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My ways are not your ways
betaboy
Veteran
in Philosophy
My thoughts are not your thoughts.
I help people, but I help them in my own way. If it's a Christian in need of help, I try to help him by constantly referring to his theology - that whatever pain he is experiencing now will pale in comparison to the future joy he will experience with the Lord. If the person is a Buddhist, I tell him that conditioned existence is painful and death will put an end this conditioning once and for all - after which he will be happy forever.
So, different strokes for different folks. This is my method - I address individuals, I don't approach this as a Buddhist. That would only lead to problems.
I help people, but I help them in my own way. If it's a Christian in need of help, I try to help him by constantly referring to his theology - that whatever pain he is experiencing now will pale in comparison to the future joy he will experience with the Lord. If the person is a Buddhist, I tell him that conditioned existence is painful and death will put an end this conditioning once and for all - after which he will be happy forever.
So, different strokes for different folks. This is my method - I address individuals, I don't approach this as a Buddhist. That would only lead to problems.
3
Comments
So why wouldn't a suffering Buddhist think you are suggesting suicide as a path to sufferings cessation.
I sometimes apply that philosophy not just to the different religions, but also to the seemingly irreconcilable divide between the religious and the nonreligious. I could go on and on about it, but basically, I have come to hold the position that irrationality is often just as valuable to individuals and to society as rationality. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if there is no God. Trying to imagine the universe in a way you wish it could be is (or can be) just as noble as trying to find out how the universe actually operates. That's not a popular way of looking at it, by either the religious or the nonreligious, but it's the way I look at it.
This comes from a person who has gone from being raised as a baptized Catholic in a pretty devout family, to becoming a militant, anti-religious atheist (which is unfortunately the loudest voice coming from the secular community at the moment) out of youthful arrogance, to "mellowing out" and not criticizing the religious as much, to recognizing the viciousness and disrespect running rampant in the atheist/agnostic community, to actually defending the religious more often than defending the nonreligious, to finally finding unprecedented comfort in Buddhism.
I've been on every segment of the religious/nonreligious spectrum and my outlook reflects that. TRUE open mindedness, tolerance, and respect is the way to go and is the way our culture will progress. There is nothing evolved or advanced in ridiculing others because they don't seek out the same things in life that you do. Nothing at all.
Start with someone in dire need. Start on the small wheel, the Hinyana. Your intention is wonderful but your help is, how can I put this politely . . . premature . . .
Help yourself, then you will be able to help independent of 'Christian', 'Buddhist' or 'Samsara dwelling, demon crustacean' help . . .
hope that is helpful :wave:
Start with someone in dire need. Start on the small wheel, the Hinyana. Your intention is wonderful but your help is, how can I put this politely . . . premature . . .
Help yourself, then you will be able to help independent of 'Christian', 'Buddhist' or 'Samsara dwelling, demon crustacean' help . . .
hope that is helpful :wave:
I understand what you mean, but the problem is ... for some bizarre reason, people always come to me for help, including total strangers. They trust me, confide in me, want me to help. I can't say no to them, nor can I say, "Let me help myself, get rid of all my problems, and then I'll be better able to help you."
Logically, that is the right thing to do, but I just don't have the heart to do that. So let me help them all the while helping myself as well.
I believe in this approach simply because my gut tells me that we're all searching for a purpose. Behind every tree, under every rock, beyond every cloud, what we search for is a meaning to life, a strange significance to an otherwise ordinary life.
Are you some sort of counsellor, Betaboy?
If you really consider yourself a Buddhist, then set that ego aside and reconsider envisioning yourself as some sort of therapist, or self-help 'guru'.
Be wise enough to know what is 'friendly advice' given to family or friends (when they ask for it) about minimal issues and day-to-day problems, and what is truly "counseling" others. I can't stress the difference enough.
There is a reason psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists and even social services workers are required -by law- to have formal educational degrees, get licensed, and/or at the least be certified by the state to practice at lower levels of counseling.
The only exception to these laws are, in SOME states, (Like mine) it is legal to call yourself a "Life Coach Counselor" and practice as such. (This sounds much more like what you're talking about when you say "people are searching for meaning in their lives", etc. But that is not the same as psychological counseling)
However, as a LCC, when you see people as 'clients' you are required by law to display any and all formal educational degrees or certificates you have legitimately received for studies in the psychology field. (diplomas and the like).
If you do not have any degrees or certificates you must reveal that to every single person you advise or 'counsel' and I would suggest you get them to sign something to prove that they have been told exactly that.
You are not allowed to call yourself nor tell anyone you are a 'therapist' or a 'psychologist' or even a 'counselor' nor can you imply any of the same ....
All that said; well, because what I would like to further say, I can't say in any way as to not sound rude or antagonistic... so, I'll stop here.
re-read all your own posts in this thread. No one misunderstood anything. You clearly made it sound like you have -and continue to- 'advise' people.
You even mentioned things you have said to people; different ways you advised them. Don't try to backpedal now.
"I help people, but I help them in my own way."
" If it's a Christian in need of help, I try to help him by constantly referring to his theology - that whatever pain he is experiencing now will pale in comparison to the future joy he will experience with the Lord." (sounds like a suicide trigger)
"If the person is a Buddhist, I tell him that conditioned existence is painful and death will put an end this conditioning once and for all - after which he will be happy forever." (another suicide trigger?)
"Point is, I get the individual concerned to talk about what he believes is the meaning/purpose. It could be religious or secular, but either way that becomes the starting point."
Starting point for what, exactly? Your counseling sessions? Seriously. Stop.
Instead you listen, then encourage them to seek professional help if their problems seem too overwhelming for them to handle themselves. YOU do not need to play shrink. (that is pure EGO stroking there)
One of the counselling therapies I was trained in is Rogerian therapy used by the Samaritans. It involves listening until the client comes up with their own solution. However being a maverick Tantrist (can not remember if this is gangham style, gestalt or just mayhem based) I like to present them with a tin of sardines and say, 'you think you got problems - what about these fish'.
However that is not for everyone . . . Just be kind, patient and everything will shrink back to Nothing (so I am told).
:clap:
I think the latter can be dangerous, and that it would be better to use as expedient means the advice to seek professional advice or counseling... a pastor, minister, rabbi, psychologist, msw, etc.
Rogerian therapy.... :thumbsup:
However, take even that too far into the Warm & Fuzzy territory, without meaningful, but gentle direction, and you're left with a therapy more along the lines of "Coddling Mommy & Whining Child" - instead of helpful self-examination and discovery .
Strangely, I have.
@betaboy-
Please tell me where you live and what you do on a daily basis that people are "constantly" coming up to you in dire need of advice or solace (as you call it).
Seriously, do you live in America? Or somewhere else?
Do you spend time on the streets, sitting on benches, just looking to smile and 'chit chat' with strangers? Do you linger on bus stops, in parks or at soup kitchens?
I just find it really hard to believe that you have some sort of 'mystical magnetism' that draws (needy) people to you - without any conscious or subconscious signals from you.....
I'm not saying that can't ever happen. Because I know it can... but I also know that it's rare and yes, there is a way to handle that kindly and gently; and even 'turn it off' when it becomes necessary.
So I'm honestly curious as to how and why you're being sought after like you claim you are.
And some, I imagine, climb onto the cross in order to convince themselves they are doing something 'good.'
Self-importance, let alone crucifixions, are not what Buddhism is about.
ADHD might be a different story, but I think just about any kid in the world can get an ADD diagnosis...just tell the doctor you don't like doing homework and he will help you out. So it's actually refreshing to hear that you had parents who were upset that the teachers were pushing it on their kids...a lot of parents jump for it more eagerly than the kids.
There definitely are doctors who are not respectable in this realm. When I student taught, we suddenly realized that over 30% of our kids were diagnosed as ADD or ADHD, and guess what...every single one of them had the same doctor.
Some of the best advice I have been given has been from non professionals, people with genuine insight, empathy and experience.
Strange world we live in.
I feel Betaboy has issues but also has a right to help keep the gloom ridden off the suicide watch . . . hopefully himself included.
:clap:
Mood-disorder suffering is very common, proceed with caution with respect to afterlife thoughts. That said there are great gobs of people who use mindfulness to combat mood disorders & unhappiness, and that doesn't require changing your religion.
As for mindfulness, I wrack my brain & I can't think of a good reason for it to be contra-indicted, i.e. no reason why not to try it-- the worst that could go wrong is that nothing would happen. Or a backache.
Having been trained, first, by Carl Rogers and, later, qualifying in Gay Affirmative Counselling, Laban profiling, T.A., Gestalt, NLP and Enneagram, it was quickly borne in on me that, in order to be alongside clients, I needed to understand fully their language and personal 'map'. This led me to many different studies, including re-reading C. S. Lewis (one client thought he was hearing Aslan), reading Alice Bailey and, with great fruit, Zen and other Buddhist texts, along with the Gita and re-studying the Gospels. It did not mean that I 'used' these to manipulate clients but, quite simply, so that I could understnd what they were talking about. I believe that the 35 years during which I worked with a variety of different groups (addicts, police officers, LGBT, local government workers, counsellors and therapists in supervision among others) enriched me as well.
It is simple courtesy to our clients, if we are professionals, or even our chance encounters, to recognise and affirm the value of their personal 'map' and 'script', humbly and with a mind open to learning. Every one of them can be a teacher if we let them.
Find what you need. Make use of all resources. That is my plan. We need you.
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