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What is mind in Buddhism?
DairyLama
Veteran Veteran
An open question.
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Comments
My own personal interpretation is infinite spatial awareness confined to the size of a pinhead; calm abiding, the WuJi of everything, all-encompassing, contained and liberated....
You know what the higher mind is from the suttas.
but
what is mind?
where is mind?
For an open mind no doubt
I always thought it was just you ... except of course when it is me ... in which case it is you ....something like that
"What is mind in Buddhism?"
"Knowing"
Mind is in Buddhism the core of the Buddha Dhamma / Dharma
Buddhism is mainly Mind orientated.
Everything is contained in the Mind
Mind and mind is understood or not
In Buddhism is NOT knowing the Mind of Enlightenment, seen as ignorance / Avidya / Ma Rigpa. It is the first cause of suffering and te running around in the 6 realms called Samsara.
But this Mind of Enlightenment is on different ways understood.
That is because the level of understanding can be:
The reason would be karma , why we have different levels of understanding about this Mind of Enlightenment which is equal to Buddhahood.
So therefore we have different Buddhist Traditions which do explain Enlightenment according their related philosophy.
These Buddhist Traditions can be divided into;
or
Each above mentioned Tradition has so its practice to reach Enlightenment and they can be also seen as slow, fast and super fast or the shortcut.
Therefore we can explain Mind of Enlightenment NOT in one way / Path here.
There would also be some Buddhists who would defend their position as highest
But what we could do is to make / wave a thread throgh all the Buddist Traditions which is based on synchronisation or similarities.
For instance the ethics of the 10 Commands are everywhere in Buddhism accepted as emancipation of the Ego Mind, Because if a Buddhist does apply these 10 Commands it will diminish the Ego Mind and open more the Mind of Enlightenment.
So there are different methods to realise this Mind of Enlightenment;
-Different words and understandings about Emptiness, which is the very base of the Mind of - Enlightenment as well the Mind of karma.
-Different methods to reach Buddhahood.
Therefore we can make a try here but we should not expect here a certain right for our vision / position etc. , this because we all represent here a method or philosophy from the Buddha(s). The Buddha gave us 84,000 methods to understand Mind and mind.
Best wishes
KY
Best wishes
KY
as far as i remember, as per Buddha's teachings - mind is 6th sense-organ (apart from the other 5 sense-organs) and thought its sense-object and mind consciousness its consciousness (vinana - in the 5 aggregates).
as far as i remember, as per Yoga Sutras of Patanjali in Hinduism, mind is composed of 4 parts - manas (which gets/drives the other 5 sense organs), citta - memory, asmita - ego and buddhi - intellect.
The mind is the truth. The truth is all within the mind. The mind is in you. You are the mind. So you are the truth as well. Therefore, look no further for the truth is not out there but in here within your mind. Our mind creates truths. All phenomenal events are created truths based on the respective mind. The mind is nothing but merely consciousness in individuality.
"In general, the mind can be defined as an entity that has the nature of mere experience, that is, "clarity and knowing." It is the knowing nature, or agency, that is called mind, and this is non-material. But within the category of mind there are also gross levels, such as our sensory perceptions, which cannot function or even come into being without depending on physical organs like our senses. And within the category of the sixth consciousness, the mental consciousness, there are various divisions, or types of mental consciousness that are heavily dependent upon the physiological basis, our brain, for their arising. These types of mind cannot be understood in isolation from their physiological bases."
http://www.lamayeshe.com/article/what-mind
Ultimately.... Mind = consciousness = knowing
Conventionally ...Mind = psychological phenomenon
Indeed.
The Mind in this sense encompasses the Heart, Body and Being. It Includes sentient beings and our widening experience.
It resides still in the Still and the ferment.
Here is how the 'All is Mind' Yogacara develop the mind/awareness:
The first stage is called "provisioning" (sambhārāvasthā) since this is the stage at which one collects and stocks up on "provisions" for the journey. These provisions primarily consist of orienting oneself toward the pursuit of the path and developing the proper character, attitude and resolve to accomplish it. It begins the moment the aspiration for enlightenment arises (bodhicitta).
The next stage is the "experimental" stage (prayogāvasthā), in which one begins to experiment with correct Buddhist theories and practices, learning which work and which don't, which are true and which are not. One begins to suppress the grasper-grasped relation and begins to study carefully the relation between things, language, and cognition.
After honing one's discipline, one eventually enters the third stage, "deepening understanding" (prativedhāvasthā). Some texts refer to this as the Path of Corrective Vision (darśana-mārga). This stage ends once one has acquired some insight in nonconceptual cognition.
Nonconceptual cognition deepens in the next stage, the Path of Cultivation (bhāvanā-mārga). The grasper-grasped relation is utterly eliminated as are all cognitive obstructions. This path culminates in the Overturning of the Basis, or enlightenment.
In the "final stage" (niṣṭhāvasthā), one abides in Unexcelled Complete Enlightenment and engages the world through the five immediate cognitions (see above). All one's activities and cognitions at this stage are "post-realization." As a Mahāyānist, from the first stage one has been devoting oneself not only to one's own attainment of enlightenment, but to the attainment of enlightenment by all sentient beings. In this stage that becomes one's sole concern.
http://www.acmuller.net/yogacara/articles/intro.html
"The mind is a cathedral filled with petty parishioners."
Yes [lobster hangs head in shame]
Hinayana Yorkshireman 1: We used to dream of petty parishioners. All we had was an empty font and a crypt full of junk.
Zen Yorkshireman 2: Well of course we had it tough ... etc ...
I visualise mind as a space where thoughts arise, and I imagine it's located "in" my head, ( but I think that's just because most of the sense organs are there ). It seems like this space can very in size.
But what's the difference between mind and consciousness?
the awareness in which all of this takes place
I see the mind as pure awareness and the nervous system as the interface between that awareness and the physical world.
Consciousness, as in "he lost consciousness as a result of a hit to the head", seems to be measurable from the outside and would therefore involve the nervous system.
Traditionally in Buddhism there are 6 aspects of consciousness, one for each of the physical senses and one for the mind.
"Mind" is treated as another sense-base, so thoughts would be a sense-object for mind-consciousness, in much the same way that sounds are a sense-object for ear-consciousness.
Without mind we would be asking the question.
What do Buddhas know?
There is the conditioned and the unconditioned.
This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress...
....... there is knowledge that he is liberated. He understands: 'Birth is exhausted, the holy life has been lived out, what can be done is done, of this there is no more beyond.'"
There is that dimension, monks, where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor staying; neither passing away nor arising: unestablished, unevolving, without support [mental object].
Craving is pierced in one who knows;
For one who sees, there is nothing.
All that arises passes away and is not self.
Well we have finally like mentioned before, 2 Minds.
The Mind we all know is our ego mind which likes and dislikes and does know by the learned names regarding objects. So i call this the mind of karma or the mind of reincarnation. This Mind collects karma like a magnet attracts iron. This mind can be ignorant or partly ignorant about its illusionary appearance(s).
So this karma mind rides on conciousness and thoughts and is illusion (there is no self)
Then we have the Mind of Enlightenment which is the contrary of the mind of karma.
This mind has no conciousness , karma, dualisms and thoughts.
So one mind has conciousness and thoughts, the other Mind of Enlightenment does not has this all.
Best wishes
KY
Mind (of karma) , is finally the boss of the conciousness(es)
This mind of karma functions by memorisation which is stored in the Alaya store conciousness. This mind of karma is also thoughts based.
So every experience of the Mind is stored and the reflections are done by thoughts.
The thought is always the fore runner of the action.
A bad thought is in Buddhism also bad karma not only the execution of thoughts.
Then thoughts can be loaded with emotions. Then mind is unhappy.
Best wishes
KY.
Thought the mind of karma could be seen as the boss / general of the consciousnesses we have.
Then we have the general counting for sentient beigs Mind of Enlightenment.
It is this encompassing of the Sugatagarbha which encompasses the sentient beings with Wisdom and Conpassion, but which is covered by the illusionary actions of the boss of the consciousnesses.
Well a very famous method or practice done in all the 5 Tibetan Buddhist Tradions is the searching for the Mind. The result is one cannot find it. So this mind would be therefore empty.
Best wishes
KY
No consciousness? How can the enlightened mind be aware of anything then? Or are you talking about a particular type of consciousness?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddha-nature#Awakened_Mind
I'm not convinced either by your idea of two minds, I think it's more sensible to say that there is one mind with different facets or qualities.
Enlightened Mind is self Aware. That does mean that if you are in a certain State of Meditation, when there are no thoughts and clinging to thoughts, there suddenly comes up some visions which do not come from outside. Well this State has nothing do do with a conciousness and the related mind of that conciousness.
That will mean that if one opens his normal conciousness with that specific mind (as boss) one is out of the afore mentioned State of (that) Mind.
So that means we have two kind of experiences which is different caused and different experienced (by the related Minds).
If there would be one Mind and it would be the Mind of Enlightenment then everybody would be a living body. I guess the most of us are sleeping Buddhas.
If there would be only the mind of karma functioning then Buddhahood is not possible to obtain.
So for me logic a sentient being has 2 minds. And it is only possible over this body with this mind of karma, to reach that other Mind which is not outside us or external.
When one would search for the Buddha outside, one will nnever find him ( with the mind of conciousness).
Best wishes
KY
Sorry but this isn't making any sense. Awareness is consciousness, isn't it? You mention "normal consciousness", so I assume you're talking about different types of consciousness or something?
I don't understand your objection to the idea that Buddha Nature / the Deathless / the unconditioned is an inherent aspect of mind that we develop with practice.
Maybe you could go back a step and give a simple definition of how mind is viewed in your tradition?
No awareness is not conciousness. Seeing with the eyes is related to conciousness.
Spiritual seeing is not done with the senses........
Well if we do not make developments regarding the obtaining of Buddhahood then it would be senseless to obtain Buddhahood. It also could mean we are already Buddha.
From one side we are not Buddha but from the other side we have the POTENTIAL to become Buddha.
Well this potential energy etc. that is called relative Bodhi Citta. It is this mental force that brings oneself , step by step, closer to Buddhahood.
Absolute Bodhi Citta is the recognition / knowing / Awareness, that the inherent Mind is already Enlightened and this is immediately experienced with some special meditation practice.
Best wishes
KY
What is "spiritual seeing"? Do you mean prajna?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prajñā_(Buddhism)
Please note that this is a pan-Buddhist forum so the explanation in your tradition might not be understood or shared by others.
Spiritual seeing is the ability to be Aware of one`s Enlightened Mind.
That does happen in the sense of experiencing this Mind.
In this State of Mind is everything self arising and there is not spoken of a subject or watcher here. This because in this State there is no duality possible, like subject and object.
Prajna is Wisdom and can be also mean, Wisdom by learning / pratice of Vipassana , or we have the self emanating Wisdom experienced in that special mental "meditative" State which is without object and subject functioning.
All in all we can experience dualistic states and non dualistic States, both have their specific "bodies".
Best wishes
KY
Mind is the sixth sense base, namely the brain
it is like other five sense bases, eye, ear, nose, tongue, and body
(some says mind is heart for the moment we can take either heart or brain as our mind, until we get cleare understanding of it through meditation)
a thought (form) comes into mind (form) mind consciousness arises and 'remembering' or 'thinking' happens (thinnang sangathi passo)
because 'we' are deluded we cling to the 'thing' that remember or the 'thinking', we create our samsara
consciousness is the defiled mind, defiled with greed, hate and delusion
remember the first two versus in Dhamma-pada?
Here they are:
1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.
In Dzogchen, a fundamental point of practice is to distinguish rigpa from sems (citta, (grasping) mind).
According to the 14th Dalai Lama, "sems is the mind which is temporarily obscured and distorted by thoughts based upon the dualistic perceptions of subject and object.
Rigpa is pure awareness free from such distortions.
Cittata, the nature of mind, is the inseparable unity of awareness and emptiness, or clarity and emptiness, which is the basis for all the ordinary perceptions, thoughts and emotions of the ordinary mind.
Therefore one can speak in Buddhism of 2 Minds.
To explain with the dualistic mind the other mind or Rigpa, that is the difficulty, in case Rigpa is never experienced.
KY
A quote I wrote down from a book about Tibetan Buddhism (source not written down):
"Mind is a completely formless continuum that is an entity in itself, but quite separate and distinct from body and brain. It is not a byproduct of physical processes.
The continuum is literally boundless -- it has neither a beginning nor an end. All the imprints of all that you do (your karma) are on your subtle mind."
Really, this is a little too vague for me. It lies outside my own realm of direct experience, so I do not try to grasp it. But what I DO get out of this definition (and the reason I wrote it down), is to remind myself that mind is NOT intellect.
Intellect and awareness are two separate and distinct things. Buddhism is about awareness, and that is why you cannot understand Buddhism with intellect, nor by listening to or reading words. I once heard somewhere some source saying that enlightenment lies in the spaces BETWEEN our thoughts, and that rather appeals to me. Because we are most aware when our mental thoughts are still.
I guess I don't have an answer, so much as just some musings about the topic.
Intellect does know and awareness also knows in the form of recognition.
The State of Awareness (Rigpa) recognises its innate Nature.
It is indeed self recognising this State and it does this without the intervention of the intellect or conciousness.
Further can one by learning the meaning of the words (Sutras etc.) gain an understanding about which one can meditate. Then the meaning is very clear which in turn changes into Wisdom. This Wisdom is not coming from outside it is the self emerging Wisdom which was propelled /awakened, by the afore mentioned "learning".
That means one can "know" without investigations, dualisms etc., the essence of one`s actual awareness.
Best wishes
KY
Consciousness and the body are natural conditions. To be able to see them in terms of Dhamma means to awaken to the way it is. The body, not as some personal identity but as this experience right now, is sitting here giving this reflection, and then there is consciousness. We usually don’t recognize pure consciousness because we are highly conditioned to think—we are attached to views and opinions, memories, emotional habits, to a sense of self. Then we create ourselves out of these various conditions: as Americans, or whatever. Ajahn Pasanno is now an American—legally! This we can consider as a convention
When we’re obstructed by this sense of a separate identity as a personality, an ego, or by culturally and socially conditioned views that we’ve acquired, and the language that we think in, it always leads to some kind of insecurity or doubt. When these are not challenged or awakened to, then we tend to be operating from positions, taking sides, defining ourselves according to the religious convention, or the social condition we have, the gender of the body, the color of the skin, or whatever. These are our precious identities that we will fight over, quarrel over, and abuse each other endlessly around—the conditions that we’ve acquired, not out of wisdom and understanding, but out of ignorance. In this sense, ignorance is not like being illiterate, rather it’s not understanding, not knowing Dhamma. In other words, as long as one is limited and bound into the conditioned realm then there’s this ignorance. Consciousness operates and remains the same, but ignorance influences how we see and create the world around us.
Now with sati and paññā (wisdom), this leads to discernment, to seeing Dhamma, rather than in seeing a conditioned attitude or a positioning in the conditioned realm. With sati and sampajañña—awareness, mindfulness, apperception—there is the ability that each one of us has to open to the totality of this moment, in which it’s not a thought, it’s not a perception, but it is recognizable: it’s like this. That is consciousness. We’re suddenly recognizing consciousness itself, which is that which is ordinary and that we’re experiencing all the time. But when we’re always perceiving ourselves through conditioning, then we don’t recognize consciousness. We’re merely using consciousness and projecting into it our own sense of self, conditioned attitudes, emotional habits, and identities.
The actual word Buddha means Awakened. It’s a “wake-up” teaching. Somebody asked me one time, “Could you describe Buddhism in one sentence?” And I said, “I can do it in one word.” He said, “What’s that?” “Wake-up!”
With this sense of awakened consciousness, when there is this, then we recognize, we realize Dhamma. We recognize the conditions in terms of Dhamma, we discern all conditions are impermanent. It’s not attaching to a view that, “All conditions are impermanent.” We actually know this, we discern it. And then we also discern the unconditioned. We recognize nibbāna, anattā, suññata, nirodha. These are the words for the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unconditioned. This is in the teaching of the Four Noble Truths, and is recognizable. I’ve used this teaching now for all of my monastic life and have been putting it to the test
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Awakened-Consciousness-Ajahn-Sumed-t233724.html
I seem to recall that Ajahn Sumedho favours "consciousness without surface" ( vinnanam anidassanam ).
Conciousness is the result of a sense. We have eye conciousness etc.
Conciousness belongs to impure perceptions so it is not /represent the state of Buddhhood, This conciousness is the cause for the result called false self (there is no self)
The mind of karma or the false self, is the actual boss of all those sense consciousnesses.
So we deal here with mind which is not perfect and which should be threatened with methods so that it can see or be aware of the other shore.
As soon as there is this awareness , then the mind of conciousness is gone or disappeared.
That Sate can one call in Buddhism the real sate of meditation.
The longer one can remain in this state the more one can become closer to Buddhahood.
If one could remain in this State than one is sure a Buddha.
best wishes
KY
I prefer this
Consciousness has no shape or form. It isn't bounded by time and space. It isn't floating about either ).
But this sutta is talking about "mind" rather than the function of consciousness, the distinction is a significant one.
As the sutta notes on ATI explain:
"A more reasonable approach to understanding the statement can be derived from taking it in context: the luminous mind is the mind that the meditator is trying to develop. To perceive its luminosity means understanding that defilements such as greed, aversion, or delusion are not intrinsic to its nature, are not a necessary part of awareness."
So Rigpa is roughly the equivalent of prajna?
To know that one is alive, one has to be conscious. To have any experience at all, one has to be conscious. Isn't that the obvious thing? Consciousness is the same everywhere but the objects of consciousness differ.
But we need to distinguish between citta, vinnana and prajna.
Rigpa is a State where Wisdom is self emergent.
If Wisdom is not self emergent then we call it Jnana
Prajna is indeed Wisdom, but how is it seen?
By the dualistic mind or as self emergent ?
For the most is Wisdom, insight into what is for instance emptinerss.
But the Wisdom which is the most excellent, has nothing to do with knowledge, insight etc. imo Wisdom is mostly here wrong used.
Prajna para mita sutra deals with this Wisdom which is experienced as unspeakable.
So this Wisdom means a State of Awareness and the other "Wisdom" is called finally jnana.
Best wishes
KY
Tee Hee
Another year. Another mind.
The influential 'Mind Only' school of Dharma is too intellectual for my simple mind. However for those who have a mind to ...
Yogacara (also known as Cittamatra) is a philosophical school that has its origins in India with the monk Asanga who worked alongside his brother, arya Vasubandhu to compile a set of texts on teachings passed to him from the Bodhisattva Maitreya.
The teachings have several important elements to them that have influenced many schools of practice, especially the Zen schools and the Nyingma lineage of Tibetan Buddhism.
The first important aspect of Yogacara, which lead to its alternative name Cittamatra ("mind only") is the relation of phenomena (dharmas) to the mind. The Yogacarins point out that the only way we know of the existence of phenomena is from a subjective perception of them. It is only through the six senses (sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch and thought) that a human is aware of anything. In a similar way to the Idealists such as Bishop Berkeley, the Yogacarins ask "how do we know there's actually an objective world 'out there'? What is its relation to the mind?"
https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Buddhist_Philosophy/Schools
In the words of the Buddha (allegedly) [ "pick up flower, subtle smile" ]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_Sermon
They pinched this from the suttas, as usual! There are a number of suttas where this phenomenological approach is evident.
https://suttacentral.net/en/sn35.23
It makes sense and sounds like addiction. The way I was able to stop smoking cigarettes was to realize that even though it felt like I needed a smoke, it was just conditioning. If I needed nicotene in my system, it would have been there when I was born.
Luminous mind wouldn't just show up on the scene I don't think. It's there in the mud just like before the mud was there. Not so luminous in a mundane eye but stripped of the mud, it can shine.
You mean mano, citta and vinnana?
Citta: commonly understood as "mind", "heart", "soul". The pure citta (with no "waves") is the liberated mind unconditioned by defilements. The defiled citta is always associated with sense objects and is ever wavy/stormy, and the waves are Viññāṇa.
Want to come back to the topic what is Mind ?
Well according the Dzogchen vision the Mind of Enlightenmen, that which as potential inherent present in humans but not recognised, also called Bodhi Citta in the ultimate sense, it has 5 Great Qualities.
The qualities of the other Mind we know which are thoughts and memorisation(s), karma and emotions etc.
Best wishes
KY.
The Great Principle of Enlightenment as the Dimension of the Utimate Reality,
given that the Mind-itself is unborn from the origin
(sems ayid gdod ma nas ma skyes pas bon ayid dbyings su sangs rgyas pa 'i che ba).
The Great Principle of Enlightenment as really perfected,
given that all appearances are the Mind-itself
(snang ba sna tshogs sems ayidyin pas mngon par rdeogs par sangs rgyas pa 'i che ba).
The Great Principle of Enlightenment as Great Identity,
given that no other phenomenon exists outside of the Mind
(sems las ma gtogs pa 'i bon gzhan medpas bdog ayid chen por sangs rgyas pa 'i che ba).
The Great Principle of Enlightenment as not being something that can be created,
given that the state of Enlightenment of the Mind-itself is beyond effort and action
(sems ayid sangs rgyas kyi g-yo rtsol las 'dos pas ma byas par sangs rgyas pa 'i che ba).
The Great Principle of there being no Enlightenment
since in the Nature of the Mind the realization of Enlightenment is inexpressible
(sems kyi rang bzhin la sangs zgyas kyi rtogs pa mi bry'odpas sangs rgyas medpa 'i che ba).
But aren't the defilements here unskillful mental states like craving, aversion and delusion?
You say the defiled citta is always associated with sense objects and vinnana, but that would imply a Buddha doesn't experience sense objects or consciousness, which doesn't make sense.
I still think the distinction between vinnana and prajna is pivotal here. Vinnana is the basic function of consciousness while prajna is a higher knowing.
Defiled Citta means the Mind of karma which is Sems in Tibetan.
Buddhas are Aware of everything but they do not follow.
Buddhas can go down of the ladder of their immutable State and emanate ( Then they follow) : They are then mostly born on a miraculous way.
They assume a lower body (rupa kaya) to be vissible.
This because Compassion is the very base of a Buddha.
In this way we have two paths to help sentient beings.
To become Buddha and decent from this State in an emanation form.
The very essence of the Mahayana kaya / vehicle would be the Bodhisattva form.
In the Hinayana one must become a monk first i guess so to become Enlightened........
Best wishes
KY