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Craving is hard to overcome
betaboy
Veteran
I don't wish to go into details, but certain things happened in the last week or so ... made me realize craving is so hard to overcome, even for me. Some people say mindfulness is the way, others say it is will.
What do you say? How do you overcome craving?
Or do you simply accept it as part of life and that it'd persist despite your best efforts against it?
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You damn right it's hard to overcome! One of my ways is to limit then stop exposure to what it is I'm craving. Then I can usually figure out what's behind the craving. Fear...things like that.
I will continue my best efforts.....That's why I take/took refuge.
I believe my cravings can be addressed.
How do you overcome craving?
Depends what it is. Mostly I don't bother. You mean conflicted craving? For example overindulgent food, alcohol, sensuality, reciting poetry to trees . . .
Well if you have a problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy
either that or ghostbusters.
I have a craving to chant . . . must resist . . . nope gonna succumb
HOME MONEY ON ME ON MONEY PENNY HOME (useless Siri does not understand pidgin Tibetan)
OM MANI PEME HUM
OM MANI PEME HUM
OM MANI PEME HUM
Craving is the 2nd Noble Truth. The Buddha was perfectly, abundantly aware that craving is what leads us to "suffering".
And now you see it too.
That actually, is a very positive step, because before, you only 'knew and understood' the 2nd Noble truth.
Now? Now you've actually 'Realised' it for yourself.
Without knowing precisely what it is you 'crave' it's difficult for us to help point you in the "Right" direction; but examining precisely why you crave, and where it leads you, is part of the remedy....
Craving keeps me honest.
They say that indeed craving is harder to overcome than anger. Anger is likened to a hot coal or fire, let it be and it will burn itself out. Craving is likened to an oil stained rag, the stain gets down deep in the fibers but it can be diminished or gotten rid of.
Sometimes it may be necessary to remove oneself entirely from the object of attachment such as retreatants do. What has worked for me is to take one day vows regularly then slowly increase the number and duration of days until you reach like one day a week, it may take several years to reach that point, for me at least certain cravings have then started to fade out.
So don't overcome it. Turn your attention on it. Investigate the craving. The more you try to reject a craving the stronger it becomes, so don't reject it. Be with it. Accept it and befriend it. You don't need to act on it, and who knows you might even get to like it.
anger you just need to realize you are angry and you cut off it's head right there (is a possibility)
craving is many headed like a hydra. Cut off one object of craving and another pops up.
Delusion is the hardest. Anger is the starting point.
These are the third noble truth and not the fourth. It is cutting the suffering off right immediately without the path to support you. The fourth gives a productive method, but working with samsara directly for a transformation can sometimes be considered the third noble truth.
Craving stops happening when the conditions giving rise to it no longer happen. It's those nasty little conditions that bug and baffle me.
I've had long term relief from SOME cravings (who knows about next week, tho) that appear to have been ushered into my existence via 'willpower', gritting teeth, putting a big rock on top of myself, etc. But I'm still alive and still a craving being. How long the relief is might be a crapshoot unless the conditions that give rise to craving no longer have THEIR conditions giving rise to THEM.
This is one big thing that put the Buddha's 'prescription' as central in this life. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I've 'seen' just how hopeless "it" is, backward and forward. For a couple years, I drank a lot of vodka thanks to having glimpsed whatever that is
The 'prescription' Buddha offered appears to address the terminal disease of this human life; craving, aversion and impermanence.
It depends what it is, but her is a speech from Sheng Yen
"Practice giving to overcome the craving for material gains"
Both. Along with the other 6 parts of the 8 Fold path.
:om:
Certainly is. Always a work in progress, that's why none of us are enlightened yet, lol. For me, what works depends very much what is being craved or clung to. Some things were easier to let go of, once I realized what I was doing. Some things were much harder. Obviously many things I either haven't let go of, or haven't even realized are cravings/items of clinging yet.
I have never found will to be the way, personally. It never worked with diet, exercise, school work, meditation, or anything else. Mindfulness has helped me, paying attention to why I'm talking myself into or out of things has been the biggest difference maker.
I am looking forward to answers from our dharma junkies, alcoholics and incessant breathers. From my own experience of having a body, I know the pull of physical being. I feel the Middle Way is is to be human and humane towards our weaknesses.
It means to be disciplined as much as possible AND to implement the positive factors and support structures that counter our reasonable rather than obsessive nature.
So for example the Christian mystics would mortifying/torture the flesh. Buddhist monks remove many of the trappings of the senses. Tantrikas fight fire with spiritual fire.
I find a balancing of emotional craving occurs with movement based meditations such as yoga and Chi Kung.
I also like to 'pray' to Bodhisattvas. It is a commitment or attempted commitment to a higher mode of being.
Be kind to yourself . . . and others. In fact others more so if possible. People who harm themselves always seem to effect others . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_kittens
OM MANI PEME HUM
Suppose a dog, overcome with weakness & hunger, were to come across a slaughterhouse, and there a dexterous butcher or butcher's apprentice were to fling him a chain of bones — thoroughly scraped, without any flesh, smeared with blood. _**What do you think: Would the dog, gnawing on that chain of bones — thoroughly scraped, without any flesh, smeared with blood — appease its weakness & hunger?"
**_
"No, lord. And why is that? Because the chain of bones is thoroughly scraped, without any flesh, & smeared with blood. The dog would get nothing but its share of weariness & vexation."
"In the same way, householder, a disciple of the noble ones considers this point: 'The Blessed One has compared sensuality to a chain of bones, of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks.' Seeing this with right discernment, as it actually is, then avoiding the equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity, he develops the equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness,[1] where sustenance/clinging for the baits of the world ceases without trace.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.054x.than.html
Craving keeps me dishonest.
@pegembra. What is the alternative? The dog doesn't want the bone, but then what? What does the person do even though they know all their addictions don't pan out. Even meditation with a craving mind is unsettling.
When I notice I have a craving, its actually very helpful to me.
A couple weeks ago, I had a couple of bags of my favorite cookie - Famous Amos Chocolate-Chip and Pecan.
Now, back in the day you could get some really nice big bags at Sam's Club - now you can only get these little tiny things at Safeway.
Well, I ate them both, in their entirety, in one evening. Looking at my empty bags, I realized that I craved those cookies far too much. So I am making the attempt to see how long I can go without them.
If I can go for a long period of time without them, then I just craved them. However, if I cannot and must have them, they've become a need, once that I must break seeing as how cookies shouldn't become a necessity.
@betaboy so how are you going to deal with it?
Ultimately its up to you. Does this craving cause you compromise (ethics, money, time, etc.) more than you should to satisfy it? Is your craving out of proportion with most other cravings, like the need for air or food?
I think it is a matter of mindfulness and will to overcome craving. Its not merely enough to say "I will not eat cookies" - you've got to remember (often) that you not only said that, but you have to have the will to resist the urge to indulge even a little bit.
I think a common saying among AA members is something along the lines of "Its easier to refuse the first glass (of whatever alcohol) then the second."
So it goes with resisting cravings.
Good Luck!
Craving is the last boss of the game. Might not get it on first try.
Famous Amos Chocolate-Chip and Pecan.
They sound like health food to me. Pecans are a nutritious nut, chocolate is now recognized as part of a balanced diet and a female essential nutrient.
http://authoritynutrition.com/7-health-benefits-dark-chocolate/
I have been wrestling the bunny for sweets/candy. The wabbit lost. Such behaviour has consequences, karma if you like.
My policy is always to not try and avoid the bad behaviour but increase the good. So for example. I am simmering some apples and pears, with currents and cinnamon, allspice and cloves. It will be sweet and delicious . . . yum . . . time to stir . . .
The alternative is to settle for finer and finer states of mind until nibbana is reached.
"There was the case where Sariputta — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful qualities — entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Whatever qualities there are in the first jhana — directed thought, evaluation, rapture, pleasure, singleness of mind, contact, feeling, perception, intention, consciousness,[2] desire, decision, persistence, mindfulness, equanimity, & attention — he ferreted them out one after another. Known to him they arose, known to him they remained, known to him they subsided. He discerned, 'So this is how these qualities, not having been, come into play. Having been, they vanish.' He remained unattracted & unrepelled with regard to those qualities, independent, detached, released, dissociated, with an awareness rid of barriers. He discerned that 'There is a further escape,' and pursuing it there really was for him.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.111.than.html
or
Seeing the 4NT at its deepest level.
The Blessed One said, "Monks, the ending of the fermentations is for one who knows & sees, I tell you, not for one who does not know & does not see. For one who knows what & sees what? Appropriate attention & inappropriate attention. When a monk attends inappropriately, unarisen fermentations arise, and arisen fermentations increase. When a monk attends appropriately, unarisen fermentations do not arise, and arisen fermentations are abandoned.
"He attends appropriately, This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress. As he attends appropriately in this way, three fetters are abandoned in him: identity-view, doubt, and grasping at precepts & practices. These are called the fermentations to be abandoned by seeing.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.002.than.html
As suggested by the monk in the video, craving can be overcome by giving. It is easy to understand when the craving is about possessions or money. Not so easy to understand when it comes to addictions but it does come from the same place. It comes from a place of "not enough". A place of greed. For example, if the craving is for alcohol or drugs, a person may be craving the escape from guilt/shame or feeling of being relaxed around others, or the desire for fun or acceptance by other "partyers". If the craving is for gambling, never enough money. If the craving is sex, never enough acceptance or feeling equal with others or never enough feeling of power in some cases. If the craving is for fame, never enough fame to elevate a person.
But how does one give, if the craving is for fame? Or how do you give, related to these other addictions? How does one foster a feeling of having more than enough of these cravings?
This can also apply to other cravings like procrastination. Perhaps this comes from a place of never enough rest or entertainment (whatever a person distracts themselves with). Or power shopping, never enough clothes, even though brand new clothes sit in the closet with tags on them. Or never enough junk, that a hoarder would crave. Even if your home is plugged with possessions, you can never get enough.
An interesting take on Buddhist thought and craving:
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/bs-s04.htm
Ignorance would be believing there is never enough.
Technically grasping is the last boss of the Buddhist game, if I know the rules right.
They're both difficult, and can be the last boss if you're talking about the game. If you're talking about freedom from suffering as how it relates to the Four Noble Truths, then I would disagree.
Craving makes me more compassionate - eventually.
"O foolish and afflicted mind, you want, you crave for everything"
(Shantideva)
That it is hard means that it can be overcome. Just like climbing a peak. It's nice when you reach the top. But then of course, one does not have to be at the peak of a mountain to be happy. The journey up is fun enough. It is a matter of how you choose to view it. You'd surprised to see the different fauna and flora along the way. Sometimes, you notice that the flora changes as you go up. That's wonderful, don't you think?