thing, too, in spite of their own religion telling them killing in wrong. The nature of selfish desires and anger is that it blinds us to our true motivations. That's why Dukkha is so hard to eliminate.
So I caution that social engagement is necessary for our Sangha in today's world but don't let that become a battle between good and evil. If you see Muslims as the enemy or an evil you have to fight, you cannot act with a clear mind.
Hello, I see nothing wrong with engaging with the world unless we are unable to do so with a peaceful mind. If it causes us to have an unsettled or angry or prideful mind we need to find a solution to that before engaging further. We are of little use to ourselves and others if our mind is not peaceful.
Hi, it´s ok doing social efforts to gain more positive karma.But if you try to make this life the last one, it will not be possible to engage social activities.
sakko
1
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Hi, it´s ok doing social efforts to gain more positive karma.But if you try to make this life the last one, it will not be possible to engage social activities.
Hi, it´s ok doing social efforts to gain more positive karma.But if you try to make this life the last one, it will not be possible to engage social activities.
sakko
This sort of statement tends to bring Buddhism into disrepute and to conflict with the principles of the Noble Eightfold Path. Rarely have I had to deal with feelings of such deep anger and disgust at a statement. I acknowledge my anger which arose like a thunder cloud but passed like a summer storm under the warm winds of quiet meditation.
Hi, it´s ok doing social efforts to gain more positive karma.But if you try to make this life the last one, it will not be possible to engage social activities.
sakko
This sort of statement tends to bring Buddhism into disrepute and to conflict with the principles of the Noble Eightfold Path. Rarely have I had to deal with feelings of such deep anger and disgust at a statement. I acknowledge my anger which arose like a thunder cloud but passed like a summer storm under the warm winds of quiet meditation.
Why anger? While I don't agree with the statement, the traditional view is that personal enlightenment takes such supreme effort that there is no time or energy left for social activities. And really, for some traditions, the recognized way to gain quick advancement is to become a hermit, even to the extent of locking yourself into a room for many years of constant meditation with no human contact or moving to a mountain cave and eating pine needles. Isn't that putting the statement above into action?
@Cinojer: You ask and then you answer yourself. It is this approach, like Rousseau's #grande princesse"'s "Let them eat brioche" or the Auatralian "I'm alright Jack, pull up the ladder", which, as I said, is seen by many as selfish and, even, solipsistic about Buddhism. The tradition of withdrawal from 'the world' has its counterpart in Christianity too which does not make it any less self-absorbed. I am grateful that Buddhism can also inspire a Joanna Macy or a Thich Nhat Hanh, and Christianity an Elizabeth Fry or a William Wilberforce.
Obviously, if an individual decides that they will devote all their energies to their own - and just their own - enlightenment/salvation, that is their privilege. I note, however, that the Shakyamuni Buddha himself chose to act and teach, rejecting the eremitical path he had followed until his awakening, and that many hermits (e.g. Mother Julian of Norwich) made themselves available to guide and counsel those who came to them.
I was watching this 2 year old lecture on a Buddhist approach to the Occupy movement by Bhikkhu Bodhi and thought it fit this topic perfectly. The first part is basically an overview of the Occupy movement and inequality in the US, while the second part deals with social and political passages in the Pali Canon and how they can be applied today. I recommend at least watching the second part.
In the two suttas, Paharada sutta and Nakulapati Sutta, Buddha said this to the householders how a householder could attain release from the Samsara, in the sequential steps – Sotapanna, Sakadagami, Anagami and Arahatship. Buddha said, Nibbana is something we all must strive in sequential steps and is impossible for a householder to leap frog the process. The proper way for a house holder is – Dana , Sila, Bhavana.
Dana is generosity. That means giving something of oneself in thoughts, words and deeds.
Sila is keeping the precepts and practising sense restraint.
Bhavana which includes meditation and mental cultivation.
Without generosity (renouncing social engagement) the path is not complete. Engagement doesn't mean one has to be an activist. Even monastics can be socially engaged by spreading the Dhamma (dhammaduta) or giving meditation retreats.
I have been away for a while so this posting is a little delayed. In the Buddhism that I have been and continue to practice, social engagement, at every level, is the reality of living, thus the reality of our practice as Buddhists. In this saha world, when the sufferings of others become our sufferings, we have entered the path of the bodhisattva. It is not that we ignore our own life, problems and needs. In fact, we do not. We must address both our own challenges and work to better the society we live in through our involvement. It is very hard to save another from drowning if you do not first learn how to swim. Someone once said that the best students are teachers and the best teachers are students...
I am entering the conversation late as I am a new member. I would like to explore the idea with someone if anyone is willing. I would say that I am not socially engaged at all and have not been for decades. I do not consider that a character defect. I understand that I may be wrong in this assessment. As a result, I'd like to explore the idea with someone who believes that I am wrong.
It's not a character defect. It actually takes certain qualities in a person to be able to engage in social struggle without losing their mind, and someone is just different if they are unable to do so. It's all about personally assessing our talents and seeing where that leads.
I haven't read all the replies in this thread, but it seems like the dichotomy is being made between either hermits, isolated in caves, selfishly seeking nibbana, or going out in the streets and making Buddhism more political.
What about those who ordain as monks, but teach the Dhamma? Arguably, in their own way, they are participating in social engagement by teaching a path to peace (provided they're not using their position to promote certain political views).
^^^ Can a teacher be engaged ?? Of course. I think mine is.
Do you mean a monk and how many people he teaches/is around him ? I don't know...what if he's exposed to 10 people a day as opposed to someone who can be exposed to 10 times that...??? That's why the word social became important...and what that meant exactly....
I am new here. I have been studying and continuing to discover wonderful extrapolations of the dhrama by new generation of young Buddhists. In my arrow understanding about Vietnamese Mahayana Buddhism, During a dharma session, Buddha was asked how his teachings can be verified thousands of years after his passing, Buddha smiled and said that any teaching that addresses (1) Suffering, (2) Impermanent, and (3) Non-self that when combined they must lessen the suffering of all beings.
To better understand Socially Engaged Buddhism, you just need to look at what Thich Nhat Hanh and Silak Sivaraksa have done to promote it. The exiled Silak
is probably not too well known outside of Thailand. I've had his book, "A Socially Engaged Buddhism" (ISBN: 8176465143) for about 20 years. It looks like it is still available.
To me, the basis for socially engaged Buddhism is a willingness to practice it within the structure of the Buddhist teachings (The Eightfold Path). What is happening now in Burma and Sri Lanka is not, in my opinion, any manner of Buddhism, nor are the people involved in it Buddhists. You can call yourself whatever you want but that does not make it so. That goes for Buddhists, Christians or Islam. Killing innocent people in the name of your religion does not make you a follower of that religion not is it social engagement.
A teacher is focused on the good of training their students. Then their students who have more time than the teacher can be engaged in their causes that mean something to them.
For example a teacher with 200 students is mostly busy running retreats, answering e-mail, and many other things. Suppose they are too tired on their own end to also engage in social activism. But their 200 students have benefited from mind training and the training left them more compassionate and wise. Thus the activist students benefit from the Lama. It's kind of a 'trickle down'.
Yep Meister Eckhart, a German theologian, philosopher who lived in the 1200's spoke of this- not specifically of Buddhists but ,not a Buddhist myself it hits home for me.
“Spirituality is not to be learned by flight from the world, or by running away from things, or by turning solitary and going apart from the world. Rather, we must learn an inner solitude wherever or with whomsoever we may be. We must learn to penetrate things and find God there.” Meister Eckhart
Summary: A student asks for advice on how not to lose heart in the environment they perceive as lacking care and compassion.
A student writes:
"I am writing this email to seek some advice to adjust the way I think.
The problem that I am having at the moment and in the past is due to the sadness arising in my mind due to the actions of others.
I am a medical student and always willing to help others. My understating is that life is short, and during that period we should try to help each other in a meaningful manner.
The heartache starts when I observe and experience fellow medical colleagues’ selfish, arrogant behaviour. I help others without expecting anything. However, when I ask for simple advice or help from another colleague, most try to lie to me, fool me, ignore me and try to give incorrect advice.
As a medical student I believe one should develop compassion and empathy from your heart, which will aid the process of making one a caring, good doctor.
I know I cannot change the world or others’ behaviours but is there a way to adjust my mind and the way I think to not to get upset and concentrate on my medical studies without getting distracted, do well in my medical exams, and become a good caring doctor?"
Lama Shenpen:
Well I think you are answering your own question for yourself really, aren't you?
It is tragic and sad when people don’t act and speak compassionately.
We are all motivated by a whole mixture of motives but everyone has compassion and love in them because it is our true nature. However, in some people it has become almost completely covered over by doubt and fear.
It takes courage to open one’s heart, especially when surrounded by suffering. Sometimes it may even be that the people who sound the least caring are in fact the most sensitive and somehow are finding it hard to cope.
All of us who are striving to find our true nature and to really help others need to be open hearted to those who seem to have hardened their hearts.
We have to start with being kind to ourselves. It is hard for us to be courageous when others are teasing us and being unhelpful, putting their power trips on us and all the rest of it.
If we are to be courageous we need to find inner confidence that relies on our true nature and not on affirmation from others.
When we can be courageous like this and bear the pain and sadness of all the suffering we are going through – when we can be simple and relaxed around that and not take it all too seriously – maybe at that point we will start to spot opportunities to connect other people to their hearts. We could then help them be kinder to themselves and let us in more - let the feelings in more and the caring out more.
Social engagement is personally one of the greatest teachers......
Dalai Lama's words on this topic resonate most with me
“It is not enough to be compassionate. You must act. There are two aspects to action. One is to overcome the distortions and afflictions of your own mind, that is, in terms of calming and eventually dispelling anger. This is action out of compassion. The other is more social, more public. When something needs to be done in the world to rectify the wrongs, if one is really concerned with benefiting others, one needs to be engaged, involved.”
I'd say it's the best time to practice being a Buddhist, & also it may "rub off" on people around you..Better to be spreading love down here, than sat on a mountain top somewhere. :-)
Tashi Delek Jason,
Thank you for clarifying some things for new Buddhists and all others who have misconceptions of the Buddhist Way. I agree very much with what you wrote. Monastics though are very much a part of our society and for myself a very important part. Their focus is simply on other things that are much more related to their way of life. I believe that the concept is to change consciousness by not being evolved in worldly affairs which most times are motivated by ego and selfish ignorance. As lay it is imperative to also take the middle way as a lay practitioner. We can solve all issues in society through Dharma simply through the practice and cultivation of compassion and universal responsibility. It is also very important to remember that things are as they are and we can only purify our own minds and be a shining light for others sharing our Dharmic practice and experiences with anyone who is interested regardless of who the person is.
Long live the revolution of ALTRUISM!
Tondup Tashi
Comments
I am pointing out that our desires and fears and ignorance can cause even Buddhist monks to create more suffering instead of working to eliminate it, and it doesn't mean those are bad people, only people like you and me. Those monks in Myanmar think they are doing the right thing. Ask them why they are ignoring the Dharma and they will tell you that they are defending the Dharma. The Muslims and Christians who kill in the name of their God think they are doing the right thing, too, in spite of their own religion telling them killing in wrong. The nature of selfish desires and anger is that it blinds us to our true motivations. That's why Dukkha is so hard to eliminate.
So I caution that social engagement is necessary for our Sangha in today's world but don't let that become a battle between good and evil. If you see Muslims as the enemy or an evil you have to fight, you cannot act with a clear mind.
I see nothing wrong with engaging with the world unless we are unable to do so with a peaceful mind. If it causes us to have an unsettled or angry or prideful mind we need to find a solution to that before engaging further. We are of little use to ourselves and others if our mind is not peaceful.
Hina is a derogatory term.
- dishonourable , degrading , disdainful , dirty , low in position , disgraceful
Just type in hina in the search box: http://mykamus.com/free/2010/09/hina/ :aol:
sakko
Obviously, if an individual decides that they will devote all their energies to their own - and just their own - enlightenment/salvation, that is their privilege. I note, however, that the Shakyamuni Buddha himself chose to act and teach, rejecting the eremitical path he had followed until his awakening, and that many hermits (e.g. Mother Julian of Norwich) made themselves available to guide and counsel those who came to them.
He gave the what, why, AND the how!
Post-capitalist......are we there yet? hahaha
http://www.usamyanmar.net/Buddha/Article/Dana-Sila-Bhavana.pdf
Dana is generosity. That means giving something of oneself in thoughts, words and deeds.
Sila is keeping the precepts and practising sense restraint.
Bhavana which includes meditation and mental cultivation.
Without generosity (renouncing social engagement) the path is not complete. Engagement doesn't mean one has to be an activist. Even monastics can be socially engaged by spreading the Dhamma (dhammaduta) or giving meditation retreats.
In the Buddhism that I have been and continue to practice, social engagement, at every level, is the reality of living, thus the reality of our practice as Buddhists. In this saha world, when the sufferings of others become our sufferings, we have entered the path of the bodhisattva. It is not that we ignore our own life, problems and needs. In fact, we do not. We must address both our own challenges and work to better the society we live in through our involvement. It is very hard to save another from drowning if you do not first learn how to swim. Someone once said that the best students are teachers and the best teachers are students...
It's not a character defect. It actually takes certain qualities in a person to be able to engage in social struggle without losing their mind, and someone is just different if they are unable to do so. It's all about personally assessing our talents and seeing where that leads.
What about those who ordain as monks, but teach the Dhamma? Arguably, in their own way, they are participating in social engagement by teaching a path to peace (provided they're not using their position to promote certain political views).
I think mine is.
Do you mean a monk and how many people
he teaches/is around him ? I don't know...what
if he's exposed to 10 people a day as opposed to
someone who can be exposed to 10 times that...???
That's why the word social became important...and what
that meant exactly....
I am new here. I have been studying and continuing to discover wonderful extrapolations of the dhrama by new generation of young Buddhists. In my arrow understanding about Vietnamese Mahayana Buddhism, During a dharma session, Buddha was asked how his teachings can be verified thousands of years after his passing, Buddha smiled and said that any teaching that addresses (1) Suffering, (2) Impermanent, and (3) Non-self that when combined they must lessen the suffering of all beings.
To better understand Socially Engaged Buddhism, you just need to look at what Thich Nhat Hanh and Silak Sivaraksa have done to promote it. The exiled Silak
is probably not too well known outside of Thailand. I've had his book, "A Socially Engaged Buddhism" (ISBN: 8176465143) for about 20 years. It looks like it is still available.
To me, the basis for socially engaged Buddhism is a willingness to practice it within the structure of the Buddhist teachings (The Eightfold Path). What is happening now in Burma and Sri Lanka is not, in my opinion, any manner of Buddhism, nor are the people involved in it Buddhists. You can call yourself whatever you want but that does not make it so. That goes for Buddhists, Christians or Islam. Killing innocent people in the name of your religion does not make you a follower of that religion not is it social engagement.
A teacher is focused on the good of training their students. Then their students who have more time than the teacher can be engaged in their causes that mean something to them.
For example a teacher with 200 students is mostly busy running retreats, answering e-mail, and many other things. Suppose they are too tired on their own end to also engage in social activism. But their 200 students have benefited from mind training and the training left them more compassionate and wise. Thus the activist students benefit from the Lama. It's kind of a 'trickle down'.
The Buddha taught the 4NTs after enlightenment. That's pretty much it, right?
Dear Sirs,
May I have someone who can guide me to read the tibatent book of death & living
ivonnesong@gmail.com
Thanks/Ivonne
Try this website:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/
It is an exclusively Mahayana Website which also has a Tibetan Buddhist sub-forum. I'm sure you will get specific pointers and assistance there.
I'm still looking for a cave with widescreen TV...
The heavy hitters tend to hang out on http://www.vajracakra.com/
Whether heavy hitting is one's thing , is of course, a separate issue.
So what's a "heavy hitter"?
This is.
They need helmets for health and safety purposes...
The membership of vajracakra.com tend to be long term practitioners of Vajrayana/Dzogchen.
They are mostly highly informed, and pretty uncompromising in their critique of traditions who are not non-dual.
As I said on another thread they make no bones about the fact that they are a monoculture.
They are not ecumenicists.
Just found this site.
Love it!!
Yep Meister Eckhart, a German theologian, philosopher who lived in the 1200's spoke of this- not specifically of Buddhists but ,not a Buddhist myself it hits home for me.
“Spirituality is not to be learned by flight from the world, or by running away from things, or by turning solitary and going apart from the world. Rather, we must learn an inner solitude wherever or with whomsoever we may be. We must learn to penetrate things and find God there.” Meister Eckhart
From my guru Lama Shenpen's news letter
interesting
Great stuff. Identity action.
Social engagement is personally one of the greatest teachers......
Dalai Lama's words on this topic resonate most with me
“It is not enough to be compassionate. You must act. There are two aspects to action. One is to overcome the distortions and afflictions of your own mind, that is, in terms of calming and eventually dispelling anger. This is action out of compassion. The other is more social, more public. When something needs to be done in the world to rectify the wrongs, if one is really concerned with benefiting others, one needs to be engaged, involved.”
I'd say it's the best time to practice being a Buddhist, & also it may "rub off" on people around you..Better to be spreading love down here, than sat on a mountain top somewhere. :-)
I'm still looking for a cave with wide-screen TV...
and a l-o-n-g extension cord.....
Tashi Delek Jason,
Thank you for clarifying some things for new Buddhists and all others who have misconceptions of the Buddhist Way. I agree very much with what you wrote. Monastics though are very much a part of our society and for myself a very important part. Their focus is simply on other things that are much more related to their way of life. I believe that the concept is to change consciousness by not being evolved in worldly affairs which most times are motivated by ego and selfish ignorance. As lay it is imperative to also take the middle way as a lay practitioner. We can solve all issues in society through Dharma simply through the practice and cultivation of compassion and universal responsibility. It is also very important to remember that things are as they are and we can only purify our own minds and be a shining light for others sharing our Dharmic practice and experiences with anyone who is interested regardless of who the person is.
Long live the revolution of ALTRUISM!
Tondup Tashi
Tashi Delek @TondupTashi..are you connected to the singer ?