Christian privilege in the United States.
yagr
Veteran
I seem to be doing a lot of cutting and pasting lately. Here's one more. I was thinking about this as I was reading the Garland Texas thread and thought it might be an interesting tangent to see what others thought. Fundamental Christianity is powerful in the United States and I actually wrote this to them - hoping I might make some headway toward understanding. It's not been the first time I was wrong. Anyway - enjoy....or not. 
There are some very real concerns recently in articles, news reports and certainly the comment section of this and other stories, that Christians are under attack. Many Christians feel attacked and victimized within the United States. Many non-Christians find this idea ludicrous. As far as I can tell, both sides think the other is either completely blind, in everlasting denial, or simply lying. Personally, I believe that Christians are afforded a certain privilege in the US that they simply can't see. There's a name for this phenomena – non-conscious ideology.
Non-conscious ideology is a concept used to describe any ideology whose implicit acceptance continues its dominance within a society. Sexism is a good example. Until the late sixties, the overwhelming majority of people never even considered that women could perform as well as men. They certainly couldn't drive as well, no one would ever vote for one for president, and if you needed a dangerous surgery there was no way you were going to let a woman surgeon do the job unless you were suicidal.
Christian privilege in the United States is an unconscious ideology. Christians are continually told they are special. By contrast, I am a Buddhist. There are seven states in which I cannot hold public office as a result. Let's take a look at some of the differences that we don't think about on a day to day basis. I'm going to ask you to think about the accumulative effect of these and other examples not just on my religious beliefs, but Hindus, Muslims, atheists, etc.
Christians can wear religious jewelry without fear. Decorate their office with Christian sayings or scriptural messages. They don't have to worry about their religion interfering with their professional ambitions. You can, if you choose, ignore other religions customs and language without reprisal. You can promote your religion on your cars, lawns and homes without reasonable fear of vandalism. You don't have to warn your children about the dangers of real (re: violent) persecution if others find out what your religion is.
Most Christians don't have to work on their holiest days. It's okay if you don't, but can any Christian reading this even name the holiest Buddhist day or tell me what it is without looking it up? How about any other religions holiest day? Most stores take the Christian sabbath into account. School events often address Christian holidays. You can expect to find television specials and music related to your holidays everywhere. You expect to be greeted in Christian fashion on your holidays; i.e., Merry Christmas, Happy Easter, etc. Look at the uproar at Happy Holiday's.
When Christians travel, it's easy to find a church of their denomination. Their hotel room will have a copy of their holy book. When they turn on the television or radio, they'll be able to find Christian channels. When someone talks about or thanks God, they can assume it's their God being spoken about. When someone talks about scripture, they can assume it's their holy book being discussed. Even here on the world wide web, emphasis on 'world', when I speak about scripture without explicitly saying 'Buddhist scriptures' I am corrected – every time, by someone who explains that I am wrong; what I just said is not in the Bible.
It's a very small percentage of Christians who have to fear revealing to their parents or loved ones their religion. You don't have to worry about moving to a place where Christians aren't welcome. Your opinions won't be dismissed because of your religion – there will at least be a debate or discussion. You'll hear your prayers in public, opening government meetings, twelve step meetings, etc. Can you imagine your consternation if you were fighting for your kids in family court and were about to take the stand and were asked to swear in by placing your hand on the Bhagavad Gita or the Koran? What do you do? They may look down on you if they discover your Christian...and it's your kids!
Christians aren't expected to speak for all Christians. What do Buddhists believe about x,y,z? Zen Buddhists or Theravada Buddhists? What? Catholics or Mormons or Baptists or... they implicitly understand that not all Christians think alike and have the same beliefs. As such, they don't have to worry that everything they do will reflect poorly on their religion. Christian charity, Christian love...even the word Christian here is used as an adjective meaning the best version of a quality. It's actually not like that in countries where the dominant religion isn't Christian.
My children and yours will learn about famous Christians in history class. You can easily find a religious place to marry. You can easily find private religious schools. You don't have to worry about finding foods that fit your religious dietary restrictions. You can get directories of Christian owned businesses to shop at. Criticizing our society or government can be dangerous for a non-Christian. Even criticizing or debating Christianity and the Bible is okay for Christians but hateful for non-Christians.
These privileges and others are NOT the fault of Christians. They are, however, often invisible to them, just as they'd probably be invisible to me if I were Christian. Just as my male privilege went unnoticed until someone pointed it out to me back in the sixties... darn, I got old quick...
Comments
You put into words a lot of the things I haven't been able to when having these discussions. It boggles my mind the "war against Christianity" and I cannot fathom how people in the US think there is one. In other countries, yes. Where you can be beheaded for being a Christian (or any other religion outside the sanctioned one by the ruling group). But not in the US. Society as a whole doesn't react with fear when Christianity is brought up. People don't see you and ask if you are a witch or if you worship satan. I get asked those things on a surprisingly regular basis, LOL. They feel their beliefs are under attack because society is growing and changing. It gives them comfort, I think, to feel fully supported in society and have all those privileges you just mentioned. They feel some of that is going away and they are terrified. It's very odd to me what exactly they are so afraid of losing.
I don't think there is one "answer" to your post because it's quite a complex issue.
Is Christianity under attack? Well, I think that frequent statement is wrong in one sense and right in another. If you look at Supreme Court legislation over many decades, I think you could stake a position that the Supreme Court, slowly over time, has attacked many widely held Christian values. Let me give 3 examples -- rulings against displays (such as Ten Commandments displays) in public places, the sodomy ruling, and the ruling against certain provisions within DOMA. Those and many other decisions did attack certain principles widely regarded as "foundational Christian principles". And, here's the key -- some groups of Christians saw it as government over-reach into the separation of church and state, failing to see that in many instances Christians over-reached into government, as well.
And then there is the rising tide against certain Christian philosophical-groups by the general population. Primarily I'm talking about the "evangelical movement". Various secular groups have definitely stepped up their rhetoric against evangelical Christians and their values; agnostics and atheists are more willing to speak out against certain Christian values than ever before. Even the Christians I know (who today include mostly Methodists and Catholics) think the evangelical point of view on moral issues is "Neanderthalish". Most Christians I know focus almost entirely on the New Testament and reject all or major parts of the Old Testament.
So yes, I think in a sense, Christianity is under attack...and needs to be.
Then there's the other side of the coin -- the concept of Christian privilege. Most Christians just don't understand that at all. I seethe with anger each year at our annual HOA meeting when our HOA president conducts a long Christian prayer, never understanding that some people who live in our community might be Jewish or Buddhist, or just not believe that prayer should be mixed into public meetings. But the best examples of Christian privilege that I ever saw was during my time as a principal, which happened to be in a county that was very diverse. As far as I know, the first issue that came up was school holidays centered around Christmas and Easter. Finally, after years of rancorous discussions -- mostly by the Jewish community -- the "Easter vacation" was changed to Spring break and no longer necessarily began or ended with Easter Sunday. Jews, Christians, and other non-Christian groups were allowed to take their religious holidays without being considered "absent". And, for any publicly recognized religious holiday, teachers in school were not allowed to give tests or conduct certain other activities.
And yet, the overall problem persisted, and was best exemplified by a teacher in the high school I last taught before moving over into administration. At a faculty in early November, one of the teachers stood up and demanded that our school have a traditional Christmas-nativity pageant, and concluded her fiery remarks by saying, "After all, we're in the majority!" Well, to my surprise (and delight) she literally got booed down.
But a few years later when I was principal, despite a rather vague annual directive from the superintendent, similar problems continued to arise. For example, there was an annual argument about whether or not we should allow a Christmas tree on the stage of our school (which was part of the cafeteria...dumbly called the cafetorium); and I allowed it because the teacher who designed it had it decorated not with the usual Christman ornaments, but with index-card-sized flags representing each and every country that we had students from (and so there were flags from many Middle Eastern and Asian nations). I allowed it. Then there was the issue of Christmas music at the band/orchestra and (separate) choral concerts. I didn't restrict the band and orchestra from any music, but I did restrict the chorus to doing non-religious Christmas music. It was a huge struggle each year. The one year I began the policy, the choral teacher (who was pretty liberal herself as a lesbian) said, "But there is no Christmas music that is not religious". So I provided her with a list of holiday songs (e.g., "Winter Wonderland", "White Christmas") that were not religious in nature. Still, each year it was a struggle and she would always beg, "Can't we just throw in a Jewish number?" (since that was our largest non-Christian community). Then, one year a parent gave me my most powerful tool. It was a Muslim parent who came in and said to me, "Why should my child, who is Muslim, be forced to sing Christian music?" (chorus was an elective course in our school, not an extracurricular activity). So I called the choral teacher down to my office and said, "Mrs. _____ has a question she would like to ask you. The parent had gotten through it well with me, but by the time she got to the target of the question, she was crying as she asked the teacher the same question. Problem solved. Until a few years later we had a different choral teacher.
And the problem is that many Christians cannot see that they are perpetuating Christian privilege. The privilege has been around so long that it is just part of what they see as "normal".
The worst that happens it we level the bar a little bit. They don't hold a majority over all the recognized holidays, celebrations, laws, and everything else we all have to live with. Just like the rest of us. They live their path, and they celebrate with their families. Not at work, not at school etc. But that seems to be the last thing they want. They feel they are losing something in that. I'm not sure why it feels that way to them. Does it give them comfort to see the 10 commandments at City Hall? Why? Or is more about them using it to hold power? Watering down Christianity's influence on our society will (I think) help ease tensions for a lot of people. But I think they don't want to give up that power, though I still don't understand how they think they lose their values if we stop making laws based on them and celebrate winter (or other seasons) instead of Jesus' birth and death. They always wanna put the Christ back in Christmas but don't have much to say when you ask them to put the Pagan back in Halloween. They aren't even aware that the customs and rituals they use to celebrate their religion don't come from their religion. There is, it seems, a lot of arrogance in Christianity as a practice and I think that needs to (and is, slowly) come down some.
Well, now that you bring up the Halloween thing...that became another major issue in our school system. Our middle school had a long tradition of dressing up at Halloween, and we had parents every year that came in and argued against it on religious principles.
Personally, from an historic point-of-view, I don't care much about whether or not a monument to the Ten Commandments is allowed in publicly owned places. I think back to a visit to the Capitol building in Pennsylvania, and a century old mural of Moses as "The Law Giver". There is a basis for our legal system coming down from that, and I would hate to see that historic mural destroyed out of a purity for separation of church and state. I just want to make sure the way our government applies the law TODAY is equal justice under the law.
No, I don't see a sense in destroying what is basically art out of some sense of purity, either. But I do see value in putting up murals that include other beliefs, and THAT ends up a problem.
We used to live in Fargo and there was long a debate about a public 10 commandments monument on city ground. When it became known the group that sued intended to put up a monument that was of other significance (I can't recall what they wanted to put up) the city council that day adjourned in a special meeting and voted that they would not be allowed to put up such monument. So not only did they refuse to remove the commandments, they had the chance to equalize things a little and allow another denomination to put up something tasteful and they refused. It's not the inclusion of Christianity that troubles me as much as the exclusion of everything else. They would deny the eightfold path even though nothing in it goes against the commandments and they probably compliment each other quite nicely. They insist on special treatment for them to the detriment of others.
Yes, your position is essentially the same as mine.
In fact, that was one little compromise that I allowed with my chorus teacher. I allowed her one medley of "hymns" at the close of the "winter concert" that had to include multiple religions. She worked hard at it and came up with "songs of celebrations" that included a Jewish "song" and a "Muslim song". The toughest was coming up with a Buddhist song...as I recall she finally found one from Indonesia. So, like the flag Christmas tree, the concept was inclusion.
I don't think it is really realistic to expect all religions to be included in most things except things that are tailored specifically for that. The removal of religion from public and governmental entities is necessary in order to establish religious equality but then someone will complain about atheist favoritism. claims will be made about the big bang being example of the 'religion of science'. Some extreme zealotry in this theory helps cement that idea.
Yes, Christians are being attacked. They are tied into so many things, schools, government etc... People outside of christian faith have to still interact in school and government and they will often oppose the christian ideals being enforced upon them so they rebel against the christian authority. This rebellion is an attack of sorts.
Yes, US Christians are persecuted. Their ideals are embedded into schools and often oppose modern science and so they are ridiculed and hated for their constant disruption of science in schools.
They appose homosexuality and cast out other judgments toward abortion and so they are viewed as bigots, intolerant pricks, stupid and thoughtless, and sexist, misogynistic for their adherence to a male leader in the home, and women who's roles are reduced to child bearing and mothering. Christians are thus called names and persecuted for their beliefs, and hated on various levels.
Christian hate IS ripe in the US even though they are the majority. Many feel that anger and resentment is justified. I personally think any resentment is self destructive. I do not disagree with the notion that non-christians have been given the short end of the stick, because they have.
Well said, @Grayman, although I might modify by saying that activist Christians are being attacked. And well they should be, because with passivity they don't evolve.
To them it is. But, any religious group in any country would feel exactly the same way.
Interesting footnote, @Karasti. I was just reading about the Supreme Court building and it said this: "The Moses frieze depicts him holding the Ten Commandments, although only commandments six through ten, usually considered the more secular commands, are visible."
And this was interesting, also: (slightly edited) "In 1997, the Council on American-Islamic Relations asked for the image of Muhammad to be removed from the marble frieze of the façade. While appreciating that Muhammad was included in the court's pantheon of 18 prominent lawgivers of history, it was noted that Islam discourages depictions of Muhammad. They also objected that Muhammad was shown with a sword, which they thought reinforced long-held stereotypes of Muslims as intolerant conquerors. Chief Justice William Rehnquist rejected the request to sandblast Muhammad, saying the artwork “was intended only to recognize him, among many other lawgivers, as an important figure in the history of law; it is not intended as a form of idol worship”."
Bring back the lions!
Oops.
I would suggest that dharma enhances our understanding of the profound potential within the mystical, symbolic and gnostic aspects of Christianity. It is our Buddhist privelige to be better Christians than the current lion fodder ...
The power of Buddha compels you!
Seems appropriate to the discussion.
It would seem Gandhi was right
Talk about people who just don't get it!
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/09/living/colorado-bbq-restaurant-white-appreciation-day-feat/index.html
I saw that last night, @vinlyn. I find it so ironic that their sign says "celebrate all Americans!" which obviously the best way to show that is to exclude a bunch of them...
What burned me up about it, @Karasti, was that I saw something sorta similar years ago down in Winter Park, Florida. I was down visiting my mother and needed an oil change, and someone recommended a particular local gas station. When I got there, there was a sign that said, "15% discount for Christians". Needless to say, I went elsewhere.
Yeah...
When we were in FL last month I kept thinking "I could live here" but no, I couldn't. I just couldn't live in the south. Even if I could handle the hurricanes and the bugs, I couldn't handle the politics and the religious stuff. There's no bug spray for that.
It's interesting that people like that guy in CO with the restaurant truly can't see that what they are doing isn't celebratory...it's exclusionary.
But then again, I was thinking today a lot of stuff we celebrate can be that way and I'm revisiting my participation in our typical holidays, even mother's day. So many people hurt on that day. It just doesn't feel right to me to celebrate (or to force my family like that have to). They show me all year that they appreciate me, then they feel like they have to up the ante, so to speak, because Hallmark, the flower companies, and the calendar say so. I know just as many people who are hurting today as those who are celebrating the day and I just don't know if I want to be part of it at all anymore.
Not saying I can relate to what the BBQ guy is doing or anything like that. But it was a stark contrast for me to have those thoughts today and then see a guy who doesn't realize he's excluding people on purpose and thinks that is just fine. We wouldn't need black history month or hispanic heritage month if it weren't for white privilege already. Geez.
That's one of the things that I enjoyed so much about Thailand -- a sense of inclusion.
After all, "they" didn't know I had a real interest in Buddhism. To them I just looked like a typical American tourist with a camera. And yet, with few exceptions, no matter when I went...and over time I learned to cautiously walk into almost any non-private venue...it was always, "Oh, come in." One time visiting a temple in the north I was welcomed in to a ceremony, only later to find out it was funeral. Another time at one of the royal temples Bangkok they were ordaining monks. A lot of Thais, and me, were looking in the window watching the ceremony. One of the monks came out and got me and had me sit with the men who were about to be ordained. Of course, I also got invited into a wet market one time; that was a big tent where they cut up all sorts of meat; all that meat just hanging there with no refrigeration; but I was still welcomed right in (although I wish I hadn't been. On the other hand, at another temple in the north I was welcomed in and shown how to make "money trees" for monks. The only time I was rejected was when I walked into an outdoor Chinese garden, which turned out to be private property, and I was quickly shooed out of there; and while the Thais are perfectly comfortable with photograph inside temples, the Chinese are not at all. But you learn...and you learn BECAUSE of inclusion.
WTF???? Surely you jest......
@Bunks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Religious_Test_Clause#State_law
"Eight states do include language in their constitutions either requiring state officeholders to have particular religious beliefs or specifically protecting those who do."
Why did you do that instead of tell them you are a christian? It's not like they card you or anything.
There's a difference between a law being on the books and a law being enforced.
I wouldn't have gone either. Legality aside, it's in bad taste. I wouldn't go to a place that offered a % off for Buddhists, or women, or whatever either. Even as a college student I didn't agree with the ladies nights at bars. It made me feel like a commodity that they were selling. I just don't agree with that kind of preference given where others are excluded, regardless of what their reasons are. Give everyone the percent off and celebrate a sunny day, or whatever. Make everyone feel included and welcome. That's a much better spirit to run a business with.
Well, first of all it seemed that to not patronize them was the ethical thing to do.
Additionally, I kind of assume that they required some kind of ID from a church or something similar.
Is that the spirit of the age?
I don't think my local fish-and-chip shop would give me a discount for being a card-carrying Hinyanist.
Many Christian churches have membership cards, name tags, and even "yearbooks".
^^^ Yes. Church is big business here. Discounts are given here all the time...It's not new here.
Bumper stickers with your church name are encouraged. People down here have huge Murals on their cars and stuff....hahahah...I have to laugh sometimes...
I think my head would explode. I think I would feel a lot of pressure being so "different" than them in how I think and run my life. I'm different from people here, but there is a sizable group of people who think like me,so I am thankful for them. They include everyone, no questions asked, but a lot of the old time locals are like "We don't want to be included, heathen!" A lady in our sangha said we should do a "flash mob" meditation at a big craft festival we have here, but enough people were worried we'd get spat on or have things thrown at us that we decided not to do that, either, lol. Mostly dumb kids, but they were raised by parents who were dumb kids when I was young, so it just carries onward. Our town is still very majorly Christian and there is an obvious difference between all the families whose kids go to church together and such and those of us who don't do that. But it doesn't cause too much trouble most of the time.
I would have taken advantage of the 15% off for Christians, even though I don't care who thinks I'm a Christian or not. Businesses use most all of the holidays to bring in more business - it isn't necessarily in their hearts - even if it were.
I can see that viewpoint, but I didn't want any of my money going to them.
Ooooops! Wrong thread!! Carry on...! :
I'm still working on that...AFA...cutting out Chik fil A and Hobby Lobby...but the list keeps getting longer and longer, hahaha. When I'm with my BGF's....I admit to using the discount. One of My friends is a First Lady ( what they call a Pastor wife here).
Thankfully, this language is now null and void due to US Supreme Court decisions.
However, most of the states in question are IMO unlikely to ever remove the language unless they completely replace their existing constitutions, which happens, but not often.
I have never been in a Chik-Fil-A. I do very occasionally go into a Hobby Lobby if its a total last resort.
Of course, it's somewhat of a zero sum game. At least here in Colorado Springs, the Christians tend to go to Hobby Lobby first, and secondarily to Michael's Craft Store.
Spitting/throwing things do not indicate Christianity
~ John 8:7
Guess Ghandi was right
Wish you hadn't given that quotation.
It's absolutely on the nail, but keeps reminding me of Dave Allen......
Just a brief reality check, if I may, OP.
The only Christians who feel under attack in the US are the fundies, pretty much. The vast majority of Christians are completely unaware of whatever that is all about. They're quietly going to church and participating in church-sponsored activities (or not) as they've been doing for generations. We might call these the "Silent Majority" Christians, who believe religious talk is a private matter.
Also, in many hotels I've stayed in, there's a book on teachings of the Buddha alongside the Bible. Progress is being made.
Let's take a moment to appreciate that fact.
In the past, Christians have faced obstacles to their careers in public service, very much so. JFK was considered unelectable because of his Catholicism, and Jimmy Carter was considered a risk by some, because of his "born again" Christian status. Women were concerned he might not uphold Roe v. Wade.
Do courts still have people swear on the Bible? Not in any state where I've lived. That's an outmoded custom, and rightly so. Separation of church and state, you know. And in what way to "most" stores observe the Sabbath? None that I know of, unless you count the few that open at noon on Sundays, rather than at 9 a.m., like all the grocery stores and pharmacies.
The US is gradually secularizing and adapting to diversity. Let's be grateful for the progress that's been made, and support further efforts in this direction.
@Karasti
I do not think this really about Christians verses Buddhists. I have seen long term faith oriented Buddhist practitioners sidestep the most basic of Buddhist precepts when ever those precepts challenged a personal attachment, just as easily as I have seen any Christian do with their own commandments.
I think this is really just the consequences of what ever level of tribalism that any of us subscribe to.
I agree. I don't think it's so much us versus them in that sense. But more so us versus them in a local sense. This is a town very prideful of its history and if you cannot say your grandparents were here back before electricity and running water were common, then you aren't seen as a local. they divide as such. Most of the people I spend time with are not locals (for good reason, lol) and that is where the tribalism comes into play. It is more a worry about "outsiders" influencing their children than anything. Despite that fact that I am actually a local by their definitions, I spent 10 years away and traveled and learned more about the world and thus brought that back with me. They don't want their cocoon of ignorance penetrated by the outside world, basically. It's an issue here in many ways. So they no longer see me as a member. I married someone not from here, and brought him back and had children so I've been blackballed, pretty much, lol.
And yes, Buddhists most certainly ignore, or try to twist precepts or the eightfold path or whatever when they don't want to let go of things. There are things I cling to, but I usually know what they are and I keep an eye on them and investigate them as they come up. I'm sure there are things I miss but I try to stay aware. I try not to use Buddhism as a weapon, whereas it feels often like Christianity is used as a weapon. My issues are mine, and while I use Buddhism as a tool to work on my issues, I try not to give Buddhism a bad name by attaching my issues to it and flinging it out into the world like a slingshot.
@karasti
Not that I am recommending trying to change external conditions to address our internal difficulties
but
have you considered moving to somewhere where less.... adversarialÉ
Meard! Does anyone know how to switch a Hewlett-packard wireless keyboard from French mode to English.
Honestly, not really. Not right now. One day, perhaps, but we actually live in one of the more progressive states, and I do not want to live in a big city. Dealing with the locals can be frustrating but I mostly just stay away and live my own life. I'm thankful for the like-minded friends I have in such a small town. We made the choice to move closer to family when my older sons' dad died. They just needed (and still need) more support than we alone can give them. Most of my family is within an hour away, and having them has been invaluable. It also allows me to help care for my cantankerous grandmother, lol, so that she can stay in her home instead of being in the nursing home. It has it's plusses, most of the locals aren't one of them, lol. But for us, right now, it's worth the trade off. It's a quiet and beautiful area with much space "untouched" by man, undeveloped for the most part. Having that so accessible is priceless for me. One day, perhaps, we will move to a more liberal area, but to stay reasonably close to family it would mostly require a move to a bigger city which we don't want.
Oh the great Dave Allen. My tummy has never hurt so much as when I saw him live
(esp around 5:15 onwards
)
I advise you to google it... Don't know if this helps...
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-Systems-and-Software/How-do-I-get-the-keyboard-to-just-use-english-punctuation/td-p/1279635
(Do you know the 'joke' I was referring to...? Am saving watching the above video until a time when others won't be hovering to use the laptop....!)
watched. Loved. (Esp. 5.15 onwards...!
)