Desire for security

genie

The mind is always seeking security, both physical and psychological. So when buddha spoke of ending desire or craving, he basically meant the desire for psychological stuff like meditation experiences, peace, joy, etc. Desire for physical stuff is inevitable - since we evolved from animals.

So r we making a mistake trying too hard at psychological stuff when thats only adding to the misery? One need only look at a certain poster's threads here to get an idea - the constant stress, the obsession (with this meditationor that), is killing them.

So perhaps the desire for psychological security must be given up? Thats perhaps why the concept of emptiness has become important in bhddhism - to seek security in nothing.

DairyLama

Meditation and mindfulness can be very challenging to our comfortable assumptions and need for certainty...which is sort of the point.

karasti

Everyone is at a different point in practice. It's simply not necessary to compare and say things like "it's so obvious certain posters are stressed and obsessed." Nothing is obvious when you are reading between the lines on internet posts. Not to mention there are often language and cultural barriers as well. There are people here from around the world.

I don't recall where Buddha specified that he was mostly talking about desire for psychological things rather than physical. Where did you see that? Desire at it's root is the problem (as I understand it) not just desire for some things, no matter what our biological drives are.

Bunks

@genie said:
since we evolved from animals.

I am curious - When did we stop being animals?

federica

@genie said:
The mind is always seeking security, both physical and psychological. So when buddha spoke of ending desire or craving, he basically meant the desire for psychological stuff like meditation experiences, peace, joy, etc. Desire for physical stuff is inevitable - since we evolved from animals.

Thanks for providing a reference/link/quote....
I have actually already advised you that such an action is necessary, if you're going to make claims about 'what the Buddha 'basically meant'...

federica

@karasti said:
Everyone is at a different point in practice. It's simply not necessary to compare and say things like "it's so obvious certain posters are stressed and obsessed." Nothing is obvious when you are reading between the lines on internet posts. Not to mention there are often language and cultural barriers as well. There are people here from around the world.

Yes, actually, I might add that it's extremely bad form to hold up another poster as an example, when first of all you have not sought their permission and when secondly, your own education in Buddhism is somewhat lacking in accuracy.

Buddhadragon

@genie said:
The mind is always seeking security, both physical and psychological. So when buddha spoke of ending desire or craving, he basically meant the desire for psychological stuff like meditation experiences, peace, joy, etc. Desire for physical stuff is inevitable - since we evolved from animals.

So r we making a mistake trying too hard at psychological stuff when thats only adding to the misery? One need only look at a certain poster's threads here to get an idea - the constant stress, the obsession (with this meditationor that), is killing them.

So perhaps the desire for psychological security must be given up? Thats perhaps why the concept of emptiness has become important in bhddhism - to seek security in nothing.

You really have a knack for twisting the Buddha's teachings the wrong way, @genie.

federica

And you clearly have absolutely no idea what is meant by 'Emptiness'. Because it's most certainly not 'nothing'....

Shoshin

@genie said:
So perhaps the desire for psychological security must be given up?

@genie if what you mean by psychological security to mean the psycho-physical self , ie the strong sense of a self (the continually self-generating psycho-physical karmic driven phenomenon) , then you're right... this false sense of psychological security (which is also in a constant state of flux) that one strives for needs to be let go of...and therein lies the paradox of the non-self phenomenon....The sense of self's aversion & desire towards the Buddhadharma ....

But then again this might not be what you are meaning, so take it with a pinch of salt...

namarupa

Well if I was able to grasp any of it, it would be wealth I believe. Not being able to grasp any might be a factor. Oops thought this was the attachment thread. Sorry please delete this post

genkaku

One thing nice about Buddhism is that it is most assuredly NOT just another TED talk. If it were all about "healing" and "opening" and "sharing" and "letting go" and "compassion topped with whipped cream and a cherry" and "psychological repose" or any other sweetened gimcrack ... well, aside from boring us to tears, it simply wouldn't work.

What does anyone grow into in their Buddhist practice? Isn't it simply a growing experience base which really needs no elevation or genuflection.

Experience is what you know.
What you know is no big deal unless you are still in some doubt.
It may make life easier, but it's simply not a big deal ...
So ... get on with your life.

TED talking may be fun. Practice is probably more ... uhhh... practical.

genie

@Bunks said:

I know, right? I was being polite.

pegembara

@genie said:

So perhaps the desire for psychological security must be given up? Thats perhaps why the concept of emptiness has become important in bhddhism - to seek security in nothing.

All things are impermanent and to seek permanent security in them is a futile exercise. These things run the whole gamut, physical and psychological. That doesn't mean that one cannot enjoy the beauty in flowers even though they don't last.

The cherry blossom season is short and the petals fall after about a week. This transience of life (utsuroi) expresses mujō (impermanence). Everything in the world is all transient in both figure and essence, and any entity cannot keep its form, even for a moment. It is said that the Japanese view of nature is based on impermanence, one of the essential doctrines in Buddhism. When a flower falls and a life ends, Japanese people find utsuroi (transience) there, and love and cherish precious life because it is short, transient and impermanent.

"A flower falls, even though we love it; and a weed grows, even though we do not love it." - Dogen

lobster

@genie said:
So perhaps the desire for psychological security must be given up? Thats perhaps why the concept of emptiness has become important in bhddhism - to seek security in nothing.

Indeed ... however it is not quite like that.
Psychological certainty or stability is important. Equanimity if you will. This 'security' in the experience of the transitory comes about most clearly in regular meditation, which is more important than intellectual pondering - useful as that is.

So we might say we are certain of nothing but more importantly we know and experience the ground in which we have being. These terms are experiential for meditators but for those empty of this experience, they may mean nothing ...

DairyLama

@pegembara said:> "A flower falls, even though we love it; and a weed grows, even though we do not love it." - Dogen

" A weed is just a flower in the wrong place."

DairyLama

@Bunks said:I am curious - When did we stop being animals?

With the advent of English gentlemen of course.

Will_Baker

@genie said:
The mind is always seeking security, both physical and psychological. So when buddha spoke of ending desire or craving, he basically meant the desire for psychological stuff like meditation experiences, peace, joy, etc. Desire for physical stuff is inevitable - since we evolved from animals.

So r we making a mistake trying too hard at psychological stuff when thats only adding to the misery? One need only look at a certain poster's threads here to get an idea - the constant stress, the obsession (with this meditationor that), is killing them.

So perhaps the desire for psychological security must be given up? Thats perhaps why the concept of emptiness has become important in bhddhism - to seek security in nothing.

-Two points: phenomena, regarded on their own are "empty." This is due to the fact that all phenomena are related, are connected manifestations of aspects the same thing. But phenomena, taken together represent the second king of Emptiness; that everything is stardust, boundless, vast and humbling... Empty. This is the capital E sort of empty :-)

David

@genie said:
The mind is always seeking security, both physical and psychological. So when buddha spoke of ending desire or craving, he basically meant the desire for psychological stuff like meditation experiences, peace, joy, etc. Desire for physical stuff is inevitable - since we evolved from animals.

So r we making a mistake trying too hard at psychological stuff when thats only adding to the misery? One need only look at a certain poster's threads here to get an idea - the constant stress, the obsession (with this meditationor that), is killing them.

So perhaps the desire for psychological security must be given up? Thats perhaps why the concept of emptiness has become important in bhddhism - to seek security in nothing.

Understanding emptiness is not seeking security in nothing.

When I hear this I flashback to the King from Eric the Viking. When his kingdom was being destroyed he told his people to relax because this isn't really happening. They mostly all died of course.

Our emptiness is our potential to change for better or for worse depending on our attachments.

We have always been in a state of change and that is what it is to be empty because there is no original form. Original form as far as I can tell is precisely the potential for change.

There may be a kind of security that comes with having no attachments but if we seek security in nothing we will never reach it except through delusion.