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This is wrong motivation for Buddhists. You are still trapped in samsara. When time comes that power is useless. It is terrible way to waste human life.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
@Woah93 said: And this was not merely an isolated, exceptional case, for there were other "long runs"; for instance, there were two cases in which runs of eight straight consecutive successes were scored once with names, and once with cards. In the case of the eight consecutive cards it ha been figured that the chances against the girl would figure up at least 140,000,000 to 1, according to the Law of Average and Probabilities. To understand just what this means it may help you if you will think that the feat was like picking out one chosen man in a population of one hundred and forty millions, nearly double the population of the United States. And yet there are people who would dismiss matters like this with the remark, "mere coincidence"!"
I'm a believer but this kind of statistical manipulation raises questions about the studies to me. For example the odds of flipping a coin and it landing heads up 7 times in a row is 1/128 but if you were to flip a coin 100 times and record all the results the odds of it coming up heads 7 times in row at least once during that time is closer to 1/6. So the "far out" odds aren't quite so dramatic when its included in a larger sample.
I'm not a statistician but I think this kind of thing is rather well known in the field so why would they publish such stats for scientific review when it could easily be refuted?
@Meatball said:
This is wrong motivation for Buddhists. You are still trapped in samsara. When time comes that power is useless. It is terrible way to waste human life.
It might be wrong motivation for Buddhists, but I am not a buddhist. I am a human being who is interested in some if not most of buddha's teachings but who also want's to know what human beings are and their full potential. Not reaching full potential is wasting life IMO.
Am I trapped in samsara? I'm not suffering emotionally or mentally at all, I am quite contend and happy to be where I am and my path resonates with me, that's all I could ever wish for.
I personally don't see the point in limiting my perspective on just buddhism and what it defines as right or wrong, I march to the beat of my own drummer thank you very much. Buddha was only human, and so am I. What makes buddha so vastly superior? I don't agree with the notion that enlightenment is some vague path which is only achieved by the few, or requires lifetimes of mastery or training. I just don't buy that, and I don't buy the notion of any figure or teacher having the final say over anything for that matter.
@Victorious
Well we are all adults here, I'm not holding back on my views to keep people comfortable, besides, fear is not a useful emotion to have if potential for harm is not present in that moment or situation, so I trust a forum dedicated to buddhism to be able to handle it.
There all kinds of people and buddhist or not people are just people. And to most you sound like a loon right now.
Most observant people know about Bush and his skull companions. But it is all inconclusive. Doesn't mean nothing really.
What you forget about the world is that there are rules that nobody can break. Beings are heir to their karma. It is not possible to do anything. Karma does not care if you are a buddhist or not. If I were you I would read up and be careful. What happens in vegas does not stay in vegas in this case. Listen to Meatball.
Its easy to bend but not to break. Buddhism is about observing through direct knowleadge. Do not let your monkey mind run away with you. See what is there and do not speculate so much.
Just some advice from someone who's done some really freaky stuff.
@Woah93 said:
Putting thoughts in a person's mind comes pretty close though, haha. I can have a pretty big influence in decisions of coworkers if I try hard enough, and they would never know lol. I think that is the reason why the higher ups in government and the like are so obsessed with occult rituals, symbols and mind control lol. Just look at the vatican for god's sake, black magic requires child sacrifice and molestation and it's all over the place, and to this day the pope refuses to take actual action.
Um....ok?? What higher ups in our gov't are obsessed with occult rituals and mind control? What black magic in the Vatican, what child sacrifice?
.
:eek2: .
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
As requested:
substantiate with serious and official links, or I delete the lot.
Now you are seriously talking utter cluptrop.
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Toraldris -`-,-{@ Zen Nud... Buddhist @}-,-`- East Coast, USAVeteran
I spy with my little eye a conspiracy theorist.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited July 2014
@Woah93 said: It might be wrong motivation for Buddhists, but I am not a buddhist.
>
All very well, but this isn't a general forum. It's a Buddhist one, and as such, you are a guest here. Therefore it is beholden on you to interact with others in a manner in keeping with the general theme of this forum. It is not up to us to move our goalposts to accommodate you....
I am a human being who is interested in some if not most of buddha's teachings but who also want's to know what human beings are and their full potential. Not reaching full potential is wasting life IMO.
>
How is subscribing to unsubstantiated, unproven, wild accusations 'reaching full potential'?
You're not educating, you're scaremongering.
Am I trapped in samsara? I'm not suffering emotionally or mentally at all, I am quite contend and happy to be where I am and my path resonates with me, that's all I could ever wish for.
>
You believe you are not suffering Emotionally or mentally, but your post content indicates otherwise. The inclusion of random ramblings with nothing to back them up, seems to be off-the-wall to us....
I personally don't see the point in limiting my perspective on just buddhism and what it defines as right or wrong,
>
We don't define anything as right or wrong. we define things as skillful or unwholesome, conducive to practice or inhibiting.
I march to the beat of my own drummer thank you very much. Buddha was only human, and so am I. What makes buddha so vastly superior?
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His achievement of Enlightenment. Will people still be talking about you 300 years after your life ends?
I don't agree with the notion that enlightenment is some vague path which is only achieved by the few, or requires lifetimes of mastery or training.
>
Neither do we. There's absolutely nothing 'vague' about it at all.
What DO you believe about Enlightenment?
I just don't buy that, and I don't buy the notion of any figure or teacher having the final say over anything for that matter.
>
Neither do we.
We're not yes-men or brainless sheep, you know. You have obviously not come across the Kalama Sutta. The Buddha insists that WE have the final word on what we follow or don't follow.
You haven't actually learnt a great deal about Buddhism, have you?
Don't judge my emotional state or suffering on a post on an internet forum. Believe it or not I have little emotional investment in this. I just make my point across without worrying if I look like a "loony" or not. I know it's weird, but it's possible to venture outside the boundaries of common beliefs and the shared idea of what is normal and not loose your mind. Again "off the wall", "random ramblings" and what is even more amusing is the mention about people talking about someone else for 300 years, as if that makes anyone more important other then popular belief and a name slapped on it.
You know people change minds, develop, and change attitudes and outlooks, somehow religious figures would never do that. What was once said and is recorded and regurgitated several amounts is set in stone. Sounds rather imprisoning.
You're right if these comments are reflections of buddhist philosophy I haven't got a clue of what it is about, discussion leading to dead ends, name calling, ignoring content of arguments... pretty much the usual. This made me smile a little, I think buddha would be amused as well. I guess this discussion is mute, funny how you mention enlightenment with a capital like it's some special achievement, name me a conclusive list of enlightened people with data and proof of THAT and convince me it isn't bullshit, how about some proof for that karma?
Keep striving and chasing that endless ideal, like that will create anything but desire... how disempowering. Nonetheless I wish all of you well with your endeavor. I'm not really on the same page as you anymore I guess, I guess I need medication or a long stay at a psych ward right? Good day!
There's psychic power and there's psycho power, they are interchangeable, people can go from being psychic to psycho.... (and I should know ....I've been there and done that) . :eek: .. . :eek2: ..
Looking looney, your point won't really come across, will it?
Thinking outside the box is not weird, its pretty commonplace.
Who is talking about who for 300 years? And there are awakened people in the world in case you did not know but I doubt you would recognize them if you saw them.
If you really want to learn then I suggest you get busy cause me for one am not really into convincing rude people of anything.
Nibbana is not endless other than in the sense that the unconstructed is endless but I think some medication would be good in your case. Or just some mindfullness and metta practice.
I personally found no issues with your posts, I really can't see the point of 'clinging' to what's been said,but that's just me and I'm a little weird in a detached kinda way, plus let us not forget, we're all floating in the same dukkha flavored samsaric soup ...
I'm sorry that you feel unwelcome and I can only wish you all the best...
I’m a skeptic about psychic powers. If they were easy - and just required an open mind and some willpower - they would be all around and verified.
Monks are forbidden to demonstrate their supernatural powers. I think this rule is just too convenient. It allows rumors about their abilities to circle without any facts backing them up.
Another thing is the idea that it takes strong faith for someone to be capable of performing some supernatural action. One really has to believe in it in order to make it happen.
That’s a nice pitfall for you. When the skeptical observer is here, the magic is not; when the magic is here, the skeptical observer is not.
That’s what’s so good about the Randi offer. Win a million dollar. Roll the pen (or whatever) in a controlled environment observed by a few people who will rule out fraud and confirmation bias.
Since the challenge was first created by Randi in 1964, about a thousand people have applied, but no one has been successful.
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@Woah93 said:
Don't judge my emotional state or suffering on a post on an internet forum. Believe it or not I have little emotional investment in this. I just make my point across without worrying if I look like a "loony" or not. I know it's weird, but it's possible to venture outside the boundaries of common beliefs and the shared idea of what is normal and not loose your mind.
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Could you define where and what they are? The Jury is out on what IS normal.
You know people change minds, develop, and change attitudes and outlooks,
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That is precisely, what we as Buddhists are working on. Changing our minds.
Buddhism is a Mind-orientated practice.
somehow religious figures would never do that.
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Who are you referring to?
What was once said and is recorded and regurgitated several amounts is set in stone. Sounds rather imprisoning.
Only if it isn't true, or doesn't really work. That's the wonderful aspect of Buddhism. it doesn't fetter. It RELEASES.
This is what I mean about you coming onto a Buddhist forum and declaring your ideas with a resounding fanfare, but then taking offence when we tell you it's all just extra tripe to work through, weigh up and consider.
You're right if these comments are reflections of buddhist philosophy I haven't got a clue of what it is about, discussion leading to dead ends, name calling, ignoring content of arguments...
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Examples please? If you make accusations like that, be sure to be able to BACK - THEM - UP.
Pretty much the usual. This made me smile a little, I think buddha would be amused as well. I guess this discussion is mute, funny how you mention enlightenment with a capital like it's some special achievement, name me a conclusive list of enlightened people with data and proof of THAT and convince me it isn't bullshit, how about some proof for that karma?
First of all, kindly watch your language.
There are no word-blocks in place, because people are expected to know what is acceptable in language, and what isn't. What is written on forum tends to stay. It's a different circumstance to daily speech and interaction, so mind your words.
Secondly, there ARE Enlightened people on this Earth. Just because you haven't met them is no indication they do not exist.
And Again, you obviously have little idea of Kammic process....
Keep striving and chasing that endless ideal, like that will create anything but desire... how disempowering. Nonetheless I wish all of you well with your endeavor. I'm not really on the same page as you anymore I guess, I guess I need medication or a long stay at a psych ward right? Good day!
>
What you need to understand is that ultimately, we ask ourselves "How conducive is this to my Practice? How valuable is it to me for my progress?"
You have amply demonstrated that it's utterly pointless, futile and of little or no worth.
It's a shame that you take offence when challenged, and expect us to be 'open-minded'. You cannot see just how open-minded we are, because we have considered your input and found it wanting. So now you're taking your ball and have decided to go play with others who won't be so challenging, and will be more ready to accept your 'mess-with-the-head' philosophy? OK. Thanks for coming in.
Federica, I'm saying those things not necessarily because I believe all of it to be true (the psychic manipulation), but because a lot of people in power do, since people with power have direct influence on your life if you live in a city, and are engaged I think it's relevant information to have regarding events going on.
Yes I get defensive and yes I throw out most of my anger and frustration when I post, but accepting those emotions and allow them to come out of you beats keeping it inside and allow yourself to be a ticking timebomb. I hope I didn't personally offend anyone, my frustrations were merely general and not really aimed at specific individuals per se.
That being said, now can you give me a clear question on what kind of backing up you refer too? If photographs, video, public record and testimony isn't enough then I'm afraid I can't offer you any, as I came to these conclusions not trying to search for stuff like this, but after researching and being curious for a long time about politics, history, cultures and what not you tend to notice resurfacing patterns and dots start to connect. I can't share that in a post. So please, ask me what you want to see, and I'll do some digging.
Anyway, my apologies for being so fierce, I get a little "passionate" sometimes lol.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
.....
but because a lot of people in power do, since people with power have direct influence on your life if you live in a city, and are engaged I think it's relevant information to have regarding events going on.
>
You simply cannot make unsubstantiated yet dustily vague statements like this and expect people to take them seriously.
Such comments border on slanderous, and as such, you either need to substantiate them with something concrete and evidential - or refrain from making them.
I see you are careful to not name or even allude to those 'in power' but this does nothing to validate your comments, nor does it invite us to accept what you say.
Therefore, links to those approaches (photographs, videos, public records and testimonies) from official certifiable links, not from someone's secretly-hidden dodgy obscure-image mobile phone, will do nicely.
Nice to see you are still with us, and I'm glad you are, but please know my comments still stand: You are a guest here (albeit a most welcome one) but you have to understand, this is a Buddhist forum. we evaluate Mind and its machinations in a different way to you.
Rather than imply we're stagnating and refusing to 'see things clearly' (in a nutshell, not to quote you) examine the rudiments and details of Buddhism and what it entails, and why we consider things as we do....
remember; as the only religion on the planet without a fixed deity or godhead, we are bound to do things a little differently!
@Woah93 said:
Federica, I'm saying those things not necessarily because I believe all of it to be true (the psychic manipulation), but because a lot of people in power do, since people with power have direct influence on your life if you live in a city, and are engaged I think it's relevant information to have regarding events going on.
What people in power, who? What mind-control?
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@Dakini, I have already asked for clarification and substantiated and verifiable links, and am now awaiting for production of same....
I'm glad I'm not the only one asking though.
So, you see, @Woah93, sensational statements are unacceptable, with no underpinning data to back them up....
Wiki says: David Richmond Gergen (born May 9, 1942) is an American political commentator and former presidential advisor who served during the administrations of Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, and Bill Clinton.[1] Not a small player by all means, also from wiki:
He is currently a Senior Political Analyst for CNN[2] and a Professor of Public Service and Director of the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School. Gergen is also the former Editor-at-Large of U.S. News and World Report[3] and contributor to CNN.com and Parade Magazine. He has twice been a member of election coverage teams that won Peabody awards—in 1988 with MacNeil-Lehrer, and in 2008 with CNN.
So, the influence at CNN by persons of this nature is definitely reason for concern about what you are being told.
Some more data and lists of members, backed by pictures taken:
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited July 2014
Are you serious? This is the most public 'private' club in the western world. It has its own Wikipedia page, and a large number of members are journalists.
You expect all of them to be in on something sinister?
And who the hell is 'Timothy'?
That is one hell of a funny document. Plenty of assumptions and theories, but honestly?
It's badly written, it has facts thrown together as if they all have some deep, alternative mysterious hidden meaning, and it jumps from subject to subject with little or no continuity.... And some of the facts are well... so what?
Laughable. Totally ridiculous, and i hte to say it, not all that intelligent.
The connections he makes about the owl, its symbolism and how depraved it all is, is just a wild ranting. It is, really, it is....
I'm sorry, but if this is all you're going on, I cannot take such tripe seriously.
Don't you have anything contemporary? The video is dated early 80's....
@federica you wanted me to show some involved in rituals and symbolism, this is the most well known piece, because yes, it's old but it was revealed in a time with less censorship hence the official pages. Those in the group aren't real "journalists", journalists tell what is happening, they don't do that. This isn't a private group at all, this WAS a private group which became exposed, and those cases provide the clearest pictures of groups who are now currently hidden. I'm not claming to have knowledge of all these groups and what they are and who they are, but I do know that a substantial ammount of people which are oddly enough all in places like education systems, religious institutions, politicians and bigwig bankers can be traced back to secret society's like these. Why is it so secret? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group is holding these converences which are entirely in secret and is not allowed to be filmed, talked about or otherwise exposed in the public realm. Notice that ALL positions of power including media, corporations and presidents attend these meetings. But isn't it a scandal that global matters which affect everyone are discussed in SECRET?
Considering this club is attended by rockefeller which is one of the most powerful individuals of the world who can basically print money and owns the federal reserve it seems to me like all this "centralization" going on is done with a strategy in mind.
Zeitgeist offers a pretty reasonable explanation of it, but isn't debatable information, this is accepted FACT, even kennedy blatantly spoke out during his famous speech before he was shot.
Owning more money then 98% of the other persons in your nation is huge power. Doesn't it concern you that Rockefeller controls influence of education through funding, healthcare through funding, food through monsanto starting with the green revolution, and your money? Doesn't it concern you that those things are controlled and influenced by an amount of people that could fit in one house?
@Victorious That it is wise to take these matters of occult beliefs seriously, if you are affected by people who practice such beliefs. I'm not implying believing it yourself, but isn't it rather foolish to make decisions regarding finance, politics, education and media when you aren't aware of the mindset and reasoning of people who own it? Walking around blind can lead you into places you might not wanna go.
Skillful or not, you can talk about it all you want after your a debt slave, but then it will be too late. The sad fact is that the economy is designed to suck out all resources to the banks. With recourses I mean houses, land, property etc. Not digital numbers or green printed papers which is has dropped to 0,2% of value since the federal reserve was created. It's funny that the reason for that was to maintain dollar VALUE. Don't you see a huge fraud and actual intention to these scenarios? How much do you need to be convinced?
Edit: Let me make mention as well that no I do not believe in "evil" men working to make us suffer. I do however believe that those do this for the need to control and really believe that because they know best, for our OWN good they will guide us. I don't think it's unlikely that given extremely influential and high positions of power these mentality's can infect a lot of genuine people.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
No. I wanted literal, contemporary, written evidential proof on what you claim is psychic mind control by certain people in power. I want proof of the rituals you say go on within the Catholic church.
I think that is the reason why the higher ups in government and the like are so obsessed with occult rituals, symbols and mind control lol. Just look at the vatican for god's sake, black magic requires child sacrifice and molestation and it's all over the place, and to this day the pope refuses to take actual action.
>
I want proof of the line below:
I'm saying those things not necessarily because I believe all of it to be true (the psychic manipulation), but because a lot of people in power do, since people with power have direct influence on your life if you live in a city, and are engaged I think it's relevant information to have regarding events going on.
>
And by the way - I am British. Frankly, all this scare-mongering and over-inflated theory matters not a jot to me.
Every single Government in the world is up to something shady at one point or another. Of course they are. Things they either don't want the public to know, or believe would be damaging for the public to know. Whichever it is, it happens.
Everywhere.
And frankly, I'm neither surprised, nor do I expect to be able to know everything, or demand that right.
National secrecy may cover a multitude of sins, but while some secrets may be outrageous, some secrets are necessary. National security and all that.
I'm sure if we were to all know exactly everything our governments get up to, our heads would explode.
So, really, unless you can provide something more definitive than a full page cartoon claiming this that and the other, and give documented evidence on the clear statements you have made, above, I shall shut the door on this once and for all.
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Toraldris -`-,-{@ Zen Nud... Buddhist @}-,-`- East Coast, USAVeteran
edited July 2014
Rockefeller has been mentioned. Next come the Illuminati and Majestic 12. Where's my popcorn? This is great stuff for video games (e.g. "Deus Ex"), and for movies, but it really does sound like the political version of what the UFO enthusiasts do. They have plenty of stuff they bring up when they're talking about government cover-ups and how the aliens are influencing us, even living among us (or maybe lizard people influencing government from underground). It's an extreme case of confirmation bias, picking little bits here and there that support the theories and ignoring literally everything else (or calling contrary evidence a purposeful distortion to lead us astray from "the truth").
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited July 2014
This is the aspect of sensationalism that annoys me. Taking 2 + 2 and making 47. Taking ordinary, run-of-the-mill data and stating that it's a means of control and manipulation.
Has it ever occurred to whomever compiled the junk-data above that perhaps it's the media responding to public demand?
The information about "Mrs Robinson" doesn't surprise me. Nostalgia is big business. Retro things are worth a small fortune. Radio broadcasts older material because it's popular. The grown-up generation of 'Middle-agers' is the most influential social strata, and as such, they hark back to those days. When Music was melodic, rhythmic and easy to listen to, lyrics were decipherable and musicians actually played real-live instruments.
Taking information like that and claiming it's all one great big ploy to control people's thinking.
tell you what: Turn it off. Dispense with radio, TV and papers.
Sorted. How hard is that?
I watch TV maybe once a week, and even then, only for around an hour or so.
Nature Documentaries, comedy programmes, the odd really good serial.
I do not read papers. Waste of time and money.
I listen to BBC Radio 2.
I have musical preferences, and I also operate the on/off switch with remarkable ease.
Please send me your mind. I will wash it. Then consider yourself brain washed and open to the possibility that no one with an empty mind is controllable by occultists, secret manipulators or cushions with agendas . . .
Hope that helps . . . before 'they' get me . . . .
@AldrisTorvalds said:
Rockefeller has been mentioned. Next come the Illuminati and Majestic 12. Where's my popcorn? This is great stuff for video games (e.g. "Deus Ex"), and for movies...
I bring in the popcorn, @Aldris, but I warn you I might doze off anytime. Seen this film before... @Woah93 talked about psychedelic mushrooms consumption on another thread, so my hunch here (talk about psychic powers, boy!) is much of those comments (including the ball pen incident) are related to that habit...
Now I see why Woah asks on another thread about concentration or relaxation techniques... I mean, is there a way to hush all that mind chatter?
@Woah93 said:
Victorious That it is wise to take these matters of occult beliefs seriously, if you are affected by people who practice such beliefs. I'm not implying believing it yourself, but isn't it rather foolish to make decisions regarding finance, politics, education and media when you aren't aware of the mindset and reasoning of people who own it? Walking around blind can lead you into places you might not wanna go.
Of course but I hope you realise that that footage does not in any way assert supernormal means of manipulation to them?
What buddhist cultivation does is that it makes you better able not be affected by manipulation. To see outside the box and stay on your own course.
Skillful or not, you can talk about it all you want after your a debt slave, but then it will be too late. The sad fact is that the economy is designed to suck out all resources to the banks. With recourses I mean houses, land, property etc. Not digital numbers or green printed papers which is has dropped to 0,2% of value since the federal reserve was created. It's funny that the reason for that was to maintain dollar VALUE. Don't you see a huge fraud and actual intention to these scenarios? How much do you need to be convinced?
Eer I am a debt slave as it is and am totally aware of the implications. It is something I have chosen to become.
Buddhism does not condone it but there are no tabus in buddhism as you are probably aware. The question is always what the alternative is. For me the alternative would have been less fortunate than what I have. And I wonder since you are so aware of this fraud. What are you doing about it. And how has this knowledge changed your life?
Edit: Let me make mention as well that no I do not believe in "evil" men working to make us suffer. I do however believe that those do this for the need to control and really believe that because they know best, for our OWN good they will guide us. I don't think it's unlikely that given extremely influential and high positions of power these mentality's can infect a lot of genuine people.
Again how has this belief benefited you? what changes have you made to your life on account of this belief?
Please do give me some hint and pointers to what should be done to regulate my life better?
@federica said:
National secrecy may cover a multitude of sins, but while some secrets may be outrageous, some secrets are necessary. National security and all that.
Off Topic warning:
Yepp and just see how the latest scandal is evolving still in the wake of Edvard Snowden.
Now there are claims from former NSA employees that 80% of all actual conversations on US phones are being recorded!
Bahnhof that is a ISP in sweden reported that the swedish SÄPO is pressuring them for directlines into their datalines. Other ISP:s has confirmed this.
Links in swedish but it is the official swedish national (government) radio reporting this.
Tell you the truth I am a bit divided. I do not like it but on the other hand I do not really mind them listening in on my conversations... By all means please do.
None of this requires any supernormal powers though.
Speaking about Powers. One reason I am pretty sure that Sherlock Holmes is buddhist is because he always sees what is there, nothing else. :thumbsup: .
For me I will believe in anything, mystical powerish etc, that I can do myself. The rest is only probabilities.
But on the other hand I have been able to learn to do so much that I previously thought was just impossible or even ludicrous that I have a really open mind nowadays.
Still. Only truly believe in what you can do on your own is a good rule of thumb.
/Victor
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Alrighty then.
The only power I'd bother with is the power to make everybody a telepath and have it so we can fine tune it to block out unwanted frequencies (or whatever).
Enough of the bullspit, dig what I'm saying?
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
After reading that again, I suppose I should clarify. It could sound as if I'm claiming these abilities are fake but I take no stance on that.
I just think it would do wonders if deceit was impossible.
Reading minds mi compadre is an ability everybody has, or as it is phrased in the old texts, to understand/see the heart of others.
In fact it is often an invaluable tool in any human to human interaction. It is sought for by employers in their future employees and people lacking it are classified as abnormal in society.
In fact people with high skills in this are often elevated in society and given high salaries and much responsibility over others.
In fact humans and I think some species of monkeys/apes have hardwired neourons that enable us to do this.
This is why ridicule should be used as wisely as admiration.
The things you admire and respect will be the things that you unconsciously mirror and aim at and that which ridicule and laugh at will be the last thing your mind will be able to encompass.
IF anybody feels I am pointing fingers at them. I probably am. :nyah: .
According to the Visuddhi Magga there are a number of ways to "get" the 10 enumerated "powers" in the Dhamma.
Being born with them. Like a bird can fly and primates read each others hearts.
Through Kasina/jhana cultivation. Or ....
Through Science. Ta daa!!! Yepp thats right folks, Says right there in this book from 430 CE. Through science you can fly or, the book continues to enumerate, make pictures appear in midair etc. (We haven't got there yet but does anybody really doubt it now?)
Makes you wonder how they got that right? Makes you wonder if somebody made the effort and learned how to glimpse future existences maybe? And then it strikes you. Is that possible using science?
Wanna know more? .
/Victor
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Through Science. Ta daa!!! Yepp thats right folks, Says right there in this book from 430 CE. Through science you can fly or, the book continues to enumerate, make pictures appear in midair etc. (We haven't got there yet but does anybody really doubt it now?)
Makes you wonder how they got that right? Makes you wonder if somebody made the effort and learned how to glimpse future existences maybe? And then it strikes you. Is that possible using science?
Sorry, what do you mean, 'we haven't got there yet'...?
Of course we have got there already -
Aeroplanes fly, television comes from 'mid-air'. And what about holographic images?
Haha as accepted a jab at me because of my other threads or comments, I knew psychedelic mushrooms would be mentioned. Just shows though an offensive attempt that is lacking of any substance, other than the apparent motive to again, ridicule or somehow offend me. None taken @DharmaMom don't loose sleep over it ok?
Anyway sorry I guess we will have to disagree on the occult rituals, as for my own reasons I will not post more about it then I already have on the matter.
Snowden is a disinformation agent... They tell you a little bit of truth then go off the ball and lead people to nowhere or make the part of truth in that story ridiculous by adding insane ideas to it. Come on, checking on phones or emails? I don't even read my emails! I don't care about that haha, I do care about NSA having owned computers of current levels 30 years ago and I can't even begin to imagine what they might have now. Snowden decides he exposes people listening to phone convo's? Lol.
David Icke has solid idea's and he sells out all over the world with 9 hour speeches and strikes me as a remarkably intelligent person, but suddenly he started talking about the queen of england being actually a shapeshifting lizard in disguise, and the moon being a constructed alien base for mind control. They gain an entire following by sharing valid facts and knowledge and then disempower it by shitting all over it with ridiculous idea's.
Same with Alex Jones which is one of those "conspiracy loons" but at the same time has a CIA agent employed. These guys are massively known and unlike other exposers such as Michael Jackson, Bob Marley, Kennedy, Bill Cooper etc there were not even attempt of assassinations on them.
What am I doing about it?
1: I'm telling people, obvious, this thread made a difference even if one person saw it and actually began researching it himself. .
2: I have quit contributing to this fraud. I don't have a mortgage, I don't take up loans, I don't buy anything I don't agree with. I withdraw support from things that don't resonate with me, I have convinced many not to join the militairy. And I'm striving to become self sufficient with solar energy, planting my own food, and a steady supply of water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthship A lot of people do it.
Other changes this knowledge has brought to my life is no more TV, I spend my time much wiser now, meditating, relaxing outside, generally enjoying REAL things instead of hypnotic entertainment in a box.
Perhaps the biggest change which changed my consciousness was food.
No more aspartame, no more fluoride from tap water or toothpaste, no more buckets of sugar, and I can say that physically and mentally I am a new person. Mental ability vastly increased, my diagnosed "ADD" disappeared and I no longer suffer from depression.
I also gained this ability of mind power which has done great things for me.
These things happening don't make me scared or sad, they empower me actually. A crappy society where everything is random and just jumbled up chaos filled with suffering, wars, poverty and cruelty is way more scary then the way things are to me. The way things actually are, suggests that there is hope for humans to rise above this, and rise to a better state of awareness.
Even IF these things were ALL false, they would STILL create major positive changes in the system and it is doing that right now at a speed which is mind blowing and it's increasing by the day. Less greed, more free thinkers, people will stop fighting for other people in the army, people will have more compassion for one another and live a live based on actual morals and values, instead of money, status and social acceptance.
That is what my goal is, take an active part in this process of tiny tweaks which will hopefully create something positive, I'm just hoping to create a ripple effect in my environment, no matter how ridiculous I may seem to some.
Anyway I get our opinions differ but I hope we share the same view in that unity and compassion/empathy is a good thing to be striving towards, so I hope this argument didn't offend anyone as I really didn't intend to, I lost my temper, and it was uncalled for, anyhow namaste
Haha lobster we don't have to agree on everything to share the same ideals or values, I don't think anyone of us wants more suffering in the world, so it is a good thing that many people spend time on different things, if everyone was into buddhism we would be lacking in science, if nobody researched conspiracy, history would have quite a few gaps and leaders could get away with everything they wanted, so I guess it's a working balance, and if a path contributes to general improvement in your life all the better, buddhism improves my life, knowledge does too, questioning everything does as well, so I do that and it works for me
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” -Buddha
Back on topic:
My thought on psychic powers are that if we communicate through radio, EMF waves and electricity with our current technology which travels through the ether, it is not unlikely that, given the activity of our brains which holds electrical activity and waves measurable by equipment, the influence of your environment can be possible with mind. Electricity is not bound to wiring as it creates induction and can skip certain distances to pass on to the next wire, and that happens frequently.
Waveforms hold vast amounts of information in the universe, light, sound, heat, and, brainstates also can be measured in waves, and "electronic" activity in the brain, which tells us at the very least that the brain DOES share some resemblance to the communication devices we have now How do you move your hand? You "will" it to move and the "energy" akin to electricity travels through the nerve system and does it. If that same "energy" capable of thought or emotional "colour" can somehow be proven able to skip distances then that would be THE confirmation of existance of these powers I think.
Anyhow when we look at personal experience don't we all have these powers? Haven't we "felt" it when a pissed off person walked into the room? Or came in contact with individuals which radiate strength and confidence? In the perspective of magnetic fields, induction or "aura" of persons, these gut feelings seem to suddenly make extreme sense.
Given that we still can't define electricity, we do know that electricity can cross distances over wires through sparks, electricity can also create influence through induction, so the same may hold true for mind activity, depending on strength of said activity.
I guess I will stop here, I think we will just have to again, agree to disagree, you're right as in that I'm a guest here so I will refrain from heated arguments any further
@Whoa93, Pema Chodron talked about how we get hooked on beliefs. I think the idea of conspiracy comes from paranoia. You get sucked in by the vibe I guess because it somehow resonates with your personality or somehow meets a need you have.
I liked in one of your statements related to how you feel:
Yes I get defensive and yes I throw out most of my anger and frustration when I post, but accepting those emotions and allow them to come out of you beats keeping it inside and allow yourself to be a ticking timebomb
I believe we all experience that. That is the big question. How do you express what turmoil you are have going on in your head. You are right that it hurts when you are not finding the acknowledgement of your beliefs or I guess you could understand it as being a square peg in a round hole.
I feel like this a lot. What I am trying to express is that you get off kilter. That is one translators word for 'dukkha'. I'm a little confused about what helps. It is daunting to try to 'improve' because, like you say, you have a lot of anger. You have to express yourself I feel because otherwise you get bottled up. That feels horrible. If you can manage it go to therapy. There are a lot of other teachings in Buddhism that support calming down from anger and letting go of basic misunderstandings in thinking.
It will take time, effort, compassion, honesty, and yes humor.
Yeah I think we all experience this. However, I can look back at the time I spent just meditating and not any of the "conspiracy" I spend time looking into now and I experienced the same kind of anger, paranoia indicates a certain fear or distrust.
I don't distrust people for no obvious reasons and give benefit of the doubt all the time, I research these things because I am very curious about most things, especially about important things like nutrition, information, culture and many more regarding human endeavors in this world.
The anger... it just has to come out sometimes, however, the way in which it comes out and the frequency in which I do could be vastly improved I agree, however I feel very much at peace and "in harmony" with my life generally.
I have a very busy mind at times of course, but it isn't "monkey mind" as in out of control and causing suffering. Meditation has become key in grounding and keeping control of my mind.
Perhaps control is the wrong word, but you know what I mean, control of response to the mind...
I don't agree with therapy, I don't need anyone to tell me what to do or what's right to think or wrong to think, again, I prefer to beat to the march of my own drummer. Could that be a long and tedious path? Probably. Will it take longer than therapy? Most likely. But I prefer seeing all sides of the battle for myself, and I truly believe experiencing the "bad" in it's fullest, has the potential to soften you to make room for compassion, honesty and humor more so then therapy could ever do for me.
@Victor, I like what you said, but I think some people can be oblivious to the gifts that they have. My teacher talked about the Buddha energies: vajra (wanting to know), Ratna (wanting it all), padma (wanting to feel), karma (wanting to do), and Buddha (wanting to be)..
So I believe that there is already enough vajra energy in the universe. It's not neccessary to possess a lot of vajra in your conscious mind. The true development is compassion and wisdom, and they are fused. Wisdom is the wisdom of letting go. The mind is always luminous including all ages and mentally ill and developmentally handicapped. Wisdom is always related to compassion or it is just and there is some message from the heart. This is how I was thinking when my Lama answered an email about being psychotic from too much pressure. She said that what we do is put ourselves in a position to understand emptiness but we don't want to spin out into paranoia and we should make adjustments to feel integrated?
@federica said:
Aeroplanes fly, television comes from 'mid-air'. And what about holographic images?
Well lets leave some room for interpretation. If anybody would read the text and care to comment maybe?
The translated wording is
That beginning with travelling through the air in the case of masters
of the sciences is
success through the sciences
, according as it is said: “What is
success through the sciences? Masters of the sciences, having pronounced their
scientific spells, travel through the air, and they show an elephant in space, in
the sky ... and they show a manifold military array”
Well I actually think it is great the life choices you have made. I lack a TV too but we do watch media on the computer so that is mute. We try to eat organic as much as possible and avoid sugar etc. Even grow some of our own food. But is this not pretty much how people are trying to live today at large?
This kind of living is gaining. Next step is to get a windmill for electricity. I believe that is more economic up here...
I do not know what to believe about you. Some things make sense but then you say things that has no basis in reality what so ever. The claims you make make no sense at all. Maybe you are leaving half the picture out?
Leaving other things aside lets focus on Snowden. On what basis do you consider him a dis informant? Who is he dis informing and on who's behalf? Whats his agenda?
What grounds do you have for that?
Tell you what. Lets continue this in PM? PM me the answer please? So we do not derail the thread.
@Jeffrey said:
Victor, I like what you said, but I think some people can be oblivious to the gifts that they have. My teacher talked about the Buddha energies: vajra (wanting to know), Ratna (wanting it all), padma (wanting to feel), karma (wanting to do), and Buddha (wanting to be)..
Do you have any more material on this please? I would like to delve...
And ...
She said that what we do is put ourselves in a position to understand emptiness but we don't want to spin out into paranoia and we should make adjustments to feel integrated?
Normally I am not much for teachers but I really wish I had heard this 15 years ago...This is what I am learning NOW. Sigh.
@federica said:
An elephant in space? Jumbo jet, maybe? Not kidding, either...
I think the meaning is a picture of an elephant. That is how my teacher explained it (attributed to the word show). We are left to interpretation. As always.
He knew 30 languages or so. I was 17 or so at the time. I didnt argue. .
/Victor
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited July 2014
Bit of a ruddy coincidence though, wouldn't you say?
I mean, many people put great store in Nostradamus' predictions which were often couched in flowery, vague terms, yet bringing them into the 20th century and using modern terminology which strangely, when overlaid on top of his predictions, made sense...
Simply because a picture of an elephant was used, doesn't mean that it had to be taken literally.... it was a prediction of human development, not evolutionary phenomena...
Comments
This is wrong motivation for Buddhists. You are still trapped in samsara. When time comes that power is useless. It is terrible way to waste human life.
I'm a believer but this kind of statistical manipulation raises questions about the studies to me. For example the odds of flipping a coin and it landing heads up 7 times in a row is 1/128 but if you were to flip a coin 100 times and record all the results the odds of it coming up heads 7 times in row at least once during that time is closer to 1/6. So the "far out" odds aren't quite so dramatic when its included in a larger sample.
I'm not a statistician but I think this kind of thing is rather well known in the field so why would they publish such stats for scientific review when it could easily be refuted?
@Woah93
Ease up dude. Snappish like.
Its a public forum. You are scaring people. And it is not really like that.
/Victor
It might be wrong motivation for Buddhists, but I am not a buddhist. I am a human being who is interested in some if not most of buddha's teachings but who also want's to know what human beings are and their full potential. Not reaching full potential is wasting life IMO.
Am I trapped in samsara? I'm not suffering emotionally or mentally at all, I am quite contend and happy to be where I am and my path resonates with me, that's all I could ever wish for.
I personally don't see the point in limiting my perspective on just buddhism and what it defines as right or wrong, I march to the beat of my own drummer thank you very much. Buddha was only human, and so am I. What makes buddha so vastly superior? I don't agree with the notion that enlightenment is some vague path which is only achieved by the few, or requires lifetimes of mastery or training. I just don't buy that, and I don't buy the notion of any figure or teacher having the final say over anything for that matter.
@Victorious
Well we are all adults here, I'm not holding back on my views to keep people comfortable, besides, fear is not a useful emotion to have if potential for harm is not present in that moment or situation, so I trust a forum dedicated to buddhism to be able to handle it.
There all kinds of people and buddhist or not people are just people. And to most you sound like a loon right now.
Most observant people know about Bush and his skull companions. But it is all inconclusive. Doesn't mean nothing really.
What you forget about the world is that there are rules that nobody can break. Beings are heir to their karma. It is not possible to do anything. Karma does not care if you are a buddhist or not. If I were you I would read up and be careful. What happens in vegas does not stay in vegas in this case. Listen to Meatball.
Its easy to bend but not to break. Buddhism is about observing through direct knowleadge. Do not let your monkey mind run away with you. See what is there and do not speculate so much.
Just some advice from someone who's done some really freaky stuff.
/Victor
Um....ok??
What higher ups in our gov't are obsessed with occult rituals and mind control? What black magic in the Vatican, what child sacrifice?
.
:eek2: .
As requested:
substantiate with serious and official links, or I delete the lot.
Now you are seriously talking utter cluptrop.
I spy with my little eye a conspiracy theorist.
>
All very well, but this isn't a general forum. It's a Buddhist one, and as such, you are a guest here. Therefore it is beholden on you to interact with others in a manner in keeping with the general theme of this forum. It is not up to us to move our goalposts to accommodate you....
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How is subscribing to unsubstantiated, unproven, wild accusations 'reaching full potential'?
You're not educating, you're scaremongering.
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You believe you are not suffering Emotionally or mentally, but your post content indicates otherwise. The inclusion of random ramblings with nothing to back them up, seems to be off-the-wall to us....
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We don't define anything as right or wrong. we define things as skillful or unwholesome, conducive to practice or inhibiting.
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His achievement of Enlightenment. Will people still be talking about you 300 years after your life ends?
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Neither do we. There's absolutely nothing 'vague' about it at all.
What DO you believe about Enlightenment?
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Neither do we.
We're not yes-men or brainless sheep, you know. You have obviously not come across the Kalama Sutta. The Buddha insists that WE have the final word on what we follow or don't follow.
You haven't actually learnt a great deal about Buddhism, have you?
Don't judge my emotional state or suffering on a post on an internet forum. Believe it or not I have little emotional investment in this. I just make my point across without worrying if I look like a "loony" or not. I know it's weird, but it's possible to venture outside the boundaries of common beliefs and the shared idea of what is normal and not loose your mind. Again "off the wall", "random ramblings" and what is even more amusing is the mention about people talking about someone else for 300 years, as if that makes anyone more important other then popular belief and a name slapped on it.
You know people change minds, develop, and change attitudes and outlooks, somehow religious figures would never do that. What was once said and is recorded and regurgitated several amounts is set in stone. Sounds rather imprisoning.
You're right if these comments are reflections of buddhist philosophy I haven't got a clue of what it is about, discussion leading to dead ends, name calling, ignoring content of arguments... pretty much the usual. This made me smile a little, I think buddha would be amused as well. I guess this discussion is mute, funny how you mention enlightenment with a capital like it's some special achievement, name me a conclusive list of enlightened people with data and proof of THAT and convince me it isn't bullshit, how about some proof for that karma?
Keep striving and chasing that endless ideal, like that will create anything but desire... how disempowering. Nonetheless I wish all of you well with your endeavor. I'm not really on the same page as you anymore I guess, I guess I need medication or a long stay at a psych ward right? Good day!
Kia Ora,
Just to [en]lighten things up a little... .
..
There's psychic power and there's psycho power, they are interchangeable, people can go from being psychic to psycho.... (and I should know ....I've been there and done that) . :eek: .. . :eek2: ..
Metta Shoshin .
..
@Woah93
Looking looney, your point won't really come across, will it?
Thinking outside the box is not weird, its pretty commonplace.
Who is talking about who for 300 years? And there are awakened people in the world in case you did not know but I doubt you would recognize them if you saw them.
If you really want to learn then I suggest you get busy cause me for one am not really into convincing rude people of anything.
Nibbana is not endless other than in the sense that the unconstructed is endless but I think some medication would be good in your case. Or just some mindfullness and metta practice.
Cheers
Victor
Kia Ora @Woah93,
I personally found no issues with your posts, I really can't see the point of 'clinging' to what's been said,but that's just me and I'm a little weird in a detached kinda way, plus let us not forget, we're all floating in the same dukkha flavored samsaric soup ...
I'm sorry that you feel unwelcome and I can only wish you all the best...
Metta Shoshin .
..
I’m a skeptic about psychic powers. If they were easy - and just required an open mind and some willpower - they would be all around and verified.
Monks are forbidden to demonstrate their supernatural powers. I think this rule is just too convenient. It allows rumors about their abilities to circle without any facts backing them up.
Another thing is the idea that it takes strong faith for someone to be capable of performing some supernatural action. One really has to believe in it in order to make it happen.
That’s a nice pitfall for you. When the skeptical observer is here, the magic is not; when the magic is here, the skeptical observer is not.
That’s what’s so good about the Randi offer. Win a million dollar. Roll the pen (or whatever) in a controlled environment observed by a few people who will rule out fraud and confirmation bias.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge
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Could you define where and what they are? The Jury is out on what IS normal.
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That is precisely, what we as Buddhists are working on. Changing our minds.
Buddhism is a Mind-orientated practice.
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Who are you referring to?
Only if it isn't true, or doesn't really work. That's the wonderful aspect of Buddhism. it doesn't fetter. It RELEASES.
This is what I mean about you coming onto a Buddhist forum and declaring your ideas with a resounding fanfare, but then taking offence when we tell you it's all just extra tripe to work through, weigh up and consider.
>
Examples please? If you make accusations like that, be sure to be able to BACK - THEM - UP.
First of all, kindly watch your language.
There are no word-blocks in place, because people are expected to know what is acceptable in language, and what isn't. What is written on forum tends to stay. It's a different circumstance to daily speech and interaction, so mind your words.
Secondly, there ARE Enlightened people on this Earth. Just because you haven't met them is no indication they do not exist.
And Again, you obviously have little idea of Kammic process....
>
What you need to understand is that ultimately, we ask ourselves "How conducive is this to my Practice? How valuable is it to me for my progress?"
You have amply demonstrated that it's utterly pointless, futile and of little or no worth.
It's a shame that you take offence when challenged, and expect us to be 'open-minded'. You cannot see just how open-minded we are, because we have considered your input and found it wanting. So now you're taking your ball and have decided to go play with others who won't be so challenging, and will be more ready to accept your 'mess-with-the-head' philosophy? OK. Thanks for coming in.
Cup of tea......
Federica, I'm saying those things not necessarily because I believe all of it to be true (the psychic manipulation), but because a lot of people in power do, since people with power have direct influence on your life if you live in a city, and are engaged I think it's relevant information to have regarding events going on.
Yes I get defensive and yes I throw out most of my anger and frustration when I post, but accepting those emotions and allow them to come out of you beats keeping it inside and allow yourself to be a ticking timebomb. I hope I didn't personally offend anyone, my frustrations were merely general and not really aimed at specific individuals per se.
That being said, now can you give me a clear question on what kind of backing up you refer too? If photographs, video, public record and testimony isn't enough then I'm afraid I can't offer you any, as I came to these conclusions not trying to search for stuff like this, but after researching and being curious for a long time about politics, history, cultures and what not you tend to notice resurfacing patterns and dots start to connect. I can't share that in a post. So please, ask me what you want to see, and I'll do some digging.
Anyway, my apologies for being so fierce, I get a little "passionate" sometimes lol.
.....
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You simply cannot make unsubstantiated yet dustily vague statements like this and expect people to take them seriously.
Such comments border on slanderous, and as such, you either need to substantiate them with something concrete and evidential - or refrain from making them.
I see you are careful to not name or even allude to those 'in power' but this does nothing to validate your comments, nor does it invite us to accept what you say.
Therefore, links to those approaches (photographs, videos, public records and testimonies) from official certifiable links, not from someone's secretly-hidden dodgy obscure-image mobile phone, will do nicely.
Nice to see you are still with us, and I'm glad you are, but please know my comments still stand: You are a guest here (albeit a most welcome one) but you have to understand, this is a Buddhist forum. we evaluate Mind and its machinations in a different way to you.
Rather than imply we're stagnating and refusing to 'see things clearly' (in a nutshell, not to quote you) examine the rudiments and details of Buddhism and what it entails, and why we consider things as we do....
remember; as the only religion on the planet without a fixed deity or godhead, we are bound to do things a little differently!
OK?
.
What people in power, who? What mind-control?
@Dakini, I have already asked for clarification and substantiated and verifiable links, and am now awaiting for production of same....
I'm glad I'm not the only one asking though.
So, you see, @Woah93, sensational statements are unacceptable, with no underpinning data to back them up....
Your right I'm careful lol, but i'll just post some well known bits to show that there are obvious occult rituals performed by people in power.
To show that it was even mainstream a while ago, before media was sold out and owned by just a few, it is not just conspiracy theory's.
Here is actual footage of what happens there:
Here is David Gergen confronted about the event.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gergen
Wiki says: David Richmond Gergen (born May 9, 1942) is an American political commentator and former presidential advisor who served during the administrations of Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, and Bill Clinton.[1] Not a small player by all means, also from wiki:
He is currently a Senior Political Analyst for CNN[2] and a Professor of Public Service and Director of the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School. Gergen is also the former Editor-at-Large of U.S. News and World Report[3] and contributor to CNN.com and Parade Magazine. He has twice been a member of election coverage teams that won Peabody awards—in 1988 with MacNeil-Lehrer, and in 2008 with CNN.
So, the influence at CNN by persons of this nature is definitely reason for concern about what you are being told.
Some more data and lists of members, backed by pictures taken:
http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/52/80/69548052/documents/TheBohemianGrove.pdf
Are you serious? This is the most public 'private' club in the western world. It has its own Wikipedia page, and a large number of members are journalists.
You expect all of them to be in on something sinister?
And who the hell is 'Timothy'?
That is one hell of a funny document. Plenty of assumptions and theories, but honestly?
It's badly written, it has facts thrown together as if they all have some deep, alternative mysterious hidden meaning, and it jumps from subject to subject with little or no continuity.... And some of the facts are well... so what?
Laughable. Totally ridiculous, and i hte to say it, not all that intelligent.
The connections he makes about the owl, its symbolism and how depraved it all is, is just a wild ranting. It is, really, it is....
I'm sorry, but if this is all you're going on, I cannot take such tripe seriously.
Don't you have anything contemporary? The video is dated early 80's....
Or rule out any possibility > @Woah93 said:
So if this was to be taken seriously as a display of people in power performing occult rituals. What does it prove or show would you say?
/Victor
@federica you wanted me to show some involved in rituals and symbolism, this is the most well known piece, because yes, it's old but it was revealed in a time with less censorship hence the official pages. Those in the group aren't real "journalists", journalists tell what is happening, they don't do that. This isn't a private group at all, this WAS a private group which became exposed, and those cases provide the clearest pictures of groups who are now currently hidden. I'm not claming to have knowledge of all these groups and what they are and who they are, but I do know that a substantial ammount of people which are oddly enough all in places like education systems, religious institutions, politicians and bigwig bankers can be traced back to secret society's like these. Why is it so secret? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group is holding these converences which are entirely in secret and is not allowed to be filmed, talked about or otherwise exposed in the public realm. Notice that ALL positions of power including media, corporations and presidents attend these meetings. But isn't it a scandal that global matters which affect everyone are discussed in SECRET?
Considering this club is attended by rockefeller which is one of the most powerful individuals of the world who can basically print money and owns the federal reserve it seems to me like all this "centralization" going on is done with a strategy in mind.
Zeitgeist offers a pretty reasonable explanation of it, but isn't debatable information, this is accepted FACT, even kennedy blatantly spoke out during his famous speech before he was shot.
Owning more money then 98% of the other persons in your nation is huge power. Doesn't it concern you that Rockefeller controls influence of education through funding, healthcare through funding, food through monsanto starting with the green revolution, and your money? Doesn't it concern you that those things are controlled and influenced by an amount of people that could fit in one house?
@Victorious That it is wise to take these matters of occult beliefs seriously, if you are affected by people who practice such beliefs. I'm not implying believing it yourself, but isn't it rather foolish to make decisions regarding finance, politics, education and media when you aren't aware of the mindset and reasoning of people who own it? Walking around blind can lead you into places you might not wanna go.
Skillful or not, you can talk about it all you want after your a debt slave, but then it will be too late. The sad fact is that the economy is designed to suck out all resources to the banks. With recourses I mean houses, land, property etc. Not digital numbers or green printed papers which is has dropped to 0,2% of value since the federal reserve was created. It's funny that the reason for that was to maintain dollar VALUE. Don't you see a huge fraud and actual intention to these scenarios? How much do you need to be convinced?
Edit: Let me make mention as well that no I do not believe in "evil" men working to make us suffer. I do however believe that those do this for the need to control and really believe that because they know best, for our OWN good they will guide us. I don't think it's unlikely that given extremely influential and high positions of power these mentality's can infect a lot of genuine people.
No. I wanted literal, contemporary, written evidential proof on what you claim is psychic mind control by certain people in power. I want proof of the rituals you say go on within the Catholic church.
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I want proof of the line below:
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And by the way - I am British. Frankly, all this scare-mongering and over-inflated theory matters not a jot to me.
Every single Government in the world is up to something shady at one point or another. Of course they are. Things they either don't want the public to know, or believe would be damaging for the public to know. Whichever it is, it happens.
Everywhere.
And frankly, I'm neither surprised, nor do I expect to be able to know everything, or demand that right.
National secrecy may cover a multitude of sins, but while some secrets may be outrageous, some secrets are necessary. National security and all that.
I'm sure if we were to all know exactly everything our governments get up to, our heads would explode.
So, really, unless you can provide something more definitive than a full page cartoon claiming this that and the other, and give documented evidence on the clear statements you have made, above, I shall shut the door on this once and for all.
Rockefeller has been mentioned. Next come the Illuminati and Majestic 12. Where's my popcorn? This is great stuff for video games (e.g. "Deus Ex"), and for movies, but it really does sound like the political version of what the UFO enthusiasts do. They have plenty of stuff they bring up when they're talking about government cover-ups and how the aliens are influencing us, even living among us (or maybe lizard people influencing government from underground). It's an extreme case of confirmation bias, picking little bits here and there that support the theories and ignoring literally everything else (or calling contrary evidence a purposeful distortion to lead us astray from "the truth").
This is the aspect of sensationalism that annoys me. Taking 2 + 2 and making 47. Taking ordinary, run-of-the-mill data and stating that it's a means of control and manipulation.
Has it ever occurred to whomever compiled the junk-data above that perhaps it's the media responding to public demand?
The information about "Mrs Robinson" doesn't surprise me. Nostalgia is big business. Retro things are worth a small fortune. Radio broadcasts older material because it's popular. The grown-up generation of 'Middle-agers' is the most influential social strata, and as such, they hark back to those days. When Music was melodic, rhythmic and easy to listen to, lyrics were decipherable and musicians actually played real-live instruments.
Taking information like that and claiming it's all one great big ploy to control people's thinking.
tell you what: Turn it off. Dispense with radio, TV and papers.
Sorted. How hard is that?
I watch TV maybe once a week, and even then, only for around an hour or so.
Nature Documentaries, comedy programmes, the odd really good serial.
I do not read papers. Waste of time and money.
I listen to BBC Radio 2.
I have musical preferences, and I also operate the on/off switch with remarkable ease.
Guys,
Please send me your mind. I will wash it. Then consider yourself brain washed and open to the possibility that no one with an empty mind is controllable by occultists, secret manipulators or cushions with agendas . . .
Hope that helps . . . before 'they' get me . . .
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I bring in the popcorn, @Aldris, but I warn you I might doze off anytime. Seen this film before...
@Woah93 talked about psychedelic mushrooms consumption on another thread, so my hunch here (talk about psychic powers, boy!) is much of those comments (including the ball pen incident) are related to that habit...
Now I see why Woah asks on another thread about concentration or relaxation techniques... I mean, is there a way to hush all that mind chatter?
Of course but I hope you realise that that footage does not in any way assert supernormal means of manipulation to them?
What buddhist cultivation does is that it makes you better able not be affected by manipulation. To see outside the box and stay on your own course.
Eer I am a debt slave as it is and am totally aware of the implications. It is something I have chosen to become.
Buddhism does not condone it but there are no tabus in buddhism as you are probably aware. The question is always what the alternative is. For me the alternative would have been less fortunate than what I have. And I wonder since you are so aware of this fraud. What are you doing about it. And how has this knowledge changed your life?
Again how has this belief benefited you? what changes have you made to your life on account of this belief?
Please do give me some hint and pointers to what should be done to regulate my life better?
/Victor
Off Topic warning:
Yepp and just see how the latest scandal is evolving still in the wake of Edvard Snowden.
Now there are claims from former NSA employees that 80% of all actual conversations on US phones are being recorded!
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/11/the-ultimate-goal-of-the-nsa-is-total-population-control
But is this right or wrong?
Bahnhof that is a ISP in sweden reported that the swedish SÄPO is pressuring them for directlines into their datalines. Other ISP:s has confirmed this.
Links in swedish but it is the official swedish national (government) radio reporting this.
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=1650&artikel=5735355
Tell you the truth I am a bit divided. I do not like it but on the other hand I do not really mind them listening in on my conversations... By all means please do.
None of this requires any supernormal powers though.
leaving DMZ.
/Victor
Speaking about Powers. One reason I am pretty sure that Sherlock Holmes is buddhist is because he always sees what is there, nothing else. :thumbsup: .
For me I will believe in anything, mystical powerish etc, that I can do myself. The rest is only probabilities.
But on the other hand I have been able to learn to do so much that I previously thought was just impossible or even ludicrous that I have a really open mind nowadays.
Still. Only truly believe in what you can do on your own is a good rule of thumb.
/Victor
Alrighty then.
The only power I'd bother with is the power to make everybody a telepath and have it so we can fine tune it to block out unwanted frequencies (or whatever).
Enough of the bullspit, dig what I'm saying?
After reading that again, I suppose I should clarify. It could sound as if I'm claiming these abilities are fake but I take no stance on that.
I just think it would do wonders if deceit was impossible.
Reading minds mi compadre is an ability everybody has, or as it is phrased in the old texts, to understand/see the heart of others.
In fact it is often an invaluable tool in any human to human interaction. It is sought for by employers in their future employees and people lacking it are classified as abnormal in society.
In fact people with high skills in this are often elevated in society and given high salaries and much responsibility over others.
In fact humans and I think some species of monkeys/apes have hardwired neourons that enable us to do this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron
Didn't think of that did ya?
/Victor
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This is why ridicule should be used as wisely as admiration.
The things you admire and respect will be the things that you unconsciously mirror and aim at and that which ridicule and laugh at will be the last thing your mind will be able to encompass.
IF anybody feels I am pointing fingers at them. I probably am. :nyah: .
According to the Visuddhi Magga there are a number of ways to "get" the 10 enumerated "powers" in the Dhamma.
Being born with them. Like a bird can fly and primates read each others hearts.
Through Kasina/jhana cultivation. Or ....
Through Science. Ta daa!!! Yepp thats right folks, Says right there in this book from 430 CE. Through science you can fly or, the book continues to enumerate, make pictures appear in midair etc. (We haven't got there yet but does anybody really doubt it now?)
Makes you wonder how they got that right? Makes you wonder if somebody made the effort and learned how to glimpse future existences maybe? And then it strikes you. Is that possible using science?
Wanna know more?
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/Victor
Sorry, what do you mean, 'we haven't got there yet'...?
Of course we have got there already -
Aeroplanes fly, television comes from 'mid-air'. And what about holographic images?
Haha as accepted a jab at me because of my other threads or comments, I knew psychedelic mushrooms would be mentioned.
Just shows though an offensive attempt that is lacking of any substance, other than the apparent motive to again, ridicule or somehow offend me. None taken @DharmaMom don't loose sleep over it ok? 
Anyway sorry I guess we will have to disagree on the occult rituals, as for my own reasons I will not post more about it then I already have on the matter.
@Victor
Snowden is a disinformation agent... They tell you a little bit of truth then go off the ball and lead people to nowhere or make the part of truth in that story ridiculous by adding insane ideas to it. Come on, checking on phones or emails? I don't even read my emails! I don't care about that haha, I do care about NSA having owned computers of current levels 30 years ago and I can't even begin to imagine what they might have now. Snowden decides he exposes people listening to phone convo's? Lol.
David Icke has solid idea's and he sells out all over the world with 9 hour speeches and strikes me as a remarkably intelligent person, but suddenly he started talking about the queen of england being actually a shapeshifting lizard in disguise, and the moon being a constructed alien base for mind control. They gain an entire following by sharing valid facts and knowledge and then disempower it by shitting all over it with ridiculous idea's.
Same with Alex Jones which is one of those "conspiracy loons" but at the same time has a CIA agent employed. These guys are massively known and unlike other exposers such as Michael Jackson, Bob Marley, Kennedy, Bill Cooper etc there were not even attempt of assassinations on them.
What am I doing about it?
1: I'm telling people, obvious, this thread made a difference even if one person saw it and actually began researching it himself.
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2: I have quit contributing to this fraud. I don't have a mortgage, I don't take up loans, I don't buy anything I don't agree with. I withdraw support from things that don't resonate with me, I have convinced many not to join the militairy. And I'm striving to become self sufficient with solar energy, planting my own food, and a steady supply of water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthship A lot of people do it.
Other changes this knowledge has brought to my life is no more TV, I spend my time much wiser now, meditating, relaxing outside, generally enjoying REAL things instead of hypnotic entertainment in a box.
Perhaps the biggest change which changed my consciousness was food.
No more aspartame, no more fluoride from tap water or toothpaste, no more buckets of sugar, and I can say that physically and mentally I am a new person. Mental ability vastly increased, my diagnosed "ADD" disappeared and I no longer suffer from depression.
I also gained this ability of mind power which has done great things for me.
These things happening don't make me scared or sad, they empower me actually. A crappy society where everything is random and just jumbled up chaos filled with suffering, wars, poverty and cruelty is way more scary then the way things are to me. The way things actually are, suggests that there is hope for humans to rise above this, and rise to a better state of awareness.
Even IF these things were ALL false, they would STILL create major positive changes in the system and it is doing that right now at a speed which is mind blowing and it's increasing by the day. Less greed, more free thinkers, people will stop fighting for other people in the army, people will have more compassion for one another and live a live based on actual morals and values, instead of money, status and social acceptance.
That is what my goal is, take an active part in this process of tiny tweaks which will hopefully create something positive, I'm just hoping to create a ripple effect in my environment, no matter how ridiculous I may seem to some.
Anyway I get our opinions differ but I hope we share the same view in that unity and compassion/empathy is a good thing to be striving towards, so I hope this argument didn't offend anyone as I really didn't intend to, I lost my temper, and it was uncalled for, anyhow namaste
Bravo @Woah93
Your conspiracies I don't buy. Your good health and simplified lifestyle is a working plan. Congratulations :wave: .
Haha lobster we don't have to agree on everything to share the same ideals or values, I don't think anyone of us wants more suffering in the world, so it is a good thing that many people spend time on different things, if everyone was into buddhism we would be lacking in science, if nobody researched conspiracy, history would have quite a few gaps and leaders could get away with everything they wanted, so I guess it's a working balance, and if a path contributes to general improvement in your life all the better, buddhism improves my life, knowledge does too, questioning everything does as well, so I do that and it works for me
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” -Buddha
Back on topic:
My thought on psychic powers are that if we communicate through radio, EMF waves and electricity with our current technology which travels through the ether, it is not unlikely that, given the activity of our brains which holds electrical activity and waves measurable by equipment, the influence of your environment can be possible with mind. Electricity is not bound to wiring as it creates induction and can skip certain distances to pass on to the next wire, and that happens frequently.
Waveforms hold vast amounts of information in the universe, light, sound, heat, and, brainstates also can be measured in waves, and "electronic" activity in the brain, which tells us at the very least that the brain DOES share some resemblance to the communication devices we have now
How do you move your hand? You "will" it to move and the "energy" akin to electricity travels through the nerve system and does it. If that same "energy" capable of thought or emotional "colour" can somehow be proven able to skip distances then that would be THE confirmation of existance of these powers I think.
Anyhow when we look at personal experience don't we all have these powers? Haven't we "felt" it when a pissed off person walked into the room? Or came in contact with individuals which radiate strength and confidence? In the perspective of magnetic fields, induction or "aura" of persons, these gut feelings seem to suddenly make extreme sense.
Given that we still can't define electricity, we do know that electricity can cross distances over wires through sparks, electricity can also create influence through induction, so the same may hold true for mind activity, depending on strength of said activity.
I guess I will stop here, I think we will just have to again, agree to disagree, you're right as in that I'm a guest here so I will refrain from heated arguments any further
@Whoa93, Pema Chodron talked about how we get hooked on beliefs. I think the idea of conspiracy comes from paranoia. You get sucked in by the vibe I guess because it somehow resonates with your personality or somehow meets a need you have.
I liked in one of your statements related to how you feel:
I believe we all experience that. That is the big question. How do you express what turmoil you are have going on in your head. You are right that it hurts when you are not finding the acknowledgement of your beliefs or I guess you could understand it as being a square peg in a round hole.
I feel like this a lot. What I am trying to express is that you get off kilter. That is one translators word for 'dukkha'. I'm a little confused about what helps. It is daunting to try to 'improve' because, like you say, you have a lot of anger. You have to express yourself I feel because otherwise you get bottled up. That feels horrible. If you can manage it go to therapy. There are a lot of other teachings in Buddhism that support calming down from anger and letting go of basic misunderstandings in thinking.
It will take time, effort, compassion, honesty, and yes humor.
Yeah I think we all experience this. However, I can look back at the time I spent just meditating and not any of the "conspiracy" I spend time looking into now and I experienced the same kind of anger, paranoia indicates a certain fear or distrust.
I don't distrust people for no obvious reasons and give benefit of the doubt all the time, I research these things because I am very curious about most things, especially about important things like nutrition, information, culture and many more regarding human endeavors in this world.
The anger... it just has to come out sometimes, however, the way in which it comes out and the frequency in which I do could be vastly improved I agree, however I feel very much at peace and "in harmony" with my life generally.
I have a very busy mind at times of course, but it isn't "monkey mind" as in out of control and causing suffering. Meditation has become key in grounding and keeping control of my mind.
Perhaps control is the wrong word, but you know what I mean, control of response to the mind...
I don't agree with therapy, I don't need anyone to tell me what to do or what's right to think or wrong to think, again, I prefer to beat to the march of my own drummer. Could that be a long and tedious path? Probably. Will it take longer than therapy? Most likely. But I prefer seeing all sides of the battle for myself, and I truly believe experiencing the "bad" in it's fullest, has the potential to soften you to make room for compassion, honesty and humor more so then therapy could ever do for me.
@Victor, I like what you said, but I think some people can be oblivious to the gifts that they have. My teacher talked about the Buddha energies: vajra (wanting to know), Ratna (wanting it all), padma (wanting to feel), karma (wanting to do), and Buddha (wanting to be)..
So I believe that there is already enough vajra energy in the universe. It's not neccessary to possess a lot of vajra in your conscious mind. The true development is compassion and wisdom, and they are fused. Wisdom is the wisdom of letting go. The mind is always luminous including all ages and mentally ill and developmentally handicapped. Wisdom is always related to compassion or it is just and there is some message from the heart. This is how I was thinking when my Lama answered an email about being psychotic from too much pressure. She said that what we do is put ourselves in a position to understand emptiness but we don't want to spin out into paranoia and we should make adjustments to feel integrated?
Well lets leave some room for interpretation. If anybody would read the text and care to comment maybe?
The translated wording is
From
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
An elephant in space? Jumbo jet, maybe? Not kidding, either...
@Woah93
Well I actually think it is great the life choices you have made. I lack a TV too but we do watch media on the computer so that is mute. We try to eat organic as much as possible and avoid sugar etc. Even grow some of our own food. But is this not pretty much how people are trying to live today at large?
This kind of living is gaining. Next step is to get a windmill for electricity. I believe that is more economic up here...
I do not know what to believe about you. Some things make sense but then you say things that has no basis in reality what so ever. The claims you make make no sense at all. Maybe you are leaving half the picture out?
Leaving other things aside lets focus on Snowden. On what basis do you consider him a dis informant? Who is he dis informing and on who's behalf? Whats his agenda?
What grounds do you have for that?
Tell you what. Lets continue this in PM? PM me the answer please? So we do not derail the thread.
Thanks
/Victor
Do you have any more material on this please? I would like to delve...
And ...
Normally I am not much for teachers but I really wish I had heard this 15 years ago...This is what I am learning NOW. Sigh.
Thanks.
I think the meaning is a picture of an elephant. That is how my teacher explained it (attributed to the word show). We are left to interpretation. As always.
He knew 30 languages or so. I was 17 or so at the time. I didnt argue.
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/Victor
Bit of a ruddy coincidence though, wouldn't you say?
I mean, many people put great store in Nostradamus' predictions which were often couched in flowery, vague terms, yet bringing them into the 20th century and using modern terminology which strangely, when overlaid on top of his predictions, made sense...
Simply because a picture of an elephant was used, doesn't mean that it had to be taken literally.... it was a prediction of human development, not evolutionary phenomena...
Is my take on it....
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