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A secular Buddhist organization on the web
vinlyn
Colorado...for now Veteran
Comments
I had a membership there before I signed up here. I dunno, I like the spirit and energy of this forum, not that you asked about comparisons. The members are quite thoughtful and scholarly, and follow Stephen Batchelor and John Peacock, both of whom have some excellent teachings. I pop over there once a week or so.
Cool, I liked some of their introductory materials.
Kia Ora @vinlyn,
Thanks for the link, I found the clip on superstition of interest, where they discussed the experiment regarding the "placebo effect" and poster (a "Stan Pengelly") posted the following :
Doug & Mufi:
thank you for answering my question. What caused me to ask it was the section in the Superstition presentation which detailed the study where a group of IBS students were given pills which they were told had no active ingredients. The experimenter even labeled the pill bottle PLACEBO and yet placebo-like positive effects were noted among the test subjects. I wonder if someone produced and sold a “meditation pill” whether the number of people who reported positive effects would just about equal the number of people who actually did meditation, the old fashioned way. If, in turn, people were told the meditation pill was simply a placebo, whether these people would continue to report positive effects.
I know my reasoning is a little convoluted, but I’ll boil it down to this: the Superstition video makes me think the human mind can be quite “mushy”. If a group of people can report positive effects even when they know they are being given a placebo, then maybe meditation could also be a placebo too. It works because people think it works or want it to. Not because it does
It just so happens I've got a dozen or so bottles of meditation pills (fell off the back of a truck) I'm selling off cheap .
..
No seriously, it does sound quite interesting this "mind over matter" or "mind over mind" placebo thing...I'm sure some susceptible people would/could benefit from taking a meditation pill....
Metta Shoshin .
..
Heathens!!!!!!!
I try.
Kia Ora Bunk,
Metta Shoshin .
..
I'll give it a shot. They might leave out things I wouldn't leave out, but I've read a few Stephen Batchelor books and they were alright, and I can see myself mingling just as well on that forum as on this one. Maybe there I would be even more at home, since my inherent skepticism is often met with something less than acceptance. I'd still visit both forums, naturally. NewBuddhist is pretty damn awesome.
Just waiting on my administrator approval now. Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock.
They must've had a lot of spam signups or something to have email verification and administrator approval. I can't see them setting it up like that from the start, having to go through manually and approve every account that has already made it through the email verification stage. Haven't they ever heard of Captcha?
Aaaaand... I'm in! That only took a few hours.
Thanks, will have a look. Will they try to convert me though?
You might need to be deprogrammed first.
I'm really a closet secularist anyway...
Anyway I'm now a fully integrated member of their discussion forum and giving lots of handy hints..
There's a member over there who openly admits he's 'awakened', his username is Will. If any 'yall go over there, I used my 'real' name Kim as my username. I hadn't come up with Hamsaka yet when I signed up.
If I get time today I'm going to ask Will a few questions or just read more of what he has to say. The moderator Linda respectfully took another member to task for giving Will a hard time, which I respect.
It's an interesting forum, as I've started reading the posts. They write more seriously there, less relaxed as we are here.
I prefer it here... when discussions get anal, I just ....yech.... people get so (inadvertently) 'up' themselves.... it happens elsewhere too though.
@federica I haven't run across any anal discussions yet. There are probably forums where that kinda stuff is appropriate, but I don't think we should have those here, especially if there's going to be picture-posting. I'm not against anal, of course, it's just strange that it would be on a Buddhist forum.
I don't think that's inadvertent, I think it's quite on purpose. Not like "oops I backed right up into that completely by accident!".
There seem to be some very serious people over there.
I think federica means anally retentive, not anal sex.
correct. I am the first to confess that I cannot quote sutta, reference, text and passages at will. I have to go looking, and sometimes, I find, and other times I'm found wanting.
Things I object to are posters who cut and paste reams and reams of suttas (with added links and references) and omit any significant additional input of their own; it's like they believe all that is necessary for them to produce, is a long piece of prose, for them to sound knowledgeable and devout.... if it's in a sutta, that's all that's necessary. "it is written". And if it's good enough for them, it should be more than adequate for anyone else.
Either that, or it's sanctimonious and patronising put-downs. I've been at the sharp end of a few, and frankly, all it does is make me think the person is just one big ignorant tosser.
Sorry, but I can't be doing with holier-than-thou attitudes.
(However, I think @AldrisTorvalds knew that...!
. )
I'm just a cheeky little monkey, I am.
I have long been interested in secular Buddhism, but hardly have enough time to read and comment here on this site, let alone engage in another forum.
There sure is! The information and discussion are excellent over there, but over here, there is greater . . . range of expression, on average.
I'm sure one could rip off a very hilarious post over there and there would be some very respectful and erudite ha has. You know, there may be a sense of being a 'minority' in being secular, in the true sense of the word 'minority'.
Note the complete (apparent) lack of humor in some areas of life. Those areas are tender and perhaps just newly emerging into the conscious cultural awareness -- like the acceptance of same sex marriage and transgendered folks.
Skeeterb's thread about being witch hunted for making a racist remark (NEVER joke) is another example.
You, of yourself, could be truly as unreligionist/unracist/unsexist/unhomophobicist/whatever and make a joke about why the Jews spent 40 years wandering the desert in search of a dropped quarter will get you fired from your job, sometimes without further ado
. That is an effing funny joke but you'd think the joke-r was firing up the pogroms against Jews. Every group has SOMETHING that sticks out as uniquely 'them' (or many things) and it is like a minefield for me to pretend something is not funny because a massive leap is made between making fun of Jews and money and firing up the gas ovens. Just try and explain THAT to your average HR representative. Eh, better to not laugh or make jokes in the first place.
In a place that has a conspicuous lack of 'humor' I have to wonder.
Ditto.
Plus....this is the only place you'll find Vastmind .... :vimp: .... Something to be said for exclusivity, hahaha
@Hamsaka said .. " but over here, there is greater . . . range of expression, "
True. Good way to put it.
I was going to ask if after all this one of you gave us a shameless plug over there to return the favor.......but if they are that serious....well...let's leave well enough alone....hahaha
The one thing a little off-putting about that forum so far is you have to pick a sub forum and go into that. It doesn't have a "main" page of threads from all sub-forums like this one. It's minor but jarring, after being here. Me no wanna hop from section to section, waaaah!
Yes it is more complicated to use, and also more formal. But, seems like more good people.
It reminds me of another forum, DhammaWheel, except secular.
I never went on DhammaWheel very much. Should I?
@vinlyn I can't say should or should not. It's more strict and less fun than here, it's Theravada based, and that's about the extent I know.
I may give it a whirl someday out of curiosity.
I've been in DhammaWheel and it's pretty serious stuff.
Other than people copy-pasting entire pages of suttas, the level of discussion reminds me of college philosophy classes.
And there's not much room for jokes or chilling in the Dhamma over there.
My personal impression.
It has actually been pointed out to me there that humour is against the Buddha's teachings, and was given Sutta references to indicate that laughter and comedy were unskilful pastimes, and should be abandoned as careless processes.
.
Never.
Sorry, Buddha, but there, you're on your own.
A lot of the contributors at Dhamma Wheel are fairly secular in approach.
We are funny sometimes...OK, well, admittedly not that often.;)
Oh sure, I meant the forum isn't itself secular.
I'm still trying to work out what secular Buddhism involves. I assume that basically it means rejecting the religious content of Buddhism?
@SpinyNorman I don't think there's a simple answer, but the forum does provide answers: http://secularbuddhism.org/new-to-secular-buddhism/
Yes, that can be frustrating - just dumping large quotes in without explaining the relevance or how it supports a particular point of view.
On the other hand it's good sometimes to have some scriptural support for points of view, rather than just a lot of personal opinions flying around.
Actually I find there is a good balance over at Dhamma Wheel, people are usually well-disciplined and succinct when referring to suttas.
Yes, I had a look but it all seems rather vague. I have the sense that secular Buddhists don't like to be pinned down.;)
On reflection I don't think I class as a secular Buddhist. The "religious" content of the suttas isn't really relevant to my daily practice these days, and I'm content to set it aside. But I don't feel a need to reject it or explain it away, and I sense that's what many secular Buddhists need to do.
Well, Just on a whim, I registered for membership 3 days ago. Still haven't been 'approved' by an administrator, and have heard nothing (probably very wise of them!!
. ) and there doesn't seem to be any way of contacting them to find out what the hold up is. I left a message on their FB page, but frankly, if this is how they run the site, it will gradually peter out to nothing, without proper administration...
@federica You verified your email too right? They have a weird super-strict process for signing up that involves both email verification and admin approval.
Yup, I went through the whole process.... as far as I know.... I followed all the prompts, anyway, and ended with a link to my email, which I clicked on, which opened a screen telling me that my registration would be complete once it was approved by an Administrator (?)....
@federica Yeah that's what I went through. If I recall, it was only a few hours before my registration was approved... but I can't say that's typical because I don't know!
Yes, I found it all very confusing, I wasn't clear what to do first or which password was for what. Maybe it's some sort of IQ test?
So what are your impressions of secular Buddhism - is it what you expected?
Didn't we have to go through an email check and admin pass to get to post here too?
It took me a while to find this place so I doubt I will trade it in just yet. Already have facebook, email and a few other places I like to go such as miniclip pool. Best online pool game ever, btw. Seems to be a lot of glitches but it's the most realistic pool game I've seen and you get to play folks all over the globe.
I have a fairly secular approach but couldn't rightly identify as a secular Buddhist. I don't think i'll sign up but since I have tonsilitis and am stuck here for the day, I'll go check it out.
Yes, but I believe we get close to between 10 - 30 applicants per day (I could be off with that estimate, it's only something I saw in the past....) and a few obvious spammers, spam-bots and time-wasters into the bargain...@Linc does a very good job at keeping them in check, all things considered...
Same here, but it's not a very active board.
My early impressions:
Not a very active forum.
They take themselves very seriously.
I think some members are less secular (and more "religious") than they think they are.
Not particularly welcoming.
I think they've only been around for about 2 years.
I find the forum mechanics less friendly than here.
Since they focus more or less on one "school" of Buddhism, they are less "all over the board" than we are here (which is often a benefit to discussions).
What about you?
I agree with @vinlyn, and haven't found myself to be very active over there at all... it just doesn't feel as homey.
Yes, so far I don't feel comfortable over there.
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Based on the responses above, I think all in all I may give it a miss. I have already experienced less jocular forums and quite frankly, I'm not into forcing myself to be sombre, serious, and anally focused.... I know, as a Moderator I can't please everyone all the time, but I'd like to think that as far as we're concerned here, it's not an alien concept to let our hair down and have a giggle, now and then, which I think is more user-friendly and welcoming, myself...