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Benefits of Lay Buddhism?
I feel most of us, I certainly do, have a deep respect and am inspired by the commitment and efforts of the Sangha. Particularly in the West were the commitment, integrity and effort seems less of a rite of passage or only chance of education, socialisation or some institutional organisation.
However most of us here are lay Buddhists and we have considerable advantages. In some ways our committed practice is more easily distracted but even so is it advantageous to think of distinctions based on life style?
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OP, could you explain a bit more the concept you want us to discuss? I'm not getting it. Are you comparing sangha-based practice with those who study and practice without a sangha or with only an online sangha?
I also don't understand the statement, "[ As lay Buddhists] we have considerable advantages". Advantages over whom? Compared to what? Non-Buddhists? Buddhist monastics? Sorry, not getting your drift.
Being a lay-Buddhist means having your cake and eating it.
Some of us are not cut out for a monastic life.
Why be an unskillful Buddhist monk when we can be skillful Buddhist laypeople?
The most obvious advantage to me, in that case, would be to be consistent with one's own beliefs in the situation in life that we're called to occupy, without any unnecessary regrets and/or qualms.
It's easier to stay in bed?
And not alone...?
I think sometimes, ignorance is bliss. The less we understand, the less we feel accountable. We are allowed more foibles, if not by others, at least by ourselves.
I think knowledge is bliss, @AllbuddhaBound.
Precisely because we understand, we feel accountable, we assume responsibility, we are tolerant towards our foibles (though not lenient) and towards others'
Yes, I understand what you mean @DhammaDragon, but I believe the bliss you are speaking of is enlightenment. Me being far from that, I guess I settle for a lower standard of bliss. The road to enlightenment for a monastic would be much more attainable, but also much more austere.
Some of us are not cut out for a monastic life.
Could you elaborate on that?
Leading a monastic life implies having the calling, the vocation to do so.
I, for one, love being married and having a son.
What kind of nun would I do?
Fair enough. I wondered if you meant that certain personality types weren't suited to a monastic life.
Those people who are not ready to renounce a household life, nor renounce a sexual life, are not suited for a monastic life.
Edit: We have seen enough bad examples in all confessions of people who decided to embrace a religious life and did not live up to the job description, so to speak.
A lot of years ago, when I was taking the first wobbly steps on a spiritual path, I seemed to concoct a variety of premises for doing so. One was that I wanted to know -- for my own purposes and not as a means of convincing others -- whether spiritual life were bullshit or not.
Time passed and I found myself doing 40 or more hours a week of sangha-based Zen practice at the same time that I held down a job. And it was at that point that I decided that going to a monastery made some sense. Partly, I was under the misapprehension that monks did it better and had a better shot at 'enlightenment' than mere laymen like myself. And partly I had a fiery determination: If you're going to do something, don't do it by halves... a gussied-up version of the old junky adage, "if one's good, two's better."
And so it was that I signed up for a six-month trial period at a monastery. Signed up for six and lasted two. But flunking out of a monastic life turned out to be one of the most useful events in my practice: This was a no-bullshit truth -- I was no monastic, however unvirtuous or ashamed of myself I might feel. And it was more important to me to be honest than to be virtuous. After I quit the monastery, I kept up my meditation practice, but now it was with a revised understanding ... my understanding, not an understanding to sell to anyone else, lay or monk. The decision meant I had to shoulder a lot more responsibility: No longer could I trust a monastic template. Spiritual life became much broader, much more faceted, and much harder to make blanket statements about. "Better" and "worse" were not matters for generalization or philosophy or religion, There was only the matter of what anyone actually did and was actually willing to take responsibility for. Sexy words like "renunciation" or "compassion" might have some usefulness, but my willingness to bow in thoughtless obedience had been brought up short.
These days, I guess I think that laymen want to discover what monks/nuns know at the same time that monks/nuns want to discover what laymen know. Such information may be inspiring, but in the end it is not terribly informative. What is informative is what you know and have taken the trouble to verify.
Patience, courage, doubt ... and more patience: Everyone has a capacity for such things. The only question is whether they are willing to exercise them.
I guess Buddhism pretty much boils down to ... bullshit makes the flowers grow and your garden mileage may vary.
FWIW.
I lived in Buddhist communities when I was younger but it was easier back then with few commitments.
Benefits of Lay Buddhism?
I like the excuses.....( I hasten to add as lay people we have the luxury of excuses when we don't feel up to doing our practice)
Here are some more "excuses" -- a segment of a letter from Ta Hui (a Zen Buddhist teacher, 1088-1163) to Hsu Tun-chi:
As a gentleman of affairs, your study of the Path differs greatly from mine as a homeleaver. Leavers of home do not serve their parents, and abandon all their relatives for good. With one jug and one bowl, in daily activities according to circumstances, there are not so many enemies to obstruct the Path. With one mind and one intent (homeleavers) just investigate this affair thoroughly. But when a gentleman of affairs opens his eyes and is mindful of what he sees, there is nothing that is not an enemy spirit blocking the Path. If he has wisdom, he makes his meditational effort there. As Vimalakirti said, "The companions of passion are the progenitors of the Tathagatas. I fear that people will destroy the worldly aspect to seek the real aspect." ....
If you can penetrate through right here, as those three elders, Yang Wen-kung, Li Wen-ho, and Chan Wu-chin did, your power will surpass that of us leavers of home by twentyfold. What's the reason? We leavers of home are on the outside breaking in; gentlemen of affairs are on the inside breaking out. The power of one on the outside breaking in is weak; the power of one on the inside breaking out is strong. "Strong" means that what is opposed is heavy, so in overturning it there is power. "Weak" means what is opposed is light, so in overturning it there is little power. Though there is strong and weak in terms of power, what is opposed is the same.
-- Swampland Flowers: The Letters and Lectures of Zen Master Ta Hui. Tr. Christopher Cleary. Grove Press 1977
I would say that excuses for lax practice is actually a human practice belonging as much to the laity as to monastics.
Tsk, tsk to think that monastics feel they are nearer by virtue of superficialities . . . What are superficialities?
Dress, location and behaviour.
That is outer form. Enlightenment is an inner function empty of form.
The enlightened too wear awareness, are located everywhere and behave according to the situation. They are independent of advertising, symbolic virtue and ignorance based on form.
This is were integrity and practice overcomes the trappings of lay or monastic 'ultra spirituals'.
I would humbly suggest that a real person, whether a monk or laity is on the path because of their commitment to change the Hinyana mentality (small minded inner wheels and deals) to a certainty that the Buddha had. Under this tree and no escape.
We all come to the Bo tree under which the Buddha sat. That is a symbolic placement where we realise that our outer form, situation in life and behaviour ain't working.
Now what?
Suggestions on a cushion to the usual addressing.
I think the only real benefit monks and nuns have... is not having other distractions. This brings the incessant craving to the fore as they become incredibly bored.
I don't think monks and nuns have time to get bored.
Sure they do, it's all that time they're expected to be meditating.
Unless they love meditating so much that it's all they want to do, ceaseless craving will rear its head. They can't satisfy those cravings; cravings for sex, good food, entertainment, music, and all the other trappings of lay life.
This results in suffering. That's actually a good thing. It drives them to either give up monastic life, or put effort toward the goal. There's no other choice, unless they wish to wallow in suffering, which doesn't solve anything!
I suspect monks and nuns are more contented though.
Eventually, if they get used to it. Many people can't take it and quit before very long, or so I've read in books by Buddhist monks.
Isn't that a bit like watching a family sitcom on TV and imagining that this is how real life would be if I just had my head screwed on right?
My comment was based on having been on retreat to monasteries, having talked to monks, having seen talks by monks etc.
But going back to the OP, have we actually identified any benefits from lay-practice? Are there any advantages to lay-practice compared to monastic practice?
I find there are advantages to both the lay and cloistered approaches. Both are a question of what works. So to answer @SpinyNorman, I feel we have to work from the position we are in - cyber laity in the main. Is enlightenment possible for us? You bet your incense stick it is.
We have to find a practice that works. Remember we are different in needs, dharma experience, life experience and many other factors.
I am finding inspiration and commitment from others progress. Many people here are developing palpable progress, tightening into the way and overcoming the diversity of obstacles that both sangha and laity can ignore or learn from. I certainly learn a great deal by having my limitations widened, my approach reflected in others and I value the community insights that people here kindly offer.
Is enlightenment possible for us?
according to suttas the first three stages (stream winner, once returner, non returner) are possible for lay buddhists
yes, the first stage (stream winner) is possible for us for sure
This is where my comment on "having the calling or vocation" fits in.
People who choose to lead a monastic life by pure personal choice, do not have as much problem as we laypeople would like to believe in dealing with their cravings and dukkha.
The fact that there are so many religious people in all religions all over the world is the living proof that some people are cut out for a monastic life.
Those who aren't, either don't go down that path, or drop out after trying it for size for a while.
Yes, I can still get laid.
Hey, that's my honest answer.
Bravo, Cinor!
I can still get laid too!
Some guys have all the luck......
TMI....?
Lays have more options, including sex, life, death, children, IPads and the Interweb. We have more . . . potentially more distractions . . . or more opportunities to practice. So it is not the location but the inclination that separates the ladies from the nuns, the men from the boy sangha, the wood from the trees . . . [lobster rambles off into the dharmic sunset . . . ]
I guess if your a lay now, are you not peeling or making a start for maybe a next life, in which you might become a monk? Just my simple 2 cents.
I must admit that a few years ago I wanted to become a monk, probably a romanticised view. But having been a solider for 9yrs I felt that I would like the structure. In the position I now find myself if I could become a “Lay-Monk” I would
but I guess my personal commitment plus physical impairments don’t allow for a monastic life.........Note to self Buddhist Monk next time round please 
There are all sorts of vocations outside the monastery that lay along the Path...
I’m an autistic who is called highly functional. And I’ve an autistic son who’s not so ”highly functional”. I have succeeded as a researcher in biology, but I was regarded a bit retarded in the elementary school, which was quite a horrible place for me. Above all I disliked teachers whose speech I couldn’t understand. They couldn’t teach me hardly anything, and at the same time I had a stepfather who made me dislike any kind of authorities even more.
The beauty and core of Buddhism have attracted me for decades, but please no masters and schools!
Here's a pic I took last Summer. Walking on those "endless" bogs. It's painful and soothing at the same time. Different strokes for different folks.
@Lobster
The primary potential benefit of being a monk comes from living within a practice environment that is supportive of spiritual selflessness over worldly selfishness.
The primary potential benefit of being a layperson comes from learning how to achieve such selflessness while immersed within the selfishness of the world..
Very good answer @how, many thanks.
Totally agree with the difference and potentials within the two approaches.
I feel the potential depth of practice is initially easier in a secluded, protected environment, hence the benefit of retreats and group practice.