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In remembrance...

for all their sacrifices, let us repay our veterans by triggering their PTSD with non-stop fireworks.

It was taking up too much headspace; posting it was the delete button for me.

DavidajhayesRowan1980

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Great point, well-presented.....

    Are we sure that's what happens, though?
    Really, I'm asking....

    Is it an item of research that fireworks can trigger PTSD reactions in veterans?

    It's a very interesting point, I might add.
    Thanks for sharing.... :)

  • yagryagr Veteran

    @federica said:

    Are we sure that's what happens, though?
    Really, I'm asking....

    Is it an item of research that fireworks can trigger PTSD reactions in veterans?

    I've spoken to every combat vet who has my number today. One called from under his bed. Four out of five were holding a gun when they called. I am one as well you may remember. I've never looked for research, never had to. :)

    Shoshin
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Well that would do it for me.... On an unrelated subject, but in similar response, there's a specific food regime that I adhere to, which so called dietary experts and Health representatives are calling a 'fad', but it works damn well for me, and I know it works extremely well for countless others too. So that's all the proof I need that for me, it isn't a fad.

    personal experience is proof enough.

    Thanks yagr.
    Hope today (whatever your time-zone) finds both you and your wonderful wife, well.

    lobsteryagrSteve_B
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @yagr said:
    One called from under his bed. Four out of five were holding a gun when they called.

    <3<3<3 {{{ Big Hug }}} <3<3<3

    yagrmmo
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited July 2015

    @yagr said: I've spoken to every combat vet who has my number today. One called from under his bed. Four out of five were holding a gun when they called.

    I can well imagine that. I'm not a veteran, but I used to be a machine gunner in the Army Reserve. Hearing a road drill always reminds me of that time, the sound they make is very similar to a machine gun

    yagr
  • gracklegrackle Veteran

    Fortunately there was a good deal of rainfall last evening so the patriots could not raise as much hell as they like to do. This veteran thanks mother nature for the kind interruption.

    yagr
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    It is a difficult time, for combat vets and even for dogs and other pets. But what is the best answer? I personally am not a big fireworks person. We live next door to a shooting range so we hear constant gunfire and even small cannons, we don't give it a second thought. When I go running, people are shooting guns 20 yards from me. Yet when our city has an emergency like a power line down, or a car accident or fire, the city puts the emergency siren to go. In other cities I lived in, that siren is used only for extreme emergencies-tornadoes and flash flooding mostly. So when I hear it, I panic and feel like I need to take cover. That conditioning is interesting, and it happens so fast. I don't think fireworks are going anywhere, is there another solution? @Yagr have you found meditation or anything else to have helped you? Obviously, everyone isn't going to start meditating any more than they are going to give up fire works. It just makes me wonder what can be done, if anything, that can appease both groups? Do fireworks have similar impacts on people who live in dangerous neighborhoods, I wonder? For me, I never had conditioning that made gun noises=danger. Obviously, for most people that is not the case. So it makes me wonder about a lot of things! Thanks for the reminder, @yagr.

    yagr
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    We live next door to a shooting range so we hear constant gunfire and even small cannons, we don't give it a second thought.

    Que? Ay curumba! Extraordinary, to me that would be living on the outskirts of hell ... mind you the picnic hell realms would be closer ...

    I wonder if there is room under the bed for a cructacean?

    yagr
  • gracklegrackle Veteran

    My experience with PTSD is that it continues with us but becomes manageable. To the point that it recedes to a distant corner of our memories. But every veteran will handle it somewhat differently. I see this often at the VA clinic where over the years some vets make remarkable adjustments. Others remain caught in time. Having knowledge of what can trigger unacceptable actions became for me a path to freedom.

    Vastmindyagr
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    @yagr maybe you should consider offering your techniques as a class or something :) I am glad they have worked so well for you.

    @lobster, I grew up in this same house, so it is what I have known. I imagine it is pretty disturbing for people who move here especially from out of the general area. It is mostly hunting rifles, an isn't abnormal to see teenagers and others walking down the street with their guns to go to the range to practice. When I was in 7th grade (about 1988 or so) we took gun safety training as part of our school curriculum and brought our rifles to school. We took them on the bus and left them in our lockers. Seems so crazy now. Our school has a gun range in the basement even! Anyhow, we do have combat vets in our area, and I wonder what they think of it or because it's such a part of daily life if they are conditioned to it as well. I hope they do not suffer greatly because of it.

    yagrlobster
  • Steve_BSteve_B Veteran

    Where does the entity PTSD live? Does it live in the soul of the victim, or does it live in the inadvertent trigger? Treat it where it lives.

    yagr
  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran

    As some might remember, last year we had some pranksters throw a whole packet of fireworks at our front door. By now, I forgot all about it, but after a huge BBQ, Kofi and I were on our way home to watch sky fireworks ( theres a mega church close by that spends a ton on them)...and He says to me " Mom, that noise" After a couple of minutes of listening to him, I realized it still stuck with him. That night we thought the house was being shot up. It kept us up several nights. We have shootings in the area/city too often lately, but that night was right at the front door.
    I never even thought about the long term effect on any of the children.
    I asked him if he still wanted to go watch fireworks, and he says " oh yes....Mommy I have to go through it to get over it, right?" You can tell his my kid, hahaha. Anyway, we ended up having a total ball all day, but I thought of this post when he brought up he was still freaked out by last years fiasco.

    yagrlobsterShoshin
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Amazing, the contrast between @karasti, @Vastmind, @yagr and my response to fireworks. We all have different experiences and responses ...

    It is why mindfulness and contemplation (of our self) is of such value. Add the companionship of others experience and we have a Middle Way.

    What hopefully is of value, is learning from the Sangha-Self and in typical ripple Mahayana formation, spreading the [insert wisdom/compassion quality of choice] to the newer generations/arisings ...

    yagr
  • yagryagr Veteran

    @federica said:
    On an unrelated subject, but in similar response, there's a specific food regime that I adhere to, which so called dietary experts and Health representatives are calling a 'fad', but it works damn well for me,

    But Federica...you're perfect already. Didn't you know?

  • robotrobot Veteran

    An experience I had with fireworks at Wat Tham Suea in Thailand left me stunned and a little confused.
    I was sitting on a bench facing a statue of Avalokiteshvara listening to some recorded chanting. Quite peaceful. Behind me was a small structure that looked like a pagoda maybe 10 feet tall. I didn't think anything of it or suspect it's terrifying purpose.
    Suddenly a horrific racket with smoke and flaming paper that nearly set my hair on fire erupted from it. I leaped to my feet and scrambled to get away from it.
    As it turns out, a worshiper can buy a whole string of what we used to call m80's and let them off without warning.
    It's deafening and dangerous and I can't understand what it's purpose is in such a peaceful setting.

    yagr
  • silversilver In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. USA, Left coast. Veteran

    I think they still call them m80's. Definitely deafening and can give you a heart attack! Someone set off a few of them over the weekend here. Sounds insane, @robot. O.o

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Moderator note:
    Just as an aside, @yagr 's big move to the ranch happens imminently, so he won't be around much at all while the big re-location and new job begins.
    So nobody panic.
    Like Arnie.... he will be returning.... ;)

    yagrKundolobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @robot said:

    Suddenly a horrific racket with smoke and flaming paper that nearly set my hair on fire erupted from it. I leaped to my feet and scrambled to get away from it.

    One small leap for robotkind, one giant leap for awakening Buddhas ...

    I wonder if Pagodas make good and ornate rockets? :dizzy:

    Invincible_summer
  • I am a Viet Nam vet. Fireworks can and will set off a PTSD. When the locals set off their ground and air bursts all around, I had to go outside to visually confirm the fireworks as it sounded too much like the other stuff and I felt myself start to slip a little. The visual countered that slip. Even at that, a loud burst had me looking for cover for just a moment. There are lots of triggers for PTSD firing off, loud pops and booms are just a couple of obvious ones...

    In truth, if it were not for my Buddhist practice, I would not have overcome my PTSD. At that time, there were no places or people to go to, self-help was the only road to travel. My practice enabled me to set up and follow a self healing process.

    Today, I do not advise self-help for PTSD.
    One good source for the Iraq/Afgan war vets in the US is a non-profit (read that free for you and your family) called "The Soldiers Project". There are others as well.
    The VA now has programs for all US vets suffering from PTSD and head trauma, etc.

    War is the ultimate act of terrorism. It denies the humanity of "friend" and "enemy" alike.
    It is terrorism on a massive scale. And the wounds and scars do not easily heal.

    To those who have been there and come back, welcome home! Let your brothers and sisters embrace you with their healing hearts. May your days be peaceful and your nights calm. May you open your hearts that the healing light may enter and warm you to bring you peace. May your light grow and glow brightly.

    For those who did not come back, my prayers - every day.

    lobsterWalkerVastmind
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Thanks for sharing @Lionduck

    If I ever run a temple without blowing it up as a teaching in impermenance (please don't try this at home boys and gals) vets and animals would be welcome.

    I would have signs eg. 'Do not set fire to the monks' And we would have special chairs at the back to keep them from being all lotusy

    My temple ideas are a little wild ... monks on a carousel, like for airport luggage, would enable one to find a teaching appropriate to ones disposition ...

    ... and now back to the memories ... [Lobster bows tendrils]

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    @lobster said:> If I ever run a temple without blowing it up as a teaching in impermenance (please don't try this at home boys and gals) vets and animals would be welcome.

    I would have comfy chairs and widescreen TVs, also eating ice-cream mindfully sessions.
    Also lots of cats. ;)

    lobsterWalker
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Ice cream and comfy chairs and widescreen granted, no dangers there [ahem]
    ... But Cats?

    Nan Ch'uan Cuts the Cat in Two
    Nan Ch'uan saw the monks of the eastern and western halls fighting over a cat. He seized the cat and told the monks: 'If any of you say a good word, you can save the cat.' No one answered. So Nan Ch'uan boldly cut the cat in two pieces.
    That evening Chao Chou returned and Nan Ch'uan told him about this. Chao Chou removed his sandals and, placing them on his head, walked out.
    Nan Ch'uan said: "If you had been there, you could have saved the cat."

    We might have cats if anyone can answer if cats have Dogen Nature?
    [Who said Meow?]

    http://the-wanderling.com/cuttingcat.html

  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited July 2015

    @Lobster

    Nan Ch'uan's cat shits in his sandals. The untold back story

    Two of Nan Ch'uan's cats were arguing over the ownership of a monk.
    The main temple cat seeing this argument, challenged all cats to the supreme koan of aloofness to determine who could own a monk.
    With such an answerless koan and no living winner possible, many monks still remain ownerless to this very day.

    This same koan can sometimes be offered to gullible children when parents have exhausted their patience reserves.

    No monks were forced into sandal headwear in the production of this koan.

    ShoshinDairyLamasilver
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