Vipassana, 10 day course. I am thinking of it.
Rhodian
Loser Veteran
Hello,
I find myself asking help her again I am very sorry. I was reading: Bhante Henepola Gunaratana's book on Vipassana, I got some advice on finding a buddhist master or maybe a course, now I have found one close to me.
I have a few issues though, one is I am quite new to buddhism. Should I do this? Or should I wait, they got a long waiting list and I could get in at April, in this time I might be more advanced but who knows? Should I wait Or should I apply?
On the other hand they ask you if your healthy and such, but I do have rheumatism, and I do have a personality disorder, I am afraid they would decline me if I say this, but I do not want to lie as well. Lieing is bad, but there's also the fear of being declined.
Thus I am asking you all advice and hope you can help me all. Maybe I am rushing things to fast, but I am also afraid I might do vippassana wrong and this course might greatly help me!
I thank you all!
Comments
Is it this lot? http://www.dhamma.org/
I haven't done one but people over at the Dhamma Wheel forum have talked about them.
I would suggest getting in touch and having a chat to somebody on the team that runs the course - and do be straight with them about your personal circumstances.
Yes that is correct, should I contact the oganisation or someone that does the course in the location that is doable for me?
Probably best to try the local lot if that's possible. I think they start with breathing meditation and then introduce the vipassana aspect gradually.
@Rhodian
I have had enough unhappy people come for Zen meditation instruction following a 10 day Vipassana to give me pause in recommending that retreat for everyone.
I have no idea whether the intensity of the retreat actually aggravated there own mental states as I only met them afterwards but they certainly unearthed stuff at the 10 day retreat that they were certainly having difficulty in coming to terms with.
I have nothing against the retreat myself and my partner has gone through many such retreats but I would echo what SpinyNorman suggests which is to be perfectly candid with the course organizers about your own circumstances if you do apply.
Thanks to the both of you I have send them an e-mail with the plain truth and will see what I get back. I will leave it in the hands of karma. Who knows I might get a reply back and can talk with them, or maybe I can't? I will look at it, though it would be a setback if I would never be able to go there. I am afraid I might do vipsanna in a wrong way just from understanding it out of a book but I will try my best and maybe, just maybe it might work out. I am just concerned as a Schizoid persnality disorder which I have gets linked with schizophrenia and people think I am a wacky person with psychological outbursts and attacks.
Which is far from truth.
But I do thank you again for your help.
Thanks a lot.
Vipassana is my primary meditation method - and I highly recommend doing this under the guidance of a teacher. It can get intense. (I have a teacher.) Yes be up front and be sure you will receive plenty of one-on-one guidance during the retreat. And if you go through with it do not be afraid to tell the teacher what you are experiencing.
I have send a mail, and we can only wait and see! But thanks for your input.
@Rhodian
Few things will resolve your own fears of possible practicing your meditation incorrectly like incorporating the study and manifestation of the Buddha's 4NT & 8FP into that practice.
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I think that a ten-day course, regardless of the number of hours per day, would be just too much bombarding. I mean, it's too much for someone new to meditation. I would think that two to three hour sessions once or twice a month would likely be much more beneficial, it there is any potential benefit lurking there for you right now, in the first place. The authentic thing comes mostly from within with slow and gradual guidance. I wouldn't try to "catch up" with others...
I too have read and heard about people who couldn't cope with these 10 day retreats, though not as often as I've heard these retreats praised. The complaints were in two camps; one camp experienced extreme aversion to the structure and expectations (mostly their own) and the other camp had emotional flooding that got scary.
Ten days is a LONG time for a first retreat. And from what we hear these retreats are rigorous. There are safer and gentler ways to get the benefits as a beginner, and then work yourself up and have a splendid and excellent ten day vipassana retreat some time in the future.
I used to worry that if I didn't do this or that that I wouldn't get the goodies like enlightenment. While it is sort of 'true' I've come to see this yearning and striving to make me miss the point. It's hard to explain, I'm just not stressing myself out with expectations and 'you should _____ or else you're a sucky Buddhist'.
If there are psychological problems under tight control in there, a ten day retreat WILL INDEED let them loose. That's an experience no one needs to have, if there's a better way to develop resilience.
I went to a five day retreat type thing many years ago. We weren't allowed to speak except to a teacher or during sessions, and there was tons of unstructured time for meditation. Two people lost it by day two, and the one I knew began seeing flashbacks of her father beating her mother and she was not ready for it. I think if there is ANY doubt about one's emotional stability, go easy and do a one day retreat first and work your way up. Others might encourage you to jump in the water and learn how to swim. That is one way to do it, but I'm pretty much a wimp
Maybe.
How many hours of meditation are you physically and mentally up for?
Greetings,
I did a ten day retreat a couple of years ago and will be attending a second one this March. My 2 cents worth is to go for it and don't over think it before hand. True it's not easy and any number of things may surface, but is also very rewarding for most people. Most will get thru it fine and the theory is what surfaces is stuff you needed to remember in order to move beyond (from personal experience I agree with this). I'm no psychiatrist but if I'm not mistaken in the days before labeling such things as 'disorders' you would have been simply referred to as 'a loner'. If that's the case make sure they understand this. On that basis I have no doubt you'll do just fine. In any case although it is discouraged (for good reason) if you find it too much for you to deal with there's no law against leaving mid course. If you want to pick my brain about the experience via a PM feel free.
Metta
As ever it's good to hear from somebody with actual personal experience.
I have attended it before.
Dont go, look for other alternatives.
It is going to confuse you a lot about buddhist meditation.
As an australian described it, it is more like a concentration camp.
If you do go, just remember not to believe everything they tell you.
@hermitwin, Perhaps I missed something but I don't believe the OP mentioned where or who was running the retreat he/she is considering. In any case it might be more helpful to be specific as to exactly what your reasons are.
I have send a mail, and we can only wait and see! But thanks for your input. > @Nirvana said:
Oh I didn't want to 'catch up.' For me meditation is a personal thing I set out to do, no one to catch up to really. But I thought with such an course I would have a strong foundation, and at least know I am doing it right, I am trying vipasanna at the moment but think I am doing it all wrong.
Very nice post, I myself just want a strong foundation to build on. As I am someone that always is scared I interpretent things wrong, I am not so smart in that regard. And when people would give me instructions I would always do it wrong. But I can imagine how hard it is, I spend 3 days in a christian monastary which was nice for me as I was doing walks and such. It was a really nice area and cheap and I was depressed and wanted to go out. But I got bored a lot, I would feel when your somewhere meditating all the time is very hard, I do not even know if I can last hours, but I thought this vipassana course was made for new people. But I will probably indeed look for something else.
Here it is ussually the cold that makes me go away. I'd say I could last half a hour and maybe with a 5 minute break could last another few mintes, I think I cannot sit still for 90 minutes, but with small breaks I could. Though yeah 90 minutes is way to much in one sit. The not eating before mornin etc is not that hard for me though.
thanks may I ask, how advanced uhm where you? Is that the right word where? Because I am quite a newbie did you jump in as a newbie or did you already have something under your belt?
They sound quite strict, and I will take this in mind. Though you can always walk out if you want midway, they cannot force you but you might be right you might be not. We will see what they reply to my e-mail I send stating my issues. I am also going to look if there's anything else. But I live in a very remote area in the southern part of the Netherlands, this thing is in Belgium which I could go to.
@Rhodian, I've been meditating on and off for quite some time (decades). Retreat I mentioned was the first one I had undertaken. As I said it wasn't easy but I found it far from torturous. Most of the folks I have spoken to have found it a positive experience. You may or may not but you'll only know if you give it a go. I don't see any issues being a 'newbie' although you might want to start doing regular daily sittings to get the body loosened up. Knees and back might give you a bit of grief if you're not used to it.
Metta
Hmm I have to think this one trough, I looked at what more there is, and there is nothing in my own country which is quite saddening. It's only that vipassana one in Belgium but I will look if there are 3 days courses in Belgium as well.
Have a look at this:
http://www.buddhanet.info/wbd/search.php?keyword=&search=Search&type_id[]=1&type_id[]=2&country_id=70&province_id=0&tradition[]=theravada&tradition[]=mahayana&tradition[]=vajrayana&tradition[]=non-sectarian
This is the video you will watch at the end of 1st day.
This recording will be played early in the morning.
Thanks most are far away but I did listen to a lecture of Bhante G and I will just go with the flow and see if I do that 10 day course someday. Some people say it's good some say it is not. But if I can meditate for long and have reached that I might go and see. Or I might do other course, but I think I want to go on with Vipasanna
@cook99 thanks a lot for sharing these with me.
This 10 day Goenka retreat was my first exposure to Buddha Dharma outside of books. I walked into this experience blind and had no idea how "difficult" things were supposed to be as I had no basis to compare. This ignorance ended up being an asset as I doubt looking back I would have done such a thing had I known what was in store.
I have 50/50 feelings about my experience and their particular approach. Hopefully my sharing can be of some value to you.
On one hand, their technique is impeccable; 4-5 days of Anapanasati only, followed by 5-6 days of Anapana and Vipassana-body scanning. This was at least 10 hours a day on the cushion. Despite the initial discomfort, I learned to appreciate the rigorous schedule as it produced palpable "results" such as increased concentration, insight, etc.
On the other hand, I felt dirty and like I just walked out of a cult upon returning home. Their social conditioning was WAY over the top, as was their insistence that what they were teaching was not "Buddhism". Unfortunately, their lack of context didn't help. Had I known and learned some of the Buddha words, had some of this practice been supplemented with words from the the Nikayas (as opposed to the chanting above), I'd probably felt different.
For an example of the extreme social conditioning, they confiscate your car-keys upon the start of the retreat, discourage proper eating or sleeping for beginners, speak ill of ANY other method of cultivation, actively discourages questioning, essentially takes Guru Goenka's (may he rest) word as law, etc. I don't mean to paint a negative impression of their group as perhaps I had a unique experience. That said, I'm not exaggerating in the least and only intend to present the truth of my time in hopes of informing your consideration.
If you can separate the idiosyncrasies of the "assistant teachers" and the atmosphere of unquestioning adherence from the wonderful opportunity to practice in a dedicated and rigorous environment, I'd recommend giving it a look.
Very interesting way of thinking, I was afraid this might be a thing of it being a bit to attached to they're master.
I think I might be better finding some online sources on vipassana and see if I can maybe find someone that is known with theravada or maybe in the future find an online teacher. Who knows, but I might be wise to not go to that course or go and be able to learn the meditation and that's it. I surely do not want to be conditioned, it seems kind of hardcore they take your car keys.
But I thank you for your story, I was wanting to ask I know contact is forbidden during the course, but did you maybe notice people leaving or not being able to pull trough?
I think I might be better finding some online sources on vipassana and see if I can maybe find someone that is known with theravada or maybe in the future find an online teacher
Some of the discussions here might be worth a browse:
http://dhammawheel.com/viewforum.php?f=44
haha you come at a nice time, I just got a mail and they would accept me. And I am welcome, I am just wondering if I should do it yes or no I will brose that discussion on my leisure thanks a lot!
If you browse you may well find some of your questions answered. You'll also find information about on-line resources for vipassana and the various methods that are out there.
I am going to talk some friends and might just go there, I have gotten a positive mail back from them. And just when I looked where on the map it is, I found it probably is a 15 minute 20 minute drive. So I am very close to home still.
I thank you all for your advice and for now I will have to decide what to do which is hard but I will talk to some of my friends.
Well, thanks to this thread I was curious about my experience again. I highly recommend this honest and through critique of the Goenka method as it's as far as I can see, relatively free of emotional bias and detailed enough to help me remember some of the particulars I'd forgotten from 6-ish years ago:
https://daophatnguyenthuy.wordpress.com/phản-biện-của-cac-trường-phai-vipassana-khac-nhau/a-critique-of-vipassana-meditation-as-taught-by-mr-s-n-goenka/
I am plowing trough this and landed at the critiques I find this quite scary.
But as you said the technique is alright, it just is the sect-feeling, feeling weird when walking out. I guess I am strong enough to see trough that, and be able to go learn my techniques donate a bit of money and head back out. Of course I am in it for the techniques, what do you think?
Personally, it was insightful but I wouldn't do it again. Also, I've been told you can find similar techniques with the proper context and support in other Theravada traditions. Honestly, since when does a lay-person have to be "accepted" to practice the Dharma? Should you be encouraged rather than screened? Just a thought.
Thanks I will not do this, I did sign up but I will tell them I got a job and something got inbetween in, this should be the best way. I mean they are really close and such but I want to go on Vipassana the way Bhante G does it. And he does not do it the Goenka way.
I thank you a lot. Sad thing they are the only ones with free courses, and the rest I cannot afford.
You can start practicing the simple stuff now. For example, cultivating the 5 precepts. I would be honest and tell the Vipassana group you've simply changed your mind. No harm in that. And if you change your mind again, once again, no harm in that. They tend to champion the idea of impermanence, so I'm sure they'll understand, haha.
In the meanwhile, there are plenty of free options for exploring the Dharma. Realize, if you're paying a fee, it's almost always paying for the setup, rent, materials, etc. No one ever really pays cash for the Dharma. You pay in effort, diligence, guideline, and all other sorts of intangibles. That said, Dana is an important parami and generosity is important it most all Buddhist traditions I'm aware of.
Try reaching out for a scholarship or some sort of sponsorship / assistance somewhere you may be interested. Sometimes asking the question may be enough.
Good luck!
You are right perhaps, though I want a decent meditation technique as that is important I really like vipassana, but am afraid I do it wrong.
As for costs, well you'd see I could pay a course that means you go there 1 evening every week, no problem. Those are affordable, but the problem is if you have to go there 6 times, 2 train tickets is the price of the whole course. which I cannot pay, and a retreat often costs a lot.....
But I will look for some good books, there is a buddhist center I could reach by car but they are Mahayana, they are from something called kadampa tradition? I do not know, I think they call themselves that, but I want to do Theravada, as vipassana appeals to me more then Zen dit and Zen is Mahayana as well. But I do thank you for your input and will let them know I changed my mind haha!
That's understandable. I know nothing of kadampa, but (full disclose) I'd probably be labeled more Mahayana in practice if I had to do so. That said, I've learned that the sectarian stuff to be more of a distraction to my cultivation. I've met monks and/or nuns from all three major traditions and in a way you can just tell when someone actually practices versus not. Different methods to the same destination. The rest is just perspective and culture really, which is as subjective as you and I, (not to diminish the value of culture but to recognize the influence for what it is.).
Anyhow, may you find what you need to help you on your way.
For me it is just the vipassana meditation works way better, I can focus on breath so I am not inclined to think as much. When I am counting breath and have to focus on nothing, I cannot do that.
But I do really thank you for your help and helping me to make a good deciscion! So thanks a lot!
@Rhodian,
Engish 'were' for past tense, 'where' often refers to What Place (physical location). "Where were you in terms of progess of becoming advanced" is probably what you are trying for. That phrase is a figure of speech combined with complex English.