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@Skeeterkb Hope is really nothing different than wishing something to be different than it is. Any time you expect such things, you end up disappointed. That problem lies with you, and not the rest of us. We might but Buddhist (or part Buddhist, or not Buddhist at all, or Buddhist in philosophy but not religion, or just interested in Buddhism) but if we had all all figured out and were no longer stuck in political, cultural, familial etc ruts, then we wouldn't be here at all. You are at least practicing Buddhism, yes? Why don't you add your unique thoughts instead of telling us all we are doing it wrong? Provide yourself what you are looking for.
Trungpa said that there are three lords of materialism. I believe that our attachment to materialism is what causes a lot of conflicts. One example is resources. Noam Chomsky always talks about how every war has to do with colonialism. I'm not sure if it is just because of his brilliance, but I agree. And then perhaps Noam isn't totally correct as we all know there is conflict of beliefs in this world. The third 'lord' of materialism is attachment to states of mind. I cannot perceive how attaching states of mind leads to borders and conflict, but it is interesting to think about. I guess that agony and defeat of international sports are examples of clinging to a victorious state of mind.
@vinlyn said:
Fair enough. Come back and update me when it happens.
Not long ago, our ancestors were struggling to make fire and cook. Now we are communicating on the internet. If this isn't incredible, I don't know what is.
Compared to that, all nations uniting into one does not seem that illogical or absurd.
@karasti said:
Skeeterkb Hope is really nothing different than wishing something to be different than it is. Any time you expect such things, you end up disappointed. That problem lies with you, and not the rest of us. We might but Buddhist (or part Buddhist, or not Buddhist at all, or Buddhist in philosophy but not religion, or just interested in Buddhism) but if we had all all figured out and were no longer stuck in political, cultural, familial etc ruts, then we wouldn't be here at all. You are at least practicing Buddhism, yes? Why don't you add your unique thoughts instead of telling us all we are doing it wrong? Provide yourself what you are looking for.
Then what is your practice other than an impulse for something "different" ? To accept everything with total passivity is nihilism = a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and** that existence is senseless and useless.**
As for my thoughts on social/political conflict, as per experience all interpersonal conflict is rooted in selfishness and the ego run wild. Group expressions of this are simply individual ego multiplied and magnified. How one labels and rationalizes it is simply a mask for a group consciousness/ego.
PS; I am amused by the frequency with which those who have lived in a capitalist society seek answers in communism and vice versa. All blind grasping at thorns. Reality is that it is the powerful vs the weak and the fix is in.
Also to clarify, I claim no spiritual label. "I AM" a sojourner seeking truth.
@Skeeterkb said:
I am amused by the frequency with which those who have lived in a capitalist society seek answers in communism and vice versa. All blind grasping at thorns.
Interesting. I had never really thought about that.
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
@Skeeterkb said:
PS; I am amused by the frequency with which those who have lived in a capitalist society seek answers in communism and vice versa. All blind grasping at thorns. Reality is that it is the powerful vs the weak and the fix is in.
Also to clarify, I claim no spiritual label. "I AM" a sojourner seeking truth.
They say the grass is greener on the other side but I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle as per usual.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
No, because that's called 'a fence' and sitting on one never did anyone any lasting good....
The grass isn't greener over there, or even in the middle. The only thing you can do is accept the grass where you are, whether it's lush and comfortable or dry and pokey.
@Skeeterkb I know what nihilism is, and no, I do not practice it. I just see no point in continually "hoping" because hope doesn't do anything. It doesn't mean you just say "the hell with it all" but hope doesn't mean much on it's own without actions of some sort to move in the direction of what you are hoping for. I know a lot of people who hope for certain types of bodies, yet continue to sit on the couch and drink beer and eat chips. Hoping is doing nothing for them. That is what I meant. My hoping for peace in the world does nothing if I am unwilling to cultivate peace within myself, my children, and my family. Hope for peace makes no difference what so ever. Living in a manner that develops peace however, does.
Skeeterkb I know what nihilism is, and no, I do not practice it. I just see no point in continually "hoping" because hope doesn't do anything. It doesn't mean you just say "the hell with it all" but hope doesn't mean much on it's own without actions of some sort to move in the direction of what you are hoping for. I know a lot of people who hope for certain types of bodies, yet continue to sit on the couch and drink beer and eat chips. Hoping is doing nothing for them. That is what I meant. My hoping for peace in the world does nothing if I am unwilling to cultivate peace within myself, my children, and my family. Hope for peace makes no difference what so ever. Living in a manner that develops peace however, does.
I enjoyed this post and offer you this in return...
Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us, and the world will live as one
For the younger ones among us, the words above are not mine, they are an excerpt from the song Imagine by the peacenik John Lennon.
Odd that someone would bring up this pop song (and yes, that's all it was...a pop song that turned into more money for John Lennon) on a religious forum. They seem to forget that another part of the lyric is "Imagine...no religion too..." Oops, there goes Buddhism.
And then there's "Imagine no possessions...". John Lennon had a net worth estimated at $800,000,000 in 1980...that would be over $2.8 BILLION dollars in today's currency.
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
@federica said:
No, because that's called 'a fence' and sitting on one never did anyone any lasting good....
You see a fence?
Look closer.
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
edited July 2014
@karasti said:
The grass isn't greener over there, or even in the middle. The only thing you can do is accept the grass where you are, whether it's lush and comfortable or dry and pokey.
That is the easy way to be sure but tell that to the abused.
In reality, compassion in action takes effort and removing unneeded borders between us is compassion in action.
0
Toraldris -`-,-{@ Zen Nud... Buddhist @}-,-`- East Coast, USAVeteran
There is one quote I like from Lennon, and to be honest it's all I really know of him: "When I was 5 years old my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down "happy". They told me that I didn't understand the question. I told them that they didn't understand life."
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited July 2014
MODERATOR NOTE Argumentative and inflammatory O/T comments removed.
There seem to me to be a few pre(mis-)conceptions here:
First: We don't own the land. If anything, it owns us.
Nationalism and flag-idolatry are unskillful beliefs which lead us into rather than away from dukkha.
America, whether the US bit or the Canadian bit or the Mexican, Panamanian, etc., just like the artificial divisions of Europe and elsewhere, will pass away as have every other empire, stste, etc. Just as the Poles if you don't believe me or the Babylonians.
Cultural differences are just that: cultural. A Californian and a a Texan may be siblings under the skin but think differently, as do a Londoner and a Lancastrian. These are accidents not the substance (to be Thomist) of the human. As a Buddhist, I strive to experience the essence, as far as it exists, rather than the accidents.
Those fifty stars should be replaced with fifty corporate symbols. From my own personal experience patriotism here is nothing but racism in disguise. I don' like it but I understand why people feel that way. They are humans like everyone else. They have emotions and they have ignorance.
Compared to that, all nations uniting into one does not seem that illogical or absurd.
I find this obsession with 'personal identity' quite intriguing and a great source of suffering. My affiliation is to the faceless and anonymous who have transcended their home. Yes we have a source birth, a cultural ID, a history but attachments to such histrionics is like pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth . . . or in my case a piece of stuffed cloth . . . :wave: .
@vinlyn said:
Odd that someone would bring up this pop song (and yes, that's all it was...a pop song that turned into more money for John Lennon) on a religious forum. They seem to forget that another part of the lyric is "Imagine...no religion too..." Oops, there goes Buddhism.
I agree with ourself. Consider that the human history is pretty strong proof that the world will be united in one nation/union in some time too come.
If you look at how tribes grew into towns and towns grew into nations and nations combined into countries and now how lately the different countries are forming into alliances, unions and federations, it seems pretty obvious that the world will be united under one rule in some time to come.
There has allways been a strong desire in humans to form aggregations. Through alliances or through war.
/Victor
3
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
@Victorious said:
I agree with ourself. Consider that the human history is pretty strong proof that the world will be united in one nation/union in some time too come.
If you look at how tribes grew into towns and towns grew into nations and nations combined into countries and now how lately the different countries are forming into alliances, unions and federations, it seems pretty obvious that the world will be united under one rule in some time to come.
There has allways been a strong desire in humans to form aggregations. Through alliances or through war.
/Victor
And as we form these groups in order to belong, we still see our uniqueness shine through and disagreements often cause rifts again and subgroups form until it could seem as if belonging is little more than wishful thinking.
That couldn't be further from the truth however because in reality there is only one group and you can't help but belong to it.
I wish we could arrive at a realization that in today's world, our ability to all be allies is much better than any other point in history due to the ease of travel and communication and transportation of resources and relocation to balance things for the better of people and the planet.
I find it ironic we are willing to bomb the crap out of various places in an effort to help them and bring peace to them due to their crazy rulers, but when children arrive at our border for help due to crises in their countries that our country helped create, we turn them away as unworthy of assistance. So backwards.
Stated that way, @Karasti, I can be more in agreement. I like that you use the word "allies".
I think of some of the courses I took in linguistics, and how those interested in language are upset over the loss of so many languages throughout the world. I think of how much I enjoy meeting people from throughout the world and getting to learn about their differing cultures.
vive la différence!
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
I live in a city with over 100 languages and people get along just fine for the most part. Clinging to things like using a certain language may hold some kind of nostalgic worth but it seems like more clinging to a false identity to me. However, that's why having borders to signify preferential living differences is better than pretending the borders actually make us different.
It's funny to me that when someone speaks of a unified world, others see conformity even as it is our differences that will eventually unite us. Afterall, besides being made of the same stuff the only thing absolutely everything has in common is uniqueness and change.
@Skeeterkb said:
I experienced this thread as very disappointing. I am/was hoping that Buddhists would show themselves to be unique, yet when it comes to politics and sociology this thread reads as predictably and trite as an assembly of any other Christian religious groups, atheists and agnostics.. Independence of thought would be refreshing instead of the deeply rutted paths of bumper sticker wisdoms. The liberal vs conservative (communist/fascist) debate is nothing more than propaganda used to delude and divide the weak by the powerful. The powerful are united by their allegiance to power. The bulk of humanity are deluded and aimless, yet self satisfied if they can find some herd to stumble about with. Their cry is I AM DIFFERENT and to prove it I hang with a group where we are all alike each other by being different than them...
sigh...
@skeeterkb I am curious: what exactly did you hope to find, or was disappointed to find instead, in this thread? Your post was all over the place. This thread certainly is nothing like the ones you would find in either a Christian, conservative, or atheist forum precisely because we neither blame one group nor excuse another for the problems getting along. I don't see your problem.
By the way, the ones who talked about tribalism have pegged the problem, in my own opinion. First of all, in spite of what the flag wavers would have you believe, there isn't a lot of people who don't like the American flag or object to it being displayed correctly. Of course, that doesn't hold true for that irritating Confederate flag, but that's a different subject. What we have is imagined victim-hood, the same as the people who claim Christians are persecuted in the public schools. So they search hard for examples, fail to find anything, but jump on the rare isolated case that sort of fits their beliefs. In the flag planter versus HOA example above, it's not about the American flag, but about how HOAs have become little dictators and ran into a condo owner's ego. Sort of like someone yelling that a department store not wanting them to carry loaded assault rifles into the store is somehow part of a conspiracy to take all their guns from them.
The "my country right or wrong" crowd has always existed. It is pure tribalism. What these people long for is the America of Mayberry or Norman Rockwell, white and uncomplicated by anyone different. Never did exist, but that's tribalism for you. Always some golden age in the past we should return to. And we over here in the States have never openly accepted the "teeming refuges yearning to be free" in spite of the hype.
But most of us do manage to get along. The people today trying to block buses of South American children from getting to their assigned dorms so they can be processed are the same type of people who blocked the entrance to the local schools when the little negro children were allowed to attend the all white school, urged on by the same type of populist politician who derives power from making his voters angry at that federal government who thinks they run the country.
As long as people don't promote racism in the name of patriotism, there is no problem flying national flag. I think, currently nazis are doing it South Carolina.
"always remember if it ain't white, it ain't right. White power"
I don't have any problems with flag-waving. I love the tapestry and different meanings of various national flags. I have a tattoo of the Grand Union flag, which predated the well-known current Stars and Stripes. It was the actual flag flown at the signing of the Declaration and carried in George Washington's army. It is a symbol espousing the peculiar English liberties won in the Magna Carta and Glorious Revolution.
It would be off-putting to see my neighbor hoist the Soviet or Confederate flag, but to each their own. Fly whatever flag you damn well please.
I think humanities slide into ignorance started with a concept of who's part of a tribe and who isn't.
The basis of these adversarial conditionings are now so innately interwoven with our psyches that it often takes years of meditative work just to deconstruct them enough to even see them, let alone bring some resolution to their inertia.
Waving a flag of identity around is more realistically saying, over here Dukka, could we have some more suffering, pretty please!
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I think all flags should be banned and replaced with pure white cloths with the country's name simply emblazoned upon it. Flags were once a symbol of patriotism and national pride; now they indicate separatism, superiority and elitism. When it comes to the fact that a country's nationals are advised AGAINST flying their nation's flag, from their own home, because it incites racism and an essence of dominance, you know the place is going to the dogs.... This from 2003.... and attitudes have in fact worsened....
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
We should all have one of those. Yeah.
0
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Sometimes, people is so complicated to understand. I am currently living abroad, in UK. I wouldn't mind if someone fly UK flag next door. I just will be like: "Oh good for them, they are passionate about something, which make them alive and human"
It is interesting that most national flags are composed of straight lines and hard angles, often right angles, which my feminist architect friends have pointed out to me imply patriarchy. "Patriotism is not enough".
I think that Patriotism is the lowest form of morality. "It is good because it is of my group" which implies, "It is bad (or at least less good) because it is not of my group."
@Simonthepilgrim said:
It is interesting that most national flags are composed of straight lines and hard angles, often right angles, which my feminist architect friends have pointed out to me imply patriarchy. "Patriotism is not enough".
National flags are made with straight lines and right angles because women had to sew them together out of bits of coloured cloth. My gran used to sew flags at a local factory, she hated any flags with circles or zig-zags.
@ZenBadger: Precisely my point. Women, paid as little as possible, sewing flags for men to wave as they go to slaughter other men in the name of 'nation states' invented by men. Phallocracy in action.
Comments
Sorry, I'm being cremated...just hopefully not too soon.
I second that!
@Skeeterkb Hope is really nothing different than wishing something to be different than it is. Any time you expect such things, you end up disappointed. That problem lies with you, and not the rest of us. We might but Buddhist (or part Buddhist, or not Buddhist at all, or Buddhist in philosophy but not religion, or just interested in Buddhism) but if we had all all figured out and were no longer stuck in political, cultural, familial etc ruts, then we wouldn't be here at all. You are at least practicing Buddhism, yes? Why don't you add your unique thoughts instead of telling us all we are doing it wrong? Provide yourself what you are looking for.
Trungpa said that there are three lords of materialism. I believe that our attachment to materialism is what causes a lot of conflicts. One example is resources. Noam Chomsky always talks about how every war has to do with colonialism. I'm not sure if it is just because of his brilliance, but I agree. And then perhaps Noam isn't totally correct as we all know there is conflict of beliefs in this world. The third 'lord' of materialism is attachment to states of mind. I cannot perceive how attaching states of mind leads to borders and conflict, but it is interesting to think about. I guess that agony and defeat of international sports are examples of clinging to a victorious state of mind.
You're beginning to sound like me, lol.
Not long ago, our ancestors were struggling to make fire and cook. Now we are communicating on the internet. If this isn't incredible, I don't know what is.
Compared to that, all nations uniting into one does not seem that illogical or absurd.
Then what is your practice other than an impulse for something "different" ? To accept everything with total passivity is nihilism = a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and** that existence is senseless and useless.**
As for my thoughts on social/political conflict, as per experience all interpersonal conflict is rooted in selfishness and the ego run wild. Group expressions of this are simply individual ego multiplied and magnified. How one labels and rationalizes it is simply a mask for a group consciousness/ego.
PS; I am amused by the frequency with which those who have lived in a capitalist society seek answers in communism and vice versa. All blind grasping at thorns. Reality is that it is the powerful vs the weak and the fix is in.
Also to clarify, I claim no spiritual label. "I AM" a sojourner seeking truth.
Interesting. I had never really thought about that.
They say the grass is greener on the other side but I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle as per usual.
No, because that's called 'a fence' and sitting on one never did anyone any lasting good....
The grass isn't greener over there, or even in the middle. The only thing you can do is accept the grass where you are, whether it's lush and comfortable or dry and pokey.
@Skeeterkb I know what nihilism is, and no, I do not practice it. I just see no point in continually "hoping" because hope doesn't do anything. It doesn't mean you just say "the hell with it all" but hope doesn't mean much on it's own without actions of some sort to move in the direction of what you are hoping for. I know a lot of people who hope for certain types of bodies, yet continue to sit on the couch and drink beer and eat chips. Hoping is doing nothing for them. That is what I meant. My hoping for peace in the world does nothing if I am unwilling to cultivate peace within myself, my children, and my family. Hope for peace makes no difference what so ever. Living in a manner that develops peace however, does.
I enjoyed this post and offer you this in return...
^Neat!
Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us, and the world will live as one
For the younger ones among us, the words above are not mine, they are an excerpt from the song Imagine by the peacenik John Lennon.
Odd that someone would bring up this pop song (and yes, that's all it was...a pop song that turned into more money for John Lennon) on a religious forum. They seem to forget that another part of the lyric is "Imagine...no religion too..." Oops, there goes Buddhism.
And then there's "Imagine no possessions...". John Lennon had a net worth estimated at $800,000,000 in 1980...that would be over $2.8 BILLION dollars in today's currency.
You see a fence?
Look closer.
That is the easy way to be sure but tell that to the abused.
In reality, compassion in action takes effort and removing unneeded borders between us is compassion in action.
There is one quote I like from Lennon, and to be honest it's all I really know of him: "When I was 5 years old my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down "happy". They told me that I didn't understand the question. I told them that they didn't understand life."
MODERATOR NOTE Argumentative and inflammatory O/T comments removed.
@ourself, @vinlyn; Pack it in, NOW.
There seem to me to be a few pre(mis-)conceptions here:
First: We don't own the land. If anything, it owns us.
Nationalism and flag-idolatry are unskillful beliefs which lead us into rather than away from dukkha.
America, whether the US bit or the Canadian bit or the Mexican, Panamanian, etc., just like the artificial divisions of Europe and elsewhere, will pass away as have every other empire, stste, etc. Just as the Poles if you don't believe me or the Babylonians.
Cultural differences are just that: cultural. A Californian and a a Texan may be siblings under the skin but think differently, as do a Londoner and a Lancastrian. These are accidents not the substance (to be Thomist) of the human. As a Buddhist, I strive to experience the essence, as far as it exists, rather than the accidents.
Vinlyn, the line "and no religion too" is not in another part of the song -- it's in the very part I quoted!
Those fifty stars should be replaced with fifty corporate symbols. From my own personal experience patriotism here is nothing but racism in disguise. I don' like it but I understand why people feel that way. They are humans like everyone else. They have emotions and they have ignorance.
Yup. My mistake.
I find this obsession with 'personal identity' quite intriguing and a great source of suffering. My affiliation is to the faceless and anonymous who have transcended their home. Yes we have a source birth, a cultural ID, a history but attachments to such histrionics is like pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth . . . or in my case a piece of stuffed cloth . . . :wave: .
>
Only if you count it as a religion.
.
Ya caught me...in a way...since I don't. But most do.
I agree with ourself. Consider that the human history is pretty strong proof that the world will be united in one nation/union in some time too come.
If you look at how tribes grew into towns and towns grew into nations and nations combined into countries and now how lately the different countries are forming into alliances, unions and federations, it seems pretty obvious that the world will be united under one rule in some time to come.
There has allways been a strong desire in humans to form aggregations. Through alliances or through war.
/Victor
And as we form these groups in order to belong, we still see our uniqueness shine through and disagreements often cause rifts again and subgroups form until it could seem as if belonging is little more than wishful thinking.
That couldn't be further from the truth however because in reality there is only one group and you can't help but belong to it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_2003–10 (2003-2010)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_2011–present (2011- present)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_military_conflicts (ongoing conflict; note particularly the map)
Yup, we're just all one big happy family.
I wish we could arrive at a realization that in today's world, our ability to all be allies is much better than any other point in history due to the ease of travel and communication and transportation of resources and relocation to balance things for the better of people and the planet.
I find it ironic we are willing to bomb the crap out of various places in an effort to help them and bring peace to them due to their crazy rulers, but when children arrive at our border for help due to crises in their countries that our country helped create, we turn them away as unworthy of assistance. So backwards.
Stated that way, @Karasti, I can be more in agreement. I like that you use the word "allies".
I think of some of the courses I took in linguistics, and how those interested in language are upset over the loss of so many languages throughout the world. I think of how much I enjoy meeting people from throughout the world and getting to learn about their differing cultures.
vive la différence!
I live in a city with over 100 languages and people get along just fine for the most part. Clinging to things like using a certain language may hold some kind of nostalgic worth but it seems like more clinging to a false identity to me. However, that's why having borders to signify preferential living differences is better than pretending the borders actually make us different.
It's funny to me that when someone speaks of a unified world, others see conformity even as it is our differences that will eventually unite us. Afterall, besides being made of the same stuff the only thing absolutely everything has in common is uniqueness and change.
@skeeterkb I am curious: what exactly did you hope to find, or was disappointed to find instead, in this thread? Your post was all over the place. This thread certainly is nothing like the ones you would find in either a Christian, conservative, or atheist forum precisely because we neither blame one group nor excuse another for the problems getting along. I don't see your problem.
By the way, the ones who talked about tribalism have pegged the problem, in my own opinion. First of all, in spite of what the flag wavers would have you believe, there isn't a lot of people who don't like the American flag or object to it being displayed correctly. Of course, that doesn't hold true for that irritating Confederate flag, but that's a different subject. What we have is imagined victim-hood, the same as the people who claim Christians are persecuted in the public schools. So they search hard for examples, fail to find anything, but jump on the rare isolated case that sort of fits their beliefs. In the flag planter versus HOA example above, it's not about the American flag, but about how HOAs have become little dictators and ran into a condo owner's ego. Sort of like someone yelling that a department store not wanting them to carry loaded assault rifles into the store is somehow part of a conspiracy to take all their guns from them.
The "my country right or wrong" crowd has always existed. It is pure tribalism. What these people long for is the America of Mayberry or Norman Rockwell, white and uncomplicated by anyone different. Never did exist, but that's tribalism for you. Always some golden age in the past we should return to. And we over here in the States have never openly accepted the "teeming refuges yearning to be free" in spite of the hype.
But most of us do manage to get along. The people today trying to block buses of South American children from getting to their assigned dorms so they can be processed are the same type of people who blocked the entrance to the local schools when the little negro children were allowed to attend the all white school, urged on by the same type of populist politician who derives power from making his voters angry at that federal government who thinks they run the country.
Same old, same old.
As long as people don't promote racism in the name of patriotism, there is no problem flying national flag. I think, currently nazis are doing it South Carolina.
"always remember if it ain't white, it ain't right. White power"
.[Published time: July 15, 2014 20:33 http://on.rt.com/93f1s5 ](http://Published time: July 15, 2014 20:33 http://on.rt.com/93f1s5 )
Good luck with that one!
I don't have any problems with flag-waving. I love the tapestry and different meanings of various national flags. I have a tattoo of the Grand Union flag, which predated the well-known current Stars and Stripes. It was the actual flag flown at the signing of the Declaration and carried in George Washington's army. It is a symbol espousing the peculiar English liberties won in the Magna Carta and Glorious Revolution.
It would be off-putting to see my neighbor hoist the Soviet or Confederate flag, but to each their own. Fly whatever flag you damn well please.
I think humanities slide into ignorance started with a concept of who's part of a tribe and who isn't.
The basis of these adversarial conditionings are now so innately interwoven with our psyches that it often takes years of meditative work just to deconstruct them enough to even see them, let alone bring some resolution to their inertia.
Waving a flag of identity around is more realistically saying, over here Dukka, could we have some more suffering, pretty please!
I think all flags should be banned and replaced with pure white cloths with the country's name simply emblazoned upon it. Flags were once a symbol of patriotism and national pride; now they indicate separatism, superiority and elitism. When it comes to the fact that a country's nationals are advised AGAINST flying their nation's flag, from their own home, because it incites racism and an essence of dominance, you know the place is going to the dogs.... This from 2003.... and attitudes have in fact worsened....
I iz home and so iz my flag . . .
We should all have one of those. Yeah.
See, that's what I'm talking about. Until we find we are not alone in the universe.
Sometimes, people is so complicated to understand. I am currently living abroad, in UK. I wouldn't mind if someone fly UK flag next door. I just will be like: "Oh good for them, they are passionate about something, which make them alive and human"
It is interesting that most national flags are composed of straight lines and hard angles, often right angles, which my feminist architect friends have pointed out to me imply patriarchy. "Patriotism is not enough".
I think that Patriotism is the lowest form of morality. "It is good because it is of my group" which implies, "It is bad (or at least less good) because it is not of my group."
National flags are made with straight lines and right angles because women had to sew them together out of bits of coloured cloth. My gran used to sew flags at a local factory, she hated any flags with circles or zig-zags.
@ZenBadger: Precisely my point. Women, paid as little as possible, sewing flags for men to wave as they go to slaughter other men in the name of 'nation states' invented by men. Phallocracy in action.
Down with Phallocracy!
With what will it be replaced?
Maybe people of any gender who think with the organ between their ears rather than their thighs?