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Why is GOD seperate?
brianhorlicks
Earth Explorer
It's something I've never understood?
Why do people believe that God is seperate?
Why do we need to go to building's,
To worship or talk to God?
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
For most Buddhists "God" doesn't really have a place. It's probably not the ideal group to ask as a result. I imagine the reasons vary widely, much of it the results of how/what people are taught by religious authorities. Also, humans tend to see the world from a dualistic point of view. A lot of it is about maintaining our sense of self/ego. Also, many people seem to prefer the idea that someone out there is looking out for them, accountable to the things that happen hear on earth, and within power to make changes and bless someone with good fortune. To me, it seems like nothing but a distraction from self-accountability and responsibility and accepting that sometimes, poop just happens and there isn't some divine reason for it.
But, I don't believe in God, despite being raised in a Christian family (I gave up on the idea when I was like 7 years old, it just didn't work for me).
I really couldn't give a bunfuttock whether God exists or not.
If God exists, whoopee-do. If God doesn't exist, whoopee-do.
I never give it any thought one way or the other.
I have far more pressing things to concern me, day-to-day, than pondering something imponderable.
You don't think that all you see around you,
Happened by accident?
It happened through evolutionary astral machinations. I have absolutely no inkling or suspicion whatsoever that any God had anything to do with it.
I don't believe creation was the result of a supreme being.
I figure, if there is such a being, great. If not, great. It doesn't impact my daily life in any way, and I figure whatever happens after death happens, I'm not too concerned with it. Nor am I overly concerned with the details of how everything came into being. Crashing space stuff, explosions, evolution. All good stuff.
Why is a god needed ?
What I never understood is how some claim an eternal creator started everything. That's a pretty big flaw in logic there... an eternal creator would have always been creating which leaves no room for a beginning.
@brianhorlicks said
Like Topsy, it just growed. That is what we can see. God is a speculation, a fever dream, a mental object, something extra. Our job as Buddhists is to get rid of something extra and to see, as best we can, what is actually present, here and now.
It seems like people have been asking questions like why are we here and what is the purpose of life? God gives an answer to that.
As a logical explanation to the world it makes sense, early man saw that they could make things so why not some larger, more powerful someone made us?
All the rest of the stuff comes after that, like we need to make sure to keep this powerful guy happy so he treats us nice and all that.
I don't believe in God, there are philosophically logical arguments against a creator but the Buddhist idea of Dharmakaya syncs up with many of the other qualities some say God has. So maybe there is something more to the universe than physical stuff but it doesn't take the form of a unique, all powerful being? Or maybe it is only matter and we need to make what meaning we can before the sun expands and gobbles us up?
Yes, I think @karasti's right; machinations. The early Church authorities decided they didn't want people communing with God on their own; they wanted people to go to their priests for answers. So those early Christians who went into the desert to meditate in caves were excluded, and their Gospels declared invalid. The Church wanted to control how people interpreted the Bible and Jesus' teachings.
The closest thing to God in my view is the Tao becoming aware of itself one aspect at a time.
If I were Hindu, I would guess that we are the infinite avatars of Vishnu.
The Biblical character known as God just makes no sense to me and I would hardly give an angry and jealous entity a handle as grand as "God".
@David But Jesus' revolution was all about re-characterizing God as a loving entity.
Yes, which in and of itself was a human fabrication. The Catholic Council decided in 350AD once and for all, that this Jesus Yahweh or Yeshua was God incarnate. So they made him one and the same. Before then, he had been sent by God as his incarnate sinless representative. They were quite undecided about his status until after long and prolonged debate, they decided he was 3-in-1 (and I'm not talking Bike oil....!)
(The article's author, however, if you read it fully, states that Jesus' identity had to be debated and discussed, and that his Godly status had to be determined by a human decision - humans, incidentally, who were carriers of Original Sin - but he fails to take into account that the Bible - whence they obtain the debatable information - is also the product of scripts and texts written by other human beings, and is quite questionable in its authenticity or veracity!!)
@Dakini There are plenty of times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks of punishment for disbelievers. He claimed that He hadn't come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. He also said that not the smallest part of the Law could be changed.
Later, Paul seemed to change Jesus' message, emphasizing such doctrines as grace and mercy. I think that's where the re-characterization mostly comes from. When I read the words attributed to Jesus, He seems just as cruel and jealous as the God of the Old Testament.
@David Think of it this way. The God of the Old Testament was really a version of the ancient Indo-European Sky God, the blustery, thunderous one. You can see why primitive peoples would view their main God that way, being so dependent on nature, and subject to its forces as they were.
Thousands of years later, this visionary guy named Yeshua comes along, and starts talking about a loving God, a forgiving God. No wonder he was controversial, and no wonder he created somewhat of a stampede of followers! People thought, "Hey, bag that 'punishment' cr@p, I want to feel the love!"
In that step, part of humanity evolved from worshipping and trying to placate nature's destructive forces to opening up to each other, and realizing the Brotherhood of Man. A huge evolutionary step!
The early editing history of the Bible is a bit of a mess. Did you know reincarnation was in there up until about 400 AD? Of course the whole notion of holy books is somewhat absurd, after all any book is written and copied by human hands.
I certainly don't believe in a creator God, although I am partial to the notion of divine god-nature as part of everything we see and are. Which is a more Hindu concept relating to Advaita.
And then, along came the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch trials...God surely did move in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform...
@Kerome. They say there's still an oblique reference to reincarnation in the Gospel of John. I forget the exact passage.
The difficulty with the word "god" is that you can never tell what the heck anyone really means when the word passes their lips. If we take god as being an all-knowing, all seeing immortal super humanoid, that's one thing - clearly an invention, logical only to the very ignorant. But then we start adding qualifications and the whole business becomes very fuzzy - in my view a good reason to avoid the word god altogether in favor of trying to say what we actually mean, futile as that often proves to be.
Clearly there is much in the universe that is totally beyond the ability of our senses, and even of our instruments, to detect, let alone understand. "There's something out there" as one of my Christian friends put it. Well and good - I sense something as well, but let's maybe not call it god and then proceed to drown ourselves in metaphysical hallucinations. At some point we must embrace and accept our ignorance.
@Fosdick --great post, well said! Instead of God, I prefer the label "Mystery", or "The Great Mystery", because that's very accurate. That's exactly what it is.
And good on him. I do imagine he was trying to appeal to what people already believed and wanted people to be better to each other. He started talking about forgiveness and about his father and it really got people steamed.
It is said today even that he was Jewish which would be legally true as was Mary but he obviously didn't believe as one.
Jesus did for Judaism as Buddha did for Brahmanism in a way.
The Kingdom is within, treat each other as if you are me, yadda, yadda, yadda.
I'd say Jesus woke up to his true nature and asked us to follow his example.
Sadly, he turned over the wrong table and instead of just a few angry mobs he had the State after him.
I don't think he died to save us from the wrath of an angry creator deity but I do think he lived as the best example he could muster amidst so much ignorance.
I like to talk to myself
but call it God.
In that sense am I building
need?
... and now back to reality...
I sometimes think in terms of Mother Earth being the obvious raw materials from which we are made and God the Father being whatever it is that makes it all go.
I don't think our awareness is a product of our form but that our form is a product of our Awareness. With Awareness being "The Creator" It seems that the God we (those of us who do) seek is within us as is our Buddha Nature. Perhaps they are One and the same.
Hmm... I'm pretty sure it's the other way around with Paul emphasizing punishment for non believers and sneaking the old law back into the teachings of Jesus.
Look at John 8 with the pharisees, Jesus and the adulterous woman. Pay attention to what he says to them about their precious Abraham.
I think it's a shame he was killed so young and never had the chance to teach like Buddha was able to. Buddha was just waking up around the same age Jesus was killed.
Those are just rumours.
Jesus sits on the right hand of the Easter Bunny
and Satan Claws is on the left. Rainbows and a pot of gold are in there somewhere ...
@David Jesus had quite a few Lost Years, when we don't know what he was doing or where he was. For all we know, he could have started teaching earlier. It's a mystery why he started so late, relative to the time he was given on Earth.
Well, if he started teaching earlier his students were never heard from that I know of and if they were, their gospels would never have made the final cut.
Some say he studied Buddhism during his early and lost years but we will probably never know.
Well as long as s/he/it don't start to talk back, things should be good in the hood, other wise there's a nice snug fitting straight jacket with your name on it @lobster
I dunno. My feeling is that Paul thought that the Law was put into place by God just to show humans how unrighteous they were, and that faith in Jesus was the only way to salvation. He didn't put a lot of trust in Jewish tradition, and criticized Peter for forcing Gentile converts to get circumcised and follow Jewish dietary laws.
The whole Bible is so enigmatic and contradictory that I don't trust it one bit. There may be some stuff that's good, but you have to wade through so much malarkey that it doesn't seem worth it. It hardly seems that it is the inspired Word of a perfect God.
Oh no..... yet another pointless God thread...
This is a Buddhist site, for Buddha's sake...
@DhammaDragon says
Yes indeedy - we are drawn to the word god like flies are drawn to carrion. "A fool returns to his folly as a dog returns to its vomit" or something like that.
Let us not forget, however, the inestimable value of the word as employed in expletives. Nothing in Buddhism can compare to it.
Who is "we", btw? Native Americans don't go to buildings to connect with the Creator.
Not quite sure what you mean here.... The Buddha DIED around 500 years BEFORE Christ was born....
^^^ At the age Christ was being crucified, thirty two or so, Buddha at a similar age was becoming enlightened and would then teach.
Newbies have no idea how many "God" threads we have endured down the years.
Explorers begin on the site and triggering a "God" thread must be feel like inventing the wheel to them, I guess.
We have never come up with conclusive evidence of anything on either position and I bet we never will, even if we are given a dozen "God" threads more.
And "we," by the way, are Buddhists.
We don't need to go to any building, least of all worship or talk to a God, because Buddhists, unless they dip toes in other beliefs, simply do NOT believe in a God.
Buddha woke up when Sid was around 35 YEARS OLD. Jesus was killed when he was around 35 YEARS OLD.
Better?
Yeah, Paul said that. Jesus never did. Jesus was preaching the news that people just had to treat each other better by following the Golden Rule. Even if they never heard of him or his father they would still be doing the will of him and his father.
If he was here to die for our sins he could have just let himself get stoned.
Following Jesus is one thing and the majority of Christianity is quite another from where I sit.
In my view it makes no difference if he was the son of a god, an enlightened master or just some guy fed up with how people treated each other as his message speaks for itself when looking between the lines.
Thank you for all your comments.
As a 'newbie',
I don't know what as already been posted!
The word GOD is a plural.
"WE will make man in OUR image".
The letter H is for HORUS.
Which jesus is based on,
The 8th letter of the alphabet.
The number 8,
Means 'good or gid',
The number 8 turned on it side,
Is the infinite symbol.
So nothing was floating around,
Bored,
Because there was nothing to do,
Then for some unknown reason,
Explodes into what we know now?
A multiverse of dimensions and multiple realities,
Where systems and subsystems work side by side like a giant computer program.
All because nothing blowing up,
For no reason what so ever.
That's if it did,
Because the apparent explosion should show us the centre of the universe,
But modern day scientific minds can't even tell you where that is?
Weird.
@brianhorlicks It is a big site that has been around for a very long time. More than a decade. It's safe to assume major topics like God have been discussed in some capacity. If you aren't sure, use the search function. Many of the big questions everyone has are covered here on a very regular basis. You'll find numerous threads to read through that will give you an idea of the take of the members here.
However, please note that even if the thread is still open, do not comment on old threads! If you feel it deserves revisiting, open a new one and link the old one in it. If a thread is a year old or more, the general rule is don't comment. Even something 6 months or more is pretty much a dead horse because members come and go pretty often.
I like how you're thinking here but it isn't as black and white as God or a magic nothing.
I'll admit a creator deity makes more sense than "nothing" but then, anything would.
My guess is the big bang is a function of the universe and not a start of it. If we could zoom out the other side and keep going the screen would likely start filling up with an infinite amount of little specks... each with its own sub-universe, timeline and perhaps even an infinite amount of possible variations to said timeline.
@Federica He means it's too bad Jesus didn't have much time in adulthood for a ministry, before they killed him. Which is why I commented that he had plenty of time in his 20's, but we don't know what he was doing then.
Also, Jesus' country had been overrun and conquered by a hostile empire, the Romans. The Buddha was surrounded by a variety of small kingdoms, some of whose leaders he preached to and solicited sponsorship from, for his community. The political situations Jesus and Buddha lived in were very different, which turned out to be Jesus' undoing.
@brianhorlicks if you want you can make one thread about "anatta/not self", that topic is seldom discussed here
Yes, sorry for the misunderstanding. I appreciate the clarification.
I have met people (admittedly not Buddhists) who presumed Christ to be more ancient than Buddha, or a contemporary.... I didn't want to take the misunderstood passage for granted as erroneous.
I'm actually working with one of those guys now. I keep telling him to mind what we're doing right now but he wants to argue the validity of world wide floods and stuff.
Annoying to say the least.
Not a Bunfuttock does she give, nor I a Conflummox.
(10 x conflummoxes = 1 Bunfuttock. 5 Bunfuttocks = 2 fiddler's elbows.)
Mans experience in what we call Earth is filled with many challenges and all sorts of questions man may not comprehend during their individual time.
Believing in God, or someone/something (we can put any name we choose to, from Gods of various religions and may include angel, conscience, higher self, sun, animals, nature, etc) as long as its higher than ourselves it provides the greatest strength one can find inside all of us. Its called HOPE..
Opinion:
Men of different geographical locations shows how diversified life is. Languages, culture, clothing, dialects and words vary as well. Men of different culture would have a different name to call something to enable better communication among them. for example, the closest star that shines every morning is called sun, to some el sol, some call it shams, taiyang and more...Its reasonable to say that men would call their Gods differently in various locations,
Assuming that these early men prayed to their Gods and vowed to devote their lives by either becoming loyal, or sharing the news of such miracles. Now lets say these men who prayed where great men of their times. And for many years there tribe or community manage to survive. What would someone feel if one said to them that their faith and belief system is the true faith to be followed?
For me, Loving kindness, Compassion, and Respect towards one another is a good place to start from.
CONCLUSION:
God is so Great and Powerful. Knowing ahead mans diversity, he appeals to each and everyone in many forms and many names.
Looking at most teachings of various faith. They have scriptures for Love, Peace, Forgiveness and most of all not doing any harm to others.
Besides, Life is meant to be experienced Joyfully
Loving KIndness, Compassion and Respect work unfailingly, for me.
God is quite another matter.
While I entirely respect someone's deep and devoted following of God, I really don't care enough about it to give it any thought at all.
Greatness and Power are open to abuse, so I prefer to attribute those qualities to Human beings, who I know are flawed, rather than to a God who supposedly isn't.
As for Hope - given that it was one of the evils in Pandora's box, I treat it with the contempt it deserves.
Just my opinions.