Negative Buddhist practices?
ericcris10sen
Veteran
So my mom is dealing with this one lady she works with who is unbelievably rude to her. The thing is, she claims to be Buddhist and they practice horrible thoughts. They wish harm to others and other things that seem to be against what Buddhism is about! Has anyone heard of this kind of Buddhism? Sounds so friggen horrible that they wish negative things happen to others!
So apparently today she comes up to my mom and my moms friend at lunch and says "Hi, you're fat" and walks away. Okay, yes, my mom isn't super fit and skinny. She had back surgery and has other medical problems but she hikes about 9 miles a week on her days off and imo, I don't think she's fat. I love my mom and it makes me very angry that someone that claims to be Buddhist goes around saying horrible things like that to someone.
I'm not perfect. Sometimes I stray from Buddhism and don't meditate or think nice things, but I would NEVER EVER EVER say something like that to someone I don't know. I can't imagine why someone would say something like that or follow teachings such as that kind. But I guess every religion or teaching has their radicals....
Comments
So, is there something you'd like to know, or ....do you want to do something about it....?
The thing is, she claims to be Buddhist and they practice horrible thoughts. They wish harm to others and other things that seem to be against what Buddhism is about! Has anyone heard of this kind of Buddhism? Sounds so friggen horrible that they wish negative things happen to others!
No, that doesn't sound anything like Buddhism. Anyone can call themselves a Buddhist, but that doesn't mean they really are.
Haha yea I was wondering if anyone has heard of a practice whose primary focus is wishing negative things towards others. Or if anyone has MET someone who does that.
@SpinyNorman well that's true. Anyone can call themselves anything and that doesn't mean that they are. But apparently there IS a practice out there that does that. I am going to have to ask my mom what form of Buddhism she said she practices.
If you know anything about Buddhism, you already know the answer.
I'll give you a hint just in case: NO
@ericcris10sen If someone acts like that and is calling themselves a Buddhist, they're not a very good one if they are. You're right that these things are contradictory to Buddhist teaching.
The trouble with asking strangers on a forum about a situation you are repeating second hand (that is, through your Mum) is much of the subtle dynamics of what is really going on is going to be lost.
I'm sure your Mum is the best person in the world in your eyes, but who knows what is going on between her and this other woman. It's unusual for someone to be so bluntly rude without a context of some sort. It seems odd to me that she would bluntly insult your Mum one minute then confide her religious beliefs the next.
At the risk of repeating myself: NO, there is no school of Buddhism which deserves to be called Buddhism that has a practice consisting of wishing negative things to another sentient being.
It's a case of human failure here, not doctrine failure.
This isn't Buddhism of any kind. This lady is following the ancient tradition of following her delusions.
Since this lady seems intent on causing harm, it could be that she picked up that you were into Buddhism and she is simply calling herself a Buddhist as a way to further harm your mother by calling her a Buddhist. Just a possibility that occurred to me because obviously that kind of behavior is the opposite of Buddhism.
@ericcris10sen, a couple of thoughts.
First, regarding the "Hi, you're fat" comment. By any chance, is the woman Thai? The reason I ask is that Thais often make statements that are true, but that would make us Westerners feel uncomfortable. They were just stating a fact, not making a judgement. There were a number of times strangers in Thailand would say the same thing to me and even pat my belly, and then have a very pleasant conversation with me. At the time I wondered if it was almost like practicing their English. It was not at all rare for a Thai to ask, "How much money do you earn?" or "How much did that shirt cost?" It just seemed to be non-filtered thought, almost stream of consciousness type of thinking.
Second, I'm not keen on the comment in the thread, "Anyone can call themselves a Buddhist, but that doesn't mean they really are." It isn't that the statement is wrong, it's that it's so judgmental. It's really saying, "If they don't see Buddhism as I do, then they're not really Buddhist". (Sorry, SpinyNorman). In fact, in a conversation with a monk in Bangkok when I brought up what to say about someone with a different religion (which isn't that much different than a different version of the same religion), he said "Well, a real Buddhist wouldn't make a judgement about that" (which almost seemed like breaking the rule of what he just said).
Third, each culture has their own idiosyncrasies. Thailand is sometimes referred to as the most Buddhist country in the world, because 95% of Thais are professed Buddhists. And so, I find the Thais to have their own behaviors that are very different than behaviors you see here in the States. But they aren't necessarily better cultural behaviors. Thais seem to me to be far more polite and more friendly acting than Westerners. But bribery is also part of Thai life, scams are so much more common there, pickpocketing can be rife, etc. If you are robbed, you're far more unlikely to be physically hurt or murdered (but there are exceptions). My point? Whether people are Christians or Buddhist or Hindu or _____, they're still just human and they behave as humans always do...just with different idiosyncrasies. All of what people do on a daily basis is not filtered through their religion. Not everybody on this forum is a "good" Buddhist...a walking saint. I've yet to see anyone "here" walk on water (mixed metaphor).
Just my take on a few things.
I think that's a pretty reasonable statement. Everyone who professes to be a Buddhist is not at the same place on the path. In fact, since there are so many forms of Buddhism, they're not all on the same path.
@Vinlyn No I don't think she's Thai. I think she's Caucasian. This isn't the first time that lady was rude to other people. And not as in being oblivious to what she's saying, but to just be outright mean.
@DhammaDragon I will ask her again what kind of Buddhism she apparently is practicing. As I stated before, I'm sure EVERY religion has their group that practice radical ideas. I don't think because Buddhism is supposed to be about peace and enlightenment, that it's not prone to people who have different views of how it should be taught, no matter the kind of teachings.
@poptart I understand where you're coming from, and if you were to know my mom, you'd find it quite hilarious to think she's anyway aggressive towards others especially when it comes to being at work.
@ericcris10sen There's no form of Buddhism I've ever heard about that could be radicalized to being about harming people. Unlike other religions, Buddhism doesn't have any teachings about committing violence, only about not committing them.
A radical Buddhist is the one sitting alone in a cave for 7 years!
She sounds like she's mixed in a heavy dose of Black Wicca or Shamanism, both of which do occasionally have some rather sinister practices, although the majority of exponents of both Wicca and Shamanism would definitely baulk at such practises, and denounce them as counter-productive, negative and damaging.
If you really wanted to scare the living daylights out of her, you could suggest - NOT state as a definite - that all the negative sentiments she transmits, could well, one day, find themselves back to blight her dlife....Ask her what she knows about Karma....
Yes, basically I've always had the idea that whatever bad energy one sends to someone else will come back to haunt us.
Like I said on another thread, I've had the chance to know two women who believed in hexing people -whether it worked or not, must depend on the other person buying into the delusion that they can be hexed- and they were the most miserable human beings I know.
Whenever my 8-year-old boy is in a grumpy mood towards one of his schoolmates and "wishes him all the worst and hate him," I tell him to transmute all that bad energy into something positive, let go of his mate for the moment and only concentrate on the good things in life until he can think back on the situation in a more positive light.
I'm struggling to see how you read that interpretation into my statement. I meant that anyone can call themselves a Buddhist but that doesn't mean they are practising Buddhism.
Actually your comment seems like the judgemental one.
Weird. That sounds to me like some kind of cult rebelling against an unfair notion of Buddha. Like... Mara-ism, maybe?
Is she planning to storm the shores of Nibanna?
I will ask her again what kind of Buddhism she apparently is practicing.
Yes, that would be interesting. I don't know of any Buddhist school which promotes verbal abuse, and generally Buddhists try to practice Right Speech.
As other people have mentioned - this is clearly totally against Buddhist principles. As the Dalai Lama says the essence of Buddhism, is to help others and if we cannot do that, making sure we do not harm them. She sounds unhinged and deluded and clueless as to what Buddhism entails.
And ugh your poor mum
!! I'd be mad too, such a horrible way to speak to someone. No matter what other 'dynamics' may be happening, it's a very immature, uncalled for and unkind way to speak to someone. I feel this woman may have a mental problem.
And haha, yes it would be amusing, to mention karma to this woman and see her reaction!
Yes. I'm being judgmental here. I can admit that and many other limitations. Some can't.
Now, in this more recent post, where you say, "that doesn't mean they are practising Buddhism"...that's different. None of us walks, talks, or acts Buddhist 24/7. None of us is that perfect. None of us follows even the basic 5 Precepts 24/7. In fact, you seem to acknowledge that a couple of posts later when you say, "generally Buddhists try to practice...".
If you want to say that a person inconsistently practices Buddhist principles. To me, that fine and dandy.
But when you begin deciding who is and who isn't Buddhist...well, who made you the decider? Or me the decider? Or the local abbot the decider? I pretty much assume that anyone who professes to be Buddhist is, but how far along on the path they are to perfecting Buddhistness is what may be up for debate.
You and I disagree OFTEN, but I would never say you're not a real Buddhist.
I was drawing a distinction between somebody who just calls themselves a Buddhist but doesn't do any practice, and somebody who is actually doing Buddhist practice. I don't think the first type of Buddhist is a "real" Buddhist because for me a Buddhist is somebody who does Buddhist practice. I would apply the same principle to any religious tradition.
Sigh. It's still you being the decider. And you're not.
Said, vinlyn, deciding that SpinyNorman is being a decider, which actually, I don't think he is being. It's an observation, not a judicial sentence.
I guess it's the scientist in me coming out. A scientist would make an observation like, "In that act he's not following Buddhist principles." From that he might go on to a conclusion like, "Therefore, he's not a (real) Buddhist."
Very distinct differences.
But, to each his own.
And believe me, when it comes to 'wild and imaginative' versus 'the scientific' approach, I'll opt for the latter every time.
The former is not without merit though. I guess, maybe, it's a point of understanding that not everyone can have, or is even familiar with, a scientific approach....
We don't all have the advantage of a clinically discriminating mind....
Just to play devil's advocate a bit here because I see the world in a different way thanks to my son...but some people, even adults in a seemingly normal working environment, have things going on that cause them to be unnecessarily blunt and way out of touch with appropriate social behavior. It is possible the person who said it honestly didn't really know well enough not to. It happens, even to adults. It certainly wouldn't be typical normal social behavior for someone to bluntly walk up to someone and say "Hi, you're fat." and walk away. Something about that, if that is indeed exactly what happened and not just your mom's perception, seems very off. So it is quite possible the person who said it didn't know better.
I know an adult in his 60s who had to be told not to blow straw wrappers at waitresses. He did it as a kid, so he did it for decades until someone found a way to tell him he shouldn't do that. Some people truly just don't get it by no fault of their own.
On that note, is it even possible she has a hitherto-undiagnosed mental affliction...? She may sincerely be trying to connect to Buddhism, but her mental capacity may not be adequately geared to social constraints and acceptable behaviour....? You know, something like Asperger's syndrome...
Just a side-thought...
or has it already been mentioned?
On a side note, I can empathise re: your son and inappropriate comments @karasti.
The other morning my daughter told me she was going to kill me. When I explained that this wasn't an appropriate thing to say to me she said "hmmmm.....I'll have to think of another way to get away from you without killing you". Bless.....
My son, when he was probably 7 years old, was wanting to look at legos in a toy store. When I told him we needed to wait our turn he was very loud in exclaiming "well, we wouldn't have to wait if that lady wasn't so fat that she took up the entire aisle!" So, yeah Thankfully, he's now almost an adult and he understands that level of inappropriate comments much better. But sometimes, they still come out and he truly doesn't know it's inappropriate until someone explains it to him. Sometimes he still doesn't understand why, but he'll listen to rules. He doesn't understand why he cannot lick his plate in a restaurant to get all the pie off of it. He doesn't do it because he knows he shouldn't. But he doesn't understand why. Lots of adults out there who are the same way.
First they think your God then they think your stupid Then they wonder how you got so smart all of a sudden. They are growing up only constant is your love.
And even that's debatable.
I have tried to contemplate it but really don't understand what a negative buddhist practice is, so am posing this question - what can be classified as a negative buddhist practice?
Wrong View, Wrong Intention, Wrong Speech, Wrong Action, etc., etc., etc.....
yes I get that but is that really wrong, or just plain ignorance! In which case most people in the world are not practicing buddhism, but many are practicing other religions, views incorporated into them may appear to be 'wrong' from a buddhist perspective, but neglecting their views is that not a wrong view in itself!
I had a similar thought, @anataman. I kind of wondered if it is fair to hold Buddhists to a higher standard than other people. Obviously, we are aware of the Eightfold path while others might not be, but they are pretty basic standards of living for any human. It's not ok for someone to be outwardly hurtful on purpose no matter who they are. But the title kind of seemed to suggest it's even WORSE for a Buddhist, which doesn't really work for me. Buddhists are in all stages of their practice and understanding, as we well know.
agree @ karasti - there is the view that being buddha is beyond the concept of god, but is that right, when you align other religions concept of god with the conceptual understanding of buddha - I believe both are beyond conceptual understanding, so?
I actually believe we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than other people.
Remember however, that Buddhists ARE different.
We do not lean, rely or count on an outside Deity to take it all on board and deal with our remorse, and set us on our way.
This is a complete, total no-holds-barred insider job. The DIY to end all DIYs.
Therefore, we can only be more accountable for what we choose to think/say/do, because this is the buckstop.
As Buddhists, we should 'set an example' to others, no matter what their calling, be it Buddhist or otherwise.
We damn well should know better, because we have to rely on dropping the veil of illusion, and seeing things as they Really Are.
No other religion encourages this. In fact, many religions talk about Divine Mystery, and of how God moves, accordingly.
We cut to the chase and prefer Right 'Everything'. 'Right' as in skilful, Mindful, and Compassionate.
agree @federica
Working as a sangha is a useful framework...
Hold ourselves, perhaps, but that doesn't mean holding other Buddhist to our standards of ourselves (to me, anyhow). I certainly try my best, but sometimes I fail and it is up to me to figure that out and fix it. Also, we know nothing about this person and what kind of Buddhist they purport to be, how long they claim to have been Buddhist, and so on. Just as Christians, Muslims and other take their teachings and turn them on their ear to use them as a reason to harm others, so do some Buddhists. But trying to compare my path, what I have learned, my Buddhist tradition to what others do is what causes a bit split between people. We don't always have to compare, it's just such an us versus them mentality that we are supposed to be working to get past.
Like I said, it doesn't mean that it was ok, what this person did. It doesn't make it ok if they did it in the name of Buddhism. But it doesn't speak to Buddhism or other Buddhists. It is just the suffering that person is experiencing. We each choose what to do with our own suffering, and that includes the OPs mom, who can choose what to do with the hurtful comments. One doesn't have to accept the labels others place on them.
Umm I wonder how many practicing lay Buddhists (especially those who have just begun to follow the path and begun to call themselves a "Buddhist") have on the spur of the 'moment' said nasty things about other people and or to their face ? Or for that matter had negative thoughts about somebody ?
We might just be blowing this all out of proportion...and the person in question could have been having a bad day, and some people it would seem are prone to having many 'bad' days... To put it more bluntly..."Shit Happens"
Perhaps she just wasn't being 'mindful' of her practice...
I thought that's what I said. Somebody who doesn't do Buddhist practice isn't a "real" Buddhist.
I have a strong interest in science too. But even scientists can be irrational and opinionated.
Let's bear in mind that the OP was simply expressing curiosity as to whether there exists a school of Buddhism which practises sending negative thoughts to other fellow human beings.
He was not raising the question as to whether Buddhist people should stand by certain standards or stick by those standards more strictly than people from other beliefs...