Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Self control
Padmini42
Explorer
There is quite a bit of emphasis on freeing oneself from desire and self control, its common knowledge that Buddhist monks take on a restricted diet and celibacy.
How can the common man become this devoted? What steps must one take to fully rid himself/herself of the filthy worldly desires, that lead us all down unto the cycle of suffering?
How does one get started and stay on this path consistently with no error or slip?
0
Comments
It's not about starting with perfect control and never slipping up... it's about increasing your self-control gradually and catching yourself when you do slip (that's part of learning).
I would say it's more difficult for the common man to be celibate and have a restricted diet than a monk in monastery.
As per the comment above, if you aim to follow this path with no error or slip you're setting yourself up for failure and the subsequent guilt.
Baby steps.......
How do I begin then? I really need to get out of the stickiness called samsara, and I feel that I must rise up to the challenges that come with following this path.
Can we start with elevating oneself to a more pure life style?
I am not asking to become a lama over night, I am just asking for advice to stop the stinking cycles I find myself entrapped in. ):
Practice.
What you are asking is how do I leave my past karma and head for enlightenment without any effort, conflict or suffering?
You first have to be prepared for effort, conflict and suffering. In other words you have to be prepared for intense practice.
Most of us are not that dedicated. We too have to practice.
It so much depends on just you. What you have to work on, what you don't. If at all feasibly possible, find a teacher, or a group/center to work with. Their ability to help you get started on your path is just what they are for.
@Padmini42 Do you have the basics down? Have you read or been taught about the Four Noble Truths, Impermanence, Not-Self, Karma and the like? The source and kinds of suffering?
The primary thing is to understand how all phenomena, including everything you are, is just fleeting and interdependent (mutually co-arising), and that suffering is caused from mistaking these constant arisings and passings (births and deaths) as real "things"... and seeking permanency and ownership. That includes thinking that you're a separate being.
My advice would be to think about how transient everything is, and make sure to establish a meditation practice (breath meditation is pretty easy and you can find instructions for it online, as well as all sorts of other information).
Layperson life is about continuing to "do" what needs done, but "letting go" at the same time. There are a lot of distractions, but so are there a lot of mental distractions coming-and-going all the time. It's really all the same thing and it's fundamentally mind-made.
You can try starting small. Take one thing, like diet or whatever, you don't have to tackle everything at once. For some people quitting cold turkey or making big changes works best for others acclimating gradually works. Like changing a few meals a week and building gradually to only having one cheat meal a week or only during certain social occasions.
Having a steady practice will help a lot in dealing with the emotions that will pull at you, not all at once but gradually. Keep at it and over the months and years you will see a change.
yes
breathing in the moment helps, I can almost do this on any occasion, yet I am still interrupted by samsara of the world and would like to pull out.
Although you are right, I need to learn to control these emotions that tug at me. I don't really have good flow with this ):
@Padmini42 It also couldn't hurt if you looked for a teacher. We don't all have access to one, so you'll have to search to see if there are Buddhist centres of any type in your area.
Well he isn't a Buddhist, but I do know someone in the area who has acted as a spiritual adviser for years. Although I am planning on relocating next year so will have to find a new one.
Having a Buddhist teacher will help on the Buddhist path. You knew that I guess . . .
Time. Effort. Patience. :thumbsup:
At first, just live. When stress arises it builds a desire to stop it from arising again. Use that desire. Build conviction. Having conviction is key to staying on the path.
Why would we free ourselves from self-control? I think the reason why many of us suffer is because we try to control where we cannot. Learning to accept that we often lack control will set us onto the path to freedom. Trying to control led
As for "filthy worldly desires," I think this too dualistic. As Buddhists, we ought to accept the world and our desires without judgment. Buddhism is the middle path between many things and the world, I think, is neither clean nor filthy. It is what it is.
@karmadakpa I don't think he meant that. I think he meant [emphasis on] "freeing oneself from desire" and [emphasis on] "self control" as separate points.
We haven't had any misfirings in the back-and-forth since the original post, at any rate!
This might not be helpful for you, but I've found Lojong slogans to be most helpful (whether you are Tibetan Buddhist or not). They are simple advises for every day things. there are 59 of them, and generally you work on them in order (some build on previous slogans) and overtime, when you run into trouble in daily life, you are able to recall them. I'd highly recommend them as a way to get started in the basics and help you in every day life. I think escaping Samsara is more about how we live our every day lives, how we interact with others, than exactly what time we eat or how many meals.
I am still interrupted by samsara of the world and would like to pull out.
Big goals, big words: big frustration. It is more about acceptance than control. Learn to be accepting of the here and now and patiently build from here.
Samsara is striving for control and a mirage in your head. Nirvana is letting go and accepting life with the nice and the ugly. You choose every moment where you stand. If anything, struggling blocks the view to Nirvana.
The learning process never actually finishes. You advance two squares, only to find yourself back to square one when affliction strikes.
And emotions are okay. Listen attentively for the lessons they bring instead of thinking you have to hush them down.
Buddhism is not about escape. It's about finding your sea-legs in this ocean of joy and affliction.
One thing I personally would advise is that you stop labelling everything in such negative, condemnatory, distasteful terms.
You use some pretty strong adjectives: "filthy worldly desires", "stinking cycles"....
Things are as they are. if you see them this way, that's an inhibition you place upon yourself.
Thereby making the task MORE distasteful and challenging.
While I understand your 'natural' desire to transcend Suffering', to nominate the Suffering with such strong terms, only serves to alienate you from life and integrating with others in a cohesive and embracing way.
They are as they are.
View them more kindly, and life may be kinder to you....
This could be the Middle Way I have heard so much about . . .
By all means make realistic efforts but the enlightened are kind to the diversity of human beings. Boddhisattva Jesus, the well known divine relative, used to hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors. You might not be able to bear the company of tax collectors but at least be kind to your own circumstantial arisings without such harsh judgements.
Be kind. You know it makes sense.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
...
Is he transcending them or wallowing in them?
He's wallowing, but wanting to transcend.
In my opinion, he's going the wrong way about it, was my point. :0)
I'm a strong believer in the power of words to determine our reality. If you oppose life with derogative definitions, you create more negativity and suffering for yourself. If you stay positive and accepting of reality "no matter what," you'll realize that suffering is totally a matter of choice.
Attitude makes a huge difference. Where some people see obstacles, others see opportunities. Some people see the rain, others remark the rainbow.
We are here for a reason. We'll never know why, but we're here and look, it's not that bad. Bad things happen, but good things happen too. Enjoy the good. Brace yourself for the bad. Accept both in equal terms.
@Padmini42: Don't flee from yourself and your life. Remember the sutta I quoted in the thread you created "Here"? Mark that sutta in your mind with fire. Let "here and now" be your mantra from now on. I can't remember where I read that Buddhists have to be warriors. Be a warrior. Create your life. Begin with acceptance... and lots of patience.
The Buddha indeed said that his followers would need to be Kshatriyas..warriors.
He himself was born into the military caste..
was kinda welled up in the negative emotions, so could have worded some of that a little better. will try to keep in mind not to judge the things that come along to harshly.
HEY !! ..........Who doesn't like hanging' out with tax collectors?
Bite your tongue! hahahaha
>
"...IF you can meet with 'Triumph' and 'Disaster',
And treat those two Impostors just the same...."
will do, thanks for helping me get my ego back in check as well as the roller coaster emotions that come along with it
Feel a little bit better now
The mind and heart desires based on how it perceives. When a person has an obsession they build on a simple desire. They find something they like and then feel the need to seek more. Then they get more so they seek more enjoyment out of it. One thing to do is to break this cycle by not looking for more enjoyment and avoiding it. Also, to avoid I dissociate from the situation putting myself inside my head holding on to a single idea and burning away all thought. Another method to avoid is to seek something else that requires concentration. It is best to not think of the desire at all even if it is to tell yourself that you do not want it. "I don't want this" I don't want this." This doesn't remove the thought of the desire or productively change your perception of it.
Method 2 - Change your perceptions:
Suppose we are talking about sexual. If you look at a woman and you see something you like the desire suddenly sparks. The desire is then furthered when you look again seeking more things you like. This builds the desire.
To stop this you find things you don't like. As long as the mind tells you to seek something desirable about what you are looking at you instead look for something undesirable. Even the face is a construct of the mind. People see faces differently and if you look hard enough you might see the face that others see. Shift what you see about them until it seems less or undesirable. You can do this with sound also. Search for pitch or tone or pauses in the way words are spoken until this seems undesirable. Look for deformities, moles, teeth, personality and concentrate on them let them build counters to your desire of the individual.
The same can be done with taste when desiring food. Concentrate on what you do not like while you eat it until it becomes less desirable. Look for more than just taste. Think of everything you can that you dislike about it. Texture, smell, sight, etc...
Break down into the smell see the different parts and define the parts you dislike and bring them out of the smell envision their growth and let them fill you.
You can also make something more desirable if you find it to undesirable by concentrating on things you like about it. Use all the sense and seek out all the aspects of what it is you want to change your perceptions of.
The goal is to induce indifference by making the desirable equal to the undesirables.
In MVHO, @Grayman, the problem is not our desires, rather the craving you attach to them.
We are human beings, so desires come with the territory, and some are very legitimate and natural.
I suppose you are correct but from my understanding craving and desire are the same. I simply see some desires risen to an unhealthy level.
'some are very legitimate' but some are not. I seek to refine and eliminate some of my desires in order to limit the amount of concentration I have to spend on ones that are of no importance but cause me to have issues.
I'll bring up once more my over-used example of the cooky.
If you eat two cookies to unwind after a tiring day at work, that's a legitimate desire and there's nothing wrong with indulging in that desire.
If you munch away a whole box of cookies because your boyfriend walked out on you and you're trying to make up for the loss, that's craving.
Appart from the obvious fact that the second example won't do much for your waistline, it won't add much to your practice either.
Sorry - have not read the replies to the OP, but IMO You cannot stay on the path without slipping or making an error or 2 or 3 or 4...
Self control is a delusion from my perspective. No self?, how do you control something that does not exist...