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Where to start

ajhayesajhayes Pema Jinpa Dorje Northern Michigan Veteran

I know there are a lot of threads on where to start, but, I still feel like my head is swimming with all of the new information that is coming at me. I am at a loss of what to do and where to look, despite having a large list of things to do and places to start.

I am trying to be mindful, trying to remember the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path... and, frankly, I'm overwhelmed. I have so many questions, that I can't even think of the first one to ask.

Is this normal? Thank you in advance for tolerating my verbal barrage.

anataman

Comments

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Welcome :)
    Very normal, yes. You have the rest of your life to figure it out, don't feel like you have to cram for it like a history final.
    Thich Nhat Hanh's "The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching" is excellent for beginners. It breaks down the foundation/basics, and then the 4 Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path and then goes farther. I found I had to put it down until I had a good grasp of what I read so far (backing it up at the time from online sources) and then move on to the next topic when I was ready.

    Meditation is a good place to start. It'll help prepare your mind to practice mindfulness through your day, and help you prepare to absorb what you are learning.

    I took my refuge vows 3.5 years ago, but I have been studying Buddhism for about 5 years now. It's still overwhelming :)

    111ajhayes
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    In my opinion, no. Because, within your mind you have the ability to allow it to overwhelm you, or the ability to relax and let things flow.

    A lot about Buddhism is just that -- taking control of a situation within you.

    Jeffreylobster
  • 111111 Explorer

    the beginner does not have control of the mind in that stage, @vinlyn . It is very normal to feel overwhelmed when beginning. there is alot of information to take in. @karasti suggested thich nhat hanh; that is a great placeto begin. he is a wise buddhist master, much more qualified to guide you through buddhism than any 'veteran' on this site.

  • KennethKenneth Veteran

    Welcome @ajhayes! I found "Open Heart, Clear Mind: An Introduction to the Buddha's Teachings" by Ven. Thubten Chodron to be helpful.

    As a newbie myself, I'll second @karasti on the importance of getting a good daily meditation practice started. This by itself has gradually changed my life.

    ajhayeslobster
  • ajhayesajhayes Pema Jinpa Dorje Northern Michigan Veteran

    Thank you all for the responses. Your input is very appreciated.

    Earthninjalobster
  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    @ajhayes

    You are right, there** is** endless info out there.

    Eventually just browsing over it all will start to feel too voyeuristic and then finding some way to make it more than an intellectual exercise will probably arise.

    This just means putting your boots on the ground towards an actual practice, where formally only your mentality was involved.

    Welcome to the fray.

    ajhayestibellussilverlobster
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    @111 said:
    the beginner does not have control of the mind in that stage, vinlyn . It is very normal to feel overwhelmed when beginning. there is alot of information to take in. karasti suggested thich nhat hanh; that is a great placeto begin. he is a wise buddhist master, much more qualified to guide you through buddhism than any 'veteran' on this site.

    You misunderstand what I'm saying. The typical person doesn't have to let themselves go fanatic about a new religion. They can slow down and be selective.

    lobster
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    The typical person doesn't have to let themselves go fanatic about a new religion.

    @vinlyn -- I'm not entirely sure what a "typical" person might be, but I think we can agree that there is often a honeymoon period in spiritual endeavor, a time when the newly-discovered landscape is purely wowsers.... all serious and pyrotechnic and enough to make a blind man weep. Like new love ... woo-hoo!!! ... where have you been all of my life???!!!

    Or perhaps I am overgeneralizing from my own experience and there are sane and savvy newcomers who can exercise a moderation I never could.

    My guess these days is that it really doesn't matter much if excitement spills over into 'fanaticism.' Assuming anyone finds and practice and then practices it, life has a way of ironing out the wrinkles.

    In Zen circles, there is the tale of some teacher (name forgotten) who was approached by the hall monitor during a sesshin or days-long retreat. The monitor (jiki-jitsu) complained to the teacher that a particular sesshin participant was sleeping during meditation periods. The monitor's view was that the fellow should be ejected. The teacher disagreed: "Nobody can sleep for seven days," he said mildly. Likewise, nobody can live forever on the swirly-giggly solemnities of first love.

    lobster
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @ajhayes "Start Where You Are" Well that's what Pema Chodron would tell you in her book by the same title....

    111
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    edited June 2015

    @ajhayes said:
    I am at a loss of what to do and where to look, despite having a large list of things to do and places to start.

    You have a list? Sheer luxury! ;)

    I am trying to be mindful, trying to remember the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path... and, frankly, I'm overwhelmed. I have so many questions, that I can't even think of the first one to ask.

    Oh must be time for a trite answer ... Keep 'can't think' mind ... that will do. :p

    Is this normal?

    Sure. The Dharma and the Sangha and all the Buddha's are here for the ride. Everything is fine. Now your quest ... where to start? ... I have a list too ... somewhere ... in fact I have a story:

    Ollie Octopus was sitting in the 'Very Full Lotus', which as you can imagine with eight limbs is very impressive. Lobster was leaning forward attentively perched on a rather interesting rock and waiting patiently for some helpful advice.

    "Make errors," advised Ollie Octopus as if selling a precious tentacle.

    "What?" Lobster slid off the rock; claws clicked. Landing on his back, many legs were twitching and a strange gurgling noise mixed with bubbles, was frothing from his mouth. He was also turning a pre-cooked red.

    "Make errors!" repeated the Octopus with great certainty.

    "But . . . but . . . " spluttered the Lobster.
    The Octopus leaned carefully forward. "How else will you be corrected? When corrected all is made right."
    The Lobster righted himself, his eyes bulged as he stroked his whiskers. Finally he said, "You mean we should make mistakes deliberately?"

    "Oh no!" said the Octopus laughing, "that comes naturally. We just have to admit our mistakes . . . "

    "But then we would look a fool . . . " said the Lobster looking around, ensuring no stray fish had seen the fall.

    "Did you just fall off that rock?" asked Ollie Octopus fixing a very large and unblinking eye on Lobster.
    "Well . . . " said Lobster crossing his claws and swishing his tail from side to side, whilst thinking of an explanation. Lobster realised he did not like to admit he had fallen. "I fell off the rock!" admitted the Lobster forlornly, his tail sadly down. A rather silly fish giggled as it swam past. Lobster no longer cared.

    "Thank you," said the Octopus beaming as if receiving all the treasures of Atlantis.
    "You want my mistake?" asked the Lobster incredulously.
    "What was my initial advice?" enquired the Octopus.
    Lobster thought hard, 'What was it again?'

    "Give up giving," remembered Lobster straining his little mind.
    "Well now I advise . . .," began the Octopus, "Take what is not given."
    "Stealing?" shouted the Lobster flicking his body into motion and waving his claws in consternation. He was turning a familiar shade of pinky red.

    The Octopus smiled.

    "Few will give up their burdens and attachments easily. This is why we find skillful means to remove their hindrances. Just as we deal with our own and learn about the nature of suffering. The reason we have to steal others karma is because we can own it, even though others may still be playing with it."

    Lobster though for a while and then smiling asked, "We have to steal their bad karma before it comes our way? So I guess it is in our best interests?"
    "Yes indeed," The Octopus assured Lobster and continued, "Perhaps you have heard of the 'Eight Verses on Thought Transformation'?"
    "I don't think so," said Lobster trying not to think of empty sardine cans and other trivia.
    "I may also recite the commentary by the Dalai Lama," offered the Octopus.
    "What is the Dalai Lama - is it a kind of squid?" enquired the Lobster, stroking his whiskers wisely as if he knew of such things.
    "Well it is a sort of squid that does not live in water," explained the Octopus.
    Lobster laughed.
    "Does not live in water! We have legends of such creatures but they are just stories told by mermaids."

    Lobster laughed some more and finally asked, "What are the 8 verses?"

    http://www.khandro.net/practice_8verses.htm
    http://www.dalailama.com/teachings/training-the-mind

    sova0student0
  • sovasova delocalized fractyllic harmonizing Veteran

    As far as priorities go:

    keep your eyes, ears, and heart open for a qualified master / teacher / guide / spiritual friend.

    Take sincere refuge in the Three Jewels (The Buddha, the Dharma = teachings, the Sangha = supreme assembly, or beings who have stabilized realization)

    ajhayeslobster
  • Will_BakerWill_Baker Vermont Veteran

    @ajhayes said:
    I know there are a lot of threads on where to start, but, I still feel like my head is swimming with all of the new information that is coming at me. I am at a loss of what to do and where to look, despite having a large list of things to do and places to start.

    I am trying to be mindful, trying to remember the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path... and, frankly, I'm overwhelmed. I have so many questions, that I can't even think of the first one to ask.

    Is this normal? Thank you in advance for tolerating my verbal barrage.

    -Relax, breathe and be curious...

    lobsterajhayesDavid
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    What is control?, and what is being in control about, really?

    ...\lol/...

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    @Will_Baker said:
    -Relax, breathe and be curious...

    Excellent advice. In essence this is the basis of a formal practice.

    When I first started, I would read the beginners books. Meditation for Dummies, that sort of thing. I would read the complex stuff but the beginners stuff again and again.

    My theory was and it applies to most fields, to write simply about a complex of ideas one has to understand and know it well.

    I could not meditate. I did it and it was calming but it was always an effort. Now it is at ease.

    @sova said:
    As far as priorities go:

    keep your eyes, ears, and heart open for a qualified master / teacher / guide / spiritual friend.

    Take sincere refuge in the Three Jewels (The Buddha, the Dharma = teachings, the Sangha = supreme assembly, or beings who have stabilized realization)

    Nothing complicated. Very simple. Find path, walk path. Walk together - easier. B)

    ajhayesanatamanDavid
  • bookwormbookworm U.S.A. Veteran

    Start with right view.

  • bookwormbookworm U.S.A. Veteran

    Contemplate anatta.

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    @ajhayes said:

    Is this normal? Thank you in advance for tolerating my verbal barrage.

    Wot no questions? Your verbal barrage is obviously internal. Good plan! About now you are probably wondering what you have got yourself into ... LOL

    As a boddhisatva [just a hobby] I know exactly, in an imprecise sort of way, what to listen to and more importantly what not to hear.

    Listen to the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. Everything is fine. Off to do some kind stuff [another hobby] ... ;)

    ajhayes
  • ajhayesajhayes Pema Jinpa Dorje Northern Michigan Veteran

    The posts that I've seen thus far have given me a lot to work on. Thank you all for your input

  • @ajhayes said:
    I know there are a lot of threads on where to start, but, I still feel like my head is swimming with all of the new information that is coming at me. I am at a loss of what to do and where to look, despite having a large list of things to do and places to start.

    I am trying to be mindful, trying to remember the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path... and, frankly, I'm overwhelmed. I have so many questions, that I can't even think of the first one to ask.

    Is this normal? Thank you in advance for tolerating my verbal barrage.

    I think the best way is to just go where you are drawn to. I don't think you need to work on the whole Eightfold Path immediately. For example, you might feel a strong need to work on your speech, for whatever reasons. I've found that what interests me in these matters is almost a compass for where I need to grow.

    federicalobsterajhayes
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Yes, I agree. I think people are confused about where to start because there's no manual.
    Seriously, The Bible begins 'In the beginning was the word..." and you go on from there.
    Virtually every major religion, has a 'textbook' for reference.
    Sure, we have the Pali Canon, but even then....Ohiiii..... :p

    Many are advised to stick to the basics of the Buddha's First Sermon in Deer Park, where he expounded the 4 and the 8 to his previous companions, who ultimately became his first 'disciples'.

    The 4 are actually far more complex than they first appear... We have had many discussions on the forum relating to dukkha, what it exactly means, how it exactly affects us and how exactly we deal with it, face it, transcend it and let it go....
    And I don't think we're done with the discussions yet.

    By comparison, the Eightfold path is actually less complicated.
    It hinges on personal evaluation, perception and implementation, but each factor is pretty clear-cut: Do 'whichever one it is' with Mindfulness, skill and Compassion.

    So I personally think 'Beginning' is best done by 'watching', or 'observing'.

    Your Thoughts, your Words and your Actions.

    Evaluate them and adjust accordingly.
    Then, other things will arise, reveal themselves and bode further investigation....

    lobstersilverajhayes
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