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Swastika Tattoo.

I was thinking about getting a Swastika tattoo on my chest (and possibly my hands and feet) like the Buddha. I have a few problems, though. 1. Would people mistake it for the Nazi symbol? 2. Could I get hired if I had Swastikas on my hands where people could see it? 3. Would getting tattoos demonstrate attachment to my own body? Thank you.
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Comments

  • People are guaranteed to misinterpret why you have a swastika tattooed on your body. In fact some people will hate you before they even meet you.
    Unless you live in a Buddhist country of course.
    There are lots of choices that won't be so upsetting for people.
    vinlynInc88personInvincible_summer
  • robot said:

    People are guaranteed to misinterpret why you have a swastika tattooed on your body. In fact some people will hate you before they even meet you.
    Unless you live in a Buddhist country of course.
    There are lots of choices that won't be so upsetting for people.

    What if I just get the swastika on my chest? Or perhaps a dharma wheel?
  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran
    if you're gonna ink yourself, do the wheel.
    robotInvincible_summer
  • robotrobot Veteran
    edited February 2014
    image

    What do you think?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Ethan, after reading several of your posts, I just wonder if you are getting wrapped in Buddhist symbols?
  • sovasova delocalized fractyllic harmonizing Veteran
    1. yes, unless it's backwards like japanese temple signs
    2. nope. and in japan especially they are taboo (tattoos = yakuza)
    3. up to you (no clever japan related info available)
    Invincible_summer
  • vinlyn said:

    Ethan, after reading several of your posts, I just wonder if you are getting wrapped in Buddhist symbols?

    Well, I think they're cool.
  • I think most people will be too repelled by it to figure out that it's backwards to the nazi one, or what that means.
    Jainarayan
  • sova said:

    1. yes, unless it's backwards like japanese temple signs
    2. nope. and in japan especially they are taboo (tattoos = yakuza)
    3. up to you (no clever japan related info available)

    It would run clock wise like the one used on Hinduism and Buddhism. Not the Nazi symbol.
  • Jayantha said:

    having tattoos anywhere that is visible and not easily covered by clothing will effect companies and businesses who will hire you, whether its a swastika or a rainbow unicorn.

    Yes, and having a swastika will add another layer to your job finding problems. Why would you do that to yourself?
    Ethan_McCuneToshWonderingSeeker
  • Jayantha said:

    having tattoos anywhere that is visible and not easily covered by clothing will effect companies and businesses who will hire you, whether its a swastika or a rainbow unicorn.

    robot said:

    Jayantha said:

    having tattoos anywhere that is visible and not easily covered by clothing will effect companies and businesses who will hire you, whether its a swastika or a rainbow unicorn.

    Yes, and having a swastika will add another layer to your job finding problems. Why would you do that to yourself?
    Okay. I will just get a dharma wheel on my chest.
    robot
  • matthewmartinmatthewmartin Amateur Bodhisattva Suburbs of Mt Meru Veteran
    1,2 - bad idea. Almost no one is aware that the swastika has two meaning depending on if it's clockwise or counter clockwise and even I can't remember of the top of my head which is which. This isn't just a problem just for Buddhists, it's a problem for Asatuar (viking religion revivalists) who have all sorts of religious symbols that were used by Nazis as part of their propaganda. Symbols are as they are received not as you send them. It's like the monty python skit where the tourist is reading a prank travel phrase book and things like "where is the post office" came out as some obscene insult-- people reacted to the obscene insult, they didn't stop and think through if there was a deeper meaning going on.

    3. Tattoos in a Buddhist view would be a type of austerity, since as I understand it, it hurts to get them. And they are magic charms in SE Asia (Angelina Joli has on her back a Buddhist themed magic charm tattoo).

    Attachments-- think a good way to consider attachment is, are you at peace with the idea of both having and not having a tattoo-- if yes-- then that's the best position to be in. The next part is being at peace with the idea that the fun of getting a tattoo will arise and dissipate and being at peace with that is a good position to be in. Even a monk with just the 8 requisites (the max # items a monk is allowed to own) could get attached to those things, so where to draw the line? Better to have a healthy relationship with the goods and services you consume than to vow to consume nothing, or some arbitrary small amount.

    Also, I'm reading a bunch of vajrayana stuff, and they constant talk about "body, speech and mind," Shingon especially sees these as the key to Enlightenment. So if putting speech (symbols) on your body is what is called for, why not transform the experience into the power & energy to move you to enlightenment.
    Ethan_McCuneEvenThird
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    Most people are far too ignorant to know the swastika predates Nazism by thousands of years so I wouldn't if I were you.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    edited February 2014
    To answer another question of yours, yes, you can be fired, or denied employment by visible tattoos of any sort (if you live in the US anyhow) much less ones that the majority of the population will assume to be representation of hatred. For the most part, how you look is not a protected class from discrimination (as in your hair style, tattoos, piercings, and so on) though you might somehow be able to argue it is a religious rite. I wouldn't recommend it though.

    I have a swastika tattoo on my ankle, very small, that I did myself with a needle and a bottle of ink I stole from art class when I was 14. I still mean to cover it up, and I find myself having to cover it whenever I am not wearing socks. It's quite embarrassing. Despite my knowing what it means, no one else does and it rightly horrifies them and causes them to misjudge me (again, rightly).

    My sister has the wheel on her elbow. It looks amazing (though I might not recommend the location...YOUCH).
  • karasti said:

    To answer another question of yours, yes, you can be fired, or denied employment by visible tattoos of any sort (if you live in the US anyhow) much less ones that the majority of the population will assume to be representation of hatred. For the most part, how you look is not a protected class from discrimination (as in your hair style, tattoos, piercings, and so on) though you might somehow be able to argue it is a religious rite. I wouldn't recommend it though.

    I have a swastika tattoo on my ankle, very small, that I did myself with a needle and a bottle of ink I stole from art class when I was 14. I still mean to cover it up, and I find myself having to cover it whenever I am not wearing socks. It's quite embarrassing. Despite my knowing what it means, no one else does and it rightly horrifies them and causes them to misjudge me (again, rightly).

    My sister has the wheel on her elbow. It looks amazing (though I might not recommend the location...YOUCH).

    Would you recommend the wheel over my heart?
  • Of course they'll mistake it for the Nazi symbol. You can use a backwards one, to avoid that. However, you could also research Buddhist symbols, and pick a different one altogether. The symbol for the Eightfold Path is quite nice...
  • I was thinking about getting a Swastika tattoo on my chest (and possibly my hands and feet) like the Buddha. I have a few problems, though. 1. Would people mistake it for the Nazi symbol? 2. Could I get hired if I had Swastikas on my hands where people could see it? 3. Would getting tattoos demonstrate attachment to my own body? Thank you.

    People probably would mistake you for an alien.
  • robot said:

    image

    What do you think?

    I think the bloke with the tattoo is telling us he's stupid without opening his mouth.
    Ethan_McCuneJainarayan
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    Ethan_McCune
  • 1. Would people mistake it for the Nazi symbol?

    Yes. Most definitely.


    2. Could I get hired if I had Swastikas on my hands where people could see it?

    Well, technically speaking not hiring someone because of tattoos has a name. It's discrimination. However, right or wrong, it readily happens. There are reasons why reputable tattoo parlors won' tattoo on people's hand or faces. (Unless they're heavily tattooed).


    3. Would getting tattoos demonstrate attachment to my own body?

    No, not necessarily.
    To me, tattoos are artistic outward expressions of an internal commitment. They are a form of art and a form of expression.

    A swastika tattoo? Don't think it's a good idea any way you look at it.
    Ethan_McCune
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I have this picture on my phone as a screen saver. I'll tell you how ignorant some people can be (ignorant with a small 'i'....)

    "Oh" sez one girl, "I didn't know the Buddha was a Nazi".... And she was serious, too.

    So I - speaking as one who has 8 tattoos - would advise against it.
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    It's such a shame that Westerners are tainted by the nazi using such an auspicious symbol but in reverse. However, that was probably why they lost the war!

    http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm
    Ethan_McCune
  • anataman said:

    It's such a shame that Westerners are tainted by the nazi using such an auspicious symbol but in reverse. However, that was probably why they lost the war!

    http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm

    I'd like to think so! That bastard killing all those innocent people.
    Kundo
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    edited February 2014
    I agree with some said here that the swastika is not really a "buddhist" symbol.. it predates the Buddha and is found in many cultures.

    The wheel with 8 spokes is the oldest symbol in Buddhism... in fact before the Greek influence when there were no statues of the Buddha(oh what a great time that would of been, damn greeks :P), the wheel inside a foot was the symbol for the buddha like so:

    image


    How about this for a tat? :)

    image

    or this

    image
  • robot said:

    I think most people will be too repelled by it to figure out that it's backwards to the nazi one, or what that means.

    Moreover, I believe the "true" swastika can face either way. So damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    Brb, checking...

    Yes, it can face either way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Geometry Note the comment about the Nazi "through and through" design. I for one would not wear or display a swastika no matter how auspicious, because I sport the "Mr. Clean" look... clean-shaven face and shaved head. I'm sure I'd get the shit kicked out of me. Or I'd attract every neo-Nazi as a friend like flies to dog shit. :eek:

  • Tosh said:

    robot said:

    image

    What do you think?

    I think the bloke with the tattoo is telling us he's stupid without opening his mouth.
    True, but I kind of like that bad boy thug look. :D
  • I have recently taken to wearing a beret. It the classic looking one , in the French style. I am a man.
    Comments :
    My daughter: that is a girls hat dad.
    My father in law: viva le resistance ( he is ww2 survivor)
    My friend: you look like Che Guevara .... You commie.
    Random person: are you,in the military.
    My wife: I'm going to buy you another hat.

    Many things have meaning to someone else which we can not anticipate. I knew I was being provocative by wearing the beret. I also knew I could leave it at home.

    Perhaps try a henna tattoo first and see the reactions.

    Ethan_McCunepersonWonderingSeeker
  • jaejae Veteran
    @Ethan_McCune..hi, if you are uncertain about it now how will you feel in ten years?

    My son is 14 at 12 he asked me if he could get a tat, I said you can do what you like when you are an adult.....however if you had asked me if you could have a tat when you were 6 what was your favorite thing?

    He answered 'Thomas the tank engine' I said 'how would you feel about that tattoo now?' ..his reaction was obvious. Time changes everything, but I think each to their own, just putting in my two pence worth :)
    Ethan_McCune
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Seph said:

    ...
    Well, technically speaking not hiring someone because of tattoos has a name. It's discrimination. ...

    Seph, I don't really agree with that.

    When I was hiring teachers, administrators, cafeteria workers, custodians, counselors, my only tools were a resume/introductory letter, reference calls, the interview, and my intuition.

    The introductory letter was usually a waste of paper and ink. Totally meaningless.

    The resume was of limited usefulness. You never knew who actually created it. It often told too little. And few resumes could be accepted at face value; a resume with no fudging was a rarity.

    Reference calls were notoriously unpredictable. Was the candidate and the referrer close friends or professional in their relationship? Was the referrer honest, or too worried about legal ramifications of being honest? Was the referrer honest or one of those people who only says nice things about other people? Was the referrer being straight forward or speaking in code?

    The interview can be just as unreliable as any of the other tools. Most candidates know -- or think they know -- how to give the right answer to most questions, rather than giving the honest answer. I used to enjoy flummoxing candidates by having them sit down, after which I would say, "Okay, you've got 30 minutes to persuade me why you are the best candidate for this position. I will intervene with questions based on what you tell me. Go ahead."

    And my last tool was my tuition. What did the way they dressed tell me about them? Their haircut? The way they sat in the chair? Etc. And yes, tattoos. How do I mix all these things -- from the introductory letter to the persona together to figure out who this person is and how well they will do the job...in less than an hour?

    If they have religious tattoos, does that increase the chances that I am going to have a problem with them proselytizing to students? Or what is the message that their tattoos send out.

    When I decided to apply for the principalship, they assinged an acting principal to our school, and he liked me and thought I was right for the job. 2 weeks before the panel interview (which would be made up of 2 teachers at our school, 2 parents at our school, and 4 educators I might or might know from other local schools), the acting principal called me in and tutored me on how to successfully obtain the job. "When you walk in that door, everything they see and hear is going to tell them who you really are. From the top of your head to the toe of your shoes. First, the night before the interview, get an expensive haircut and a professional shoe shine. Tomorrow go out and buy a $300-$500 suit; I'll make an appointment for you with a salesperson I know, and we'll have him select the right tie and shirt for the suit you select. Rehearse, in advance, your answers to the most common first and last questions (which most often are, "Tell us a little about yourself" and "Is there anything else that you would like to share with us today?"); and if you get that last question emphasize anything that hasn't come up in the interview that you think should have, and briefly emphasize the most important points of the interview, based on their questions. And make a list of questions that might come up throughout the interview, and practice potential answers that are about 3 minutes in length. Be honest in your presentation, but remember that you will be playing a role -- the man who will represent your school to students, to parents, to other educators, and possibly to local, state, and federal politicians. This won't really be an interview. This will be an audition."

    So I took all of his advice, and I already knew who my local competition was (and some of them would be tough)...and knew there would also be outside competition. And I already knew that one of our teachers on the panel would vote against me, and one of the parents from our PTA was questionable. And when I walked in that interview room and faced the 8-member panel, I played the part of who was going to represent our school to the world.

    And the next day back at school, the teacher I knew would vote against me came in and said, "When you walked in to that room with that suit, along with the way you presented yourself, I thought Vince is stepping up to the plate. You got my vote!"

    Everything of choice about you, tells something about you in an interview.



    lobster
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    I stayed at a Buddhist monastery where the abbot tried to re-introduce the Buddhist version of the swastika to the west. The monks there were encouraged to wear clockwise turning swastikas.
    Most visitors were shocked to run into Nazi Buddhist monks.
    If that was the reaction from visiting Buddhists, imagine how the world will respond.

    You might as well accept that it represents the Boogey man of this century to most people..
    Ethan_McCunelobster
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    To cling to the swastika in today's world seems...well, like clinging.

    Move on.
    Ethan_McCune
  • It is a very hard symbol to reclaim. I tried. I had an image of Ganesha. At the base were two swastikas. I left them there. Reminding myself of the genuine meaning. The Jain meaning. The Sun symbol.
    The head of darkzen seems to be a weird Arayan supremacist if this is your way.
    Not for me, too many lies, bigotry and hatred.
    http://www.darkzen.org/

    I have a better feeling about the swastika after my efforts but even so, it has not been fully reclaimed . . .
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    anataman said:

    It's such a shame that Westerners are tainted by the nazi using such an auspicious symbol but in reverse. However, that was probably why they lost the war!

    http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm

    I'd like to think so! That bastard killing all those innocent people.
    No he had such a persuasive personality and pitched his views just right to his target audience, that he might possibly have been regarded as the second coming had the Germans been victorious under his reign. We would probably be standing in an arena now, and the religious fanatics would looking on and applauding as the lions were let out. But first we would have to stand, heads bowed down as the Goebbels propaganda sutra would be read out to us, letting us know how we were as bad as the Jews as we saw them as our brothers and sisters, and for this we would faced certain death for our disbelief.

    But fortunately, we won - yeah! So who are we alienating and putting in the ring for sport as kitten fodder?
    lobster
  • DharmaMcBumDharmaMcBum Spacebus Wheelman York, UK Veteran
    anataman said:

    anataman said:

    It's such a shame that Westerners are tainted by the nazi using such an auspicious symbol but in reverse. However, that was probably why they lost the war!

    http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm

    I'd like to think so! That bastard killing all those innocent people.
    No he had such a persuasive personality and pitched his views just right to his target audience, that he might possibly have been regarded as the second coming had the Germans been victorious under his reign. We would probably be standing in an arena now, and the religious fanatics would looking on and applauding as the lions were let out. But first we would have to stand, heads bowed down as the Goebbels propaganda sutra would be read out to us, letting us know how we were as bad as the Jews as we saw them as our brothers and sisters, and for this we would faced certain death for our disbelief.

    But fortunately, we won - yeah! So who are we alienating and putting in the ring for sport as kitten fodder?
    The balls of string! Especially those unbelieving ones!!!
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran

    This isn't just a problem just for Buddhists, it's a problem for Asatuar (viking religion revivalists) who have all sorts of religious symbols that were used by Nazis as part of their propaganda.

    The swastika is not used in Asatru. The Valknut (three triangles intertwined) is used for Odin but Mjollinir (Thor's Hammer) is used to represent Asatruar. There are a bunch of neo nazis around who call themselved Odinists and they may use a swastika, but never Asatruar.

    Valknut
    http://royals.sca-caid.org/inc/59/valknut.gif

    Namaste,
    Raven
    lobster
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    anataman said:

    It's such a shame that Westerners are tainted by the nazi using such an auspicious symbol but in reverse. However, that was probably why they lost the war!

    http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm

    Cause killing 6 million people had nothing to do with it..........
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    anataman said:

    It's such a shame that Westerners are tainted by the nazi using such an auspicious symbol but in reverse. However, that was probably why they lost the war!

    http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm

    Cause killing 6 million people had nothing to do with it..........
    Perhaps you have not understood my (mis)take on commenting on tattoos, I am being very polite, especially since @Federica revealed she has 8 of them :o
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    anataman said:

    anataman said:

    It's such a shame that Westerners are tainted by the nazi using such an auspicious symbol but in reverse. However, that was probably why they lost the war!

    http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm

    Cause killing 6 million people had nothing to do with it..........
    Perhaps you have not understood my (mis)take on commenting on tattoos, I am being very polite, especially since @Federica revealed she has 8 of them :o
    Perhaps you did not interpret my sarcasm
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    Perhaps I did but you were unaware of it! LOL
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    Oh I'm quite aware of your point of view........
    anataman
  • vinlyn said:

    Seph said:

    ...
    Well, technically speaking not hiring someone because of tattoos has a name. It's discrimination. ...

    Seph, I don't really agree with that.

    When I was hiring teachers, administrators, cafeteria workers, custodians, counselors, my only tools were a resume/introductory letter, reference calls, the interview, and my intuition.

    The introductory letter was usually a waste of paper and ink. Totally meaningless.

    The resume was of limited usefulness. You never knew who actually created it. It often told too little. And few resumes could be accepted at face value; a resume with no fudging was a rarity.

    Reference calls were notoriously unpredictable. Was the candidate and the referrer close friends or professional in their relationship? Was the referrer honest, or too worried about legal ramifications of being honest? Was the referrer honest or one of those people who only says nice things about other people? Was the referrer being straight forward or speaking in code?

    The interview can be just as unreliable as any of the other tools. Most candidates know -- or think they know -- how to give the right answer to most questions, rather than giving the honest answer. I used to enjoy flummoxing candidates by having them sit down, after which I would say, "Okay, you've got 30 minutes to persuade me why you are the best candidate for this position. I will intervene with questions based on what you tell me. Go ahead."

    And my last tool was my tuition. What did the way they dressed tell me about them? Their haircut? The way they sat in the chair? Etc. And yes, tattoos. How do I mix all these things -- from the introductory letter to the persona together to figure out who this person is and how well they will do the job...in less than an hour?

    If they have religious tattoos, does that increase the chances that I am going to have a problem with them proselytizing to students? Or what is the message that their tattoos send out.

    When I decided to apply for the principalship, they assinged an acting principal to our school, and he liked me and thought I was right for the job. 2 weeks before the panel interview (which would be made up of 2 teachers at our school, 2 parents at our school, and 4 educators I might or might know from other local schools), the acting principal called me in and tutored me on how to successfully obtain the job. "When you walk in that door, everything they see and hear is going to tell them who you really are. From the top of your head to the toe of your shoes. First, the night before the interview, get an expensive haircut and a professional shoe shine. Tomorrow go out and buy a $300-$500 suit; I'll make an appointment for you with a salesperson I know, and we'll have him select the right tie and shirt for the suit you select. Rehearse, in advance, your answers to the most common first and last questions (which most often are, "Tell us a little about yourself" and "Is there anything else that you would like to share with us today?"); and if you get that last question emphasize anything that hasn't come up in the interview that you think should have, and briefly emphasize the most important points of the interview, based on their questions. And make a list of questions that might come up throughout the interview, and practice potential answers that are about 3 minutes in length. Be honest in your presentation, but remember that you will be playing a role -- the man who will represent your school to students, to parents, to other educators, and possibly to local, state, and federal politicians. This won't really be an interview. This will be an audition."

    So I took all of his advice, and I already knew who my local competition was (and some of them would be tough)...and knew there would also be outside competition. And I already knew that one of our teachers on the panel would vote against me, and one of the parents from our PTA was questionable. And when I walked in that interview room and faced the 8-member panel, I played the part of who was going to represent our school to the world.

    And the next day back at school, the teacher I knew would vote against me came in and said, "When you walked in to that room with that suit, along with the way you presented yourself, I thought Vince is stepping up to the plate. You got my vote!"

    Everything of choice about you, tells something about you in an interview.



    I think it's important to make a distinction. There's whether discrimination is right or wrong, and then there's the fact that it exists and is alive and well in our world.

    From what I can piece together for your post, not only does is sound like you practice a form of discrimination, but you also have found a way to justify it as well.
    I'm not disagreeing with you. It exists. People do it. But I am calling it for what it is. Judging somebody because of their appearance is discrimination. Not too far away from profiling.

    I'm not sure about the laws where you come from, but I know in Canada, if you could prove you weren't hired because of a visible tattoo, it's illegal. (Granted, it'd be hard to prove. But I guess that's the out, isn't it).

    I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    @dhammachick I admit I am completely unaware of yours...

    Mettha
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Seph said:



    I think it's important to make a distinction. There's whether discrimination is right or wrong, and then there's the fact that it exists and is alive and well in our world.

    From what I can piece together for your post, not only does is sound like you practice a form of discrimination, but you also have found a way to justify it as well.
    I'm not disagreeing with you. It exists. People do it. But I am calling it for what it is. Judging somebody because of their appearance is discrimination. Not too far away from profiling.

    I'm not sure about the laws where you come from, but I know in Canada, if you could prove you weren't hired because of a visible tattoo, it's illegal. (Granted, it'd be hard to prove. But I guess that's the out, isn't it).

    I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

    Actually, if you go back to my previous post, I told you that I thought some tattoos were beautiful and I admire them. Others I think are ugly and repulsive.

    So, if you were hiring a teacher to work with children, your top choice would be a person with gang tattoos and/or swastika tattoos?


    Kundo
  • So, if you were hiring a teacher to work with children, your top choice would be a person with gang tattoos and/or swastika tattoos?
    One day it might be.

    Education is about going beyond our preconceptions, sensibilities and negative associations. One day 'my little pony' will be seen as the evil suppressor of young girls reality it really is.

    What is that Mr Cushion? Can you play with Barbie? Ask your teacher, that faceless bum.

    . . . and now back to the claimants . . .
    EvenThirdEthan_McCuneSeph
  • Here, this showed up on my newsfeed today. Could be bullshit, but it's the thought that counts.

    http://www.viralnova.com/biker-gets-judged/
This discussion has been closed.