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Is it really worth doing a bit of meditation?
DairyLama
Veteran Veteran
in Philosophy
When I was running a Buddhist group I'd encourage people to try and do a little bit of meditation each day, saying that even 5 or 10 minutes was worthwhile.
The problem is that from long experience of meditation I reckon that real progress requires at least an hour a day, and that doing less amounts to treading water. Or to put it another way, if somebody has a spare half hour then maybe they'd be better going for a nice walk than sitting on a cushion.
Your thoughts?
The problem is that from long experience of meditation I reckon that real progress requires at least an hour a day, and that doing less amounts to treading water. Or to put it another way, if somebody has a spare half hour then maybe they'd be better going for a nice walk than sitting on a cushion.
Your thoughts?
0
Comments
With the intention of having the ability to sit for longer periods.
Like running or swimming.
10 minutes is much longer than five for someone who is starting out at following the breath.
For a new mother or a man who has to work hard to support his family, any spare time might be better spent sleeping.
"Without going out of doors one may know the whole world; without looking out of the window, one may see the Way of Heaven. The further one travels, the less one may know. Thus it is that without moving you shall know; without looking you shall see; without doing you shall achieve." (Lao Tse)
Why would someone continue doing it if they weren't getting something out of it?
I imagine that most people who are interested in meditation, read some books or listen to their teacher to establish how it's going for themselves.
I've been using an iPad app to gradually increase my sits. I have a ways to go to get to a hour, but I'll get there for sure.
That should you keep out of mischief for twenty minutes or longer . . .
Every Little Helps
Tesco Dharma
:clap:
For those still struggling . . . maybe do some prostrations or chant to Mrs Buddha . . . if five minutes is too much of a good thing . . .
At a stage when time is of the essence I suppose it seems logical to maximise consistent focus.
For me, rather than duration per se as a touch stone, it returns to 'what are you doing?' sort of moment by moment.
But I think another problem with short sits is that it can take beginners 15 or 20 minutes to basically calm the mind, which I think of as the preparatory period. So if people never get beyond that length of time then they don't really get the point and they don't experience meditation proper.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.08.budd.html
Dhp VIII
PTS: Dhp 100-115
Sahassavagga: The Thousands
111. Better it is to live one day wise and meditative than to live a hundred years foolish and uncontrolled.
112. Better it is to live one day strenuous and resolute than to live a hundred years sluggish and dissipated.
113. Better it is to live one day seeing the rise and fall of things than to live a hundred years without ever seeing the rise and fall of things.
114. Better it is to live one day seeing the Deathless than to live a hundred years without ever seeing the Deathless.
115. Better it is to live one day seeing the Supreme Truth than to live a hundred years without ever seeing the Supreme Truth.
I do a little extrapolation from this.. from what I've experienced so far in my practice, better to live 1 minute wise and meditative then 100 years not
The Buddha taught that this practice was a gradual practice, just like how the ocean slopes downward away from the beach until there is a sudden drop off. The practice is gradual until the moment of awakening. It takes many lifetimes, or if you're not into that, many years, to develop the practice, every second of practice counts in my book, whether you perceive it to be a waste or not.
If you are trying to GET something, to REACH somewhere, to ACHIEVE some goal.. then time becomes a factor in your mind. If you are just trying to BE, then time is irrelevant. I'm not quite there yet myself, I cannot count the amount of times at the monastery during hour long meditations that I looked at the clocks in the hall.. time rules us... it's a tough task master to let go of.
depends on what you want to develop.. if you REALLY want to develop, become a monk! that's my plan. If we have a spouse and kids and a house and a job and all the trappings of mundane life, then of course it will naturally be harder to practice and it cannot be your main goal as you have many mundane responsibilities, but I still feel any practice you can get in is worth it.
Someone meditating for ten minutes may not progress as quickly as someone sitting for an hour, but is that the point?
The problem arises when anyone tries to define or limit what that "something" is.
If you have a meditation instructor or have access to one, this is a perfect and quite common question. It's one of those things that a little one-on-one can help with.
I would say this is true, provided you are, in fact, meditating.
As for progress, toward what? What are we trying to achieve exactly? I have seen myself and other people get into what seems like settled and "elevated" mind sets only to be totally thrown off by something out "in the world" causing quite a bit of distress. In fact, my own very teacher always cautions the sangha at the end of long retreats to be careful and gently ease back into everyday life.
Meditative techniques are potent means and I think that 20-40 minutes a day is just about right for many people. You can get the calming and grounding effect but without going into the real deep stuff. One must have a real calling to do intensive meditation and certainly a real teacher.
I think in some part, there is a role each for a teacher and a student to take in that relationship and those in a teaching position should aim to beat themselves up at least as infrequently as those not in a teaching position... perhaps even less.
Perhaps the subtlety of one's own practice provides a suitable guage of the type of response / encouragement that may be helpful at that particular stage - a very intimate relationship.
For some that may be a 'do as much as you can' reassurance - for others, it may be 'do more' reassurance.
I've found some truth to this: students present their own solutions and suitable masters reflect.
In that sense, even a single mindful breath is enough, if it encourages us to let go of what does not belong to us. Ajahn Chah said the path was one of letting go more and more until we realize that nothing belongs to us. And Thanissaro Bhikkhu has a lovely metaphor of meditation being like fresh water we take with us on a journey into the ocean. We'll need to replenish, returning again and again to land to find a well. Or we can take a miniature distillery with us and turn saltwater (the wide world) into our sustenance. The latter is more sustainable.
yes, you can get better at something through continued practice, but I'm not keen on the idea of becoming a "better" meditator. And I'm not sure what there is to "accomplish".
In the Heart Sutra we'll read:
"There's no attainment and no non-attainment."
We can quibble over the semantics of attainment or accomplishment, but I think that foolish.
I think, and my teachers agree, get in as much practice as possible, even if it's only a couple minutes.
OK ... so you fake it... dying to get enlightened even if what "enlightened" means is a bit vague. Yummy, of course, but vague too when push comes to shove. Whatever it is, it's got to be better than the unsatisfactory stuff that led me to try meditation in the first place.
Looked at in one way, meditation is probably just the least dumb of all the dumb, fraudulent things I could be doing: At least you're not hurting anyone else, probably. So you blew 20 minutes ... so you're a 'spiritual materialist' ... so what? If you don't like this form of spiritual materialism, you can always go and find a better one, right?
Some stick with it, despite all the virtuous nit-picking and hallelujah choruses. Sit with the phoney because s/he's the only phoney in town. Some quit and take up knitting. Fine. But as with any other endeavor, it's out of the phoney-baloney that some skill and some honest return make themselves known. Will you be holy as a kumquat? I wouldn't bet good money on it. But bit by bit the skill speaks its mind.
What it's saying, I have yet to figure out.
So…
After reflecting on the fact that I have done nothing with it for 20 years I am having a meditation cushion made out of it. I'll post a picture of it when it's made, early new year.
Listening to people's experiences they had clearly been struggling for ages in those few minutes.
. . . as @genkaku has wisely said, we are 'fake meditators' in the beginning . . .
Another not so local lama on an intro course I attended during a Christmas week retreat said he took an hour to 'settle' and would regularly sit for six hours at a stretch . . . . :rolleyes:
Meditation is not a joke. We are (speaking from experience). Meditation is called practice because that is what is required. :om:
the least dumb of all the dumb things I could be doing... frickin CLASSIC! lol
It keeps me on a healthy and positive path which is of vital importance to me, especially considering I have a pretty addictive personality, meditation helps me break free from this mindset and prevent bad decisions. But most of all, it gives me clarity, even after short periods of time
Try opening your mind. It is really more effective than putting your bum on a cushion.
So a minute can be an effective time interval.
Of course some of you know better than to waste your minutes on others realisations . . . :buck:
BuddhaAesopThis same principle holds true for any exercise.
What I mean is that I don't think that setting aside 20, 30, 60 minutes, sitting with eyes closed and blocking out all else is for everyone, or is the only definition of meditation. As I said, I can't do that. I've had better insights by what may be just introspection and contemplation in another way: I do it by walking or even sitting and looking out a window.
Is that what you were taught?
I was taught to meditate with eyes open and to not block out anything.