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silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
@person said:
It seems like the EU, for better or worse, is attempting to turn nations into states. If I imagined the US where each state was its own sovereign nation that had its own language in addition to cultural differences, I don't imagine that most states would be all that happy to give up the ability to control who lives and works there. States rights vs national rights is still a hotly debated field and we were founded as a united republic. I'm on team brexit for wanting self-determination. I'm off the team for the xenophobia, its something we've seen in the US forever and have seen through its hyperbole.
The xenophobia is going to be in there one way or the other. This vote has stirred up the fears hidden beneath a thin veneer of people's psyches. Self-determination and states rights is extremely important and has been shoved to the side for too long.
I think we have common ground in this. I've found this whole thing a good opportunity for practice (I must tie this in with why we're all here in the first place!), because I think times like this call for it the most.
I do understand that these crises have a cause, as the entire region where many are coming from are fleeing places that have been destabilized through my country's intervention, and it's difficult because there are no easy answers to questions on public safety. A lot is happening quickly and there is lots of confusion.
I need to practice compassion today. For the migrants, the anti-migrants, for victims of crime and the criminals.
No worries on the links, but thank you.
I was thinking of the situation the war victims in Syria find themselves in and what on earth they must be feeling/thinking. To be forced out of their homes by ISIS and be so poorly treated by the Syrian government, Turkey, the United States and Russia. To hear Angela Merkel welcome them to Europe with open arms only to change her mind again a few days later.
Angela Merkel was trying to fix German demographics by allowing a lot of people in in the hopes that they will get work and pay for the pensions of German citizens, she didn't act out of compassion. She changed her mind when advised that it would be years before many migrants can upskill to German standards and get decent jobs. Now she says they are only here temporarily. And surely the 6 billion the EU is handing Erdogan would be better spent on the refugees themselves? Did you know that Turkey wont let Syrians who are doctors or engineers leave Turkey to go to Europe under the exchange deal? These people are treated like pawns in a geopolitical chess game.
The compassion world leaders have for humanity is non-existent. People everywhere are referred to as "human capital" now without any mention of these peoples hopes, desires or fears. It's all about the economy and what big business wants (the driving down of wages by oversupplying the labour market). It's not about what people want or need. We are going to end up with a bizarre situation where half the worlds population will be moved to Europe, but EU leaders make statements saying this is a good thing as it will make the economy bigger!
I am going to spend more time practising compassion myself for everyone. In the past when I try to cultivate compassion for politicians and corrupt business people I usually ask myself, what happened to these people that they would start wars, destroy societies, ruin the environment etc in the name of profit? These people have to be suffering somehow to be ok with interfering in these things.
Indeed, if we take a step back and see the whole thing happen, from the U.S. to the Middle-East and Africa to Europe, it becomes clearer that this goes back to opportunism. I agree that it seems unlikely that one could be of sound mind and truly happy when being a lynchpin for so much misery. It seems apparent that one would need to cut off any emotional connection to support it.
It's sort of like corporations. Some corporations are doing horrendous things in the world because they are designed to deliver profits to shareholders, nothing more. But regarding the individuals that work within it, I'm sure many would be the nicest people.
Regarding Europe, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that there will be more exits as long as the same economic policies (largely a template of American neoliberal policy) are in place. The people of Greece never asked for that kind of awful policy. It's an inherently coercive system. I don't think that some writers in North London townhomes or in Manhattan reflect the people for the most part- yet they seem to have framed the conversation from the get-go as if everyone for the exit were against internationalism/multiculturalism and everyone for it support them, while fawning over the EU. It's a toxic way to view things, and seems really detached from reality. Not everyone is so privileged.
So yes, I'm really trying to understand and grow compassion too. Not easy, but I think it's worth it.
@Shoshin said:and then I think about the amount of countries that Britain and other European countries had colonised where the indigenous populations became 'second class citizens' (or worse slavery or genocide) in their own land...
All that happened was efficient English gentlemen having a good clear out. The religious fanatics were sent to America and the convicts to Australia. I think the Duke of Wellington was in charge, or it might have been Lawrence of Arabia.
Revisiting this thread after having read an article that incorporates a compassionate view (towards the bottom of the page). I don't know much yet about the author, Charles Eisenstein. He lived in Taiwan for a while, hence I suppose his leanings towards compassion.
Obviously this is food for thought rather than a recipe for how to solve a global problem of wealth distribution. I like how it raises the issue of "otherness" and alienation, something we encounter daily without realizing it. (See also Alan Watts in his recorded talks on YouTube.) I also like how he points out that we all tend to vilify those who have the opposite view of our own - a thought process ingrained in us early on.
Here is a passage from Eisenstein's essay (full version linked below)::
"Well-being comes, in this story, through domination and control: glyphosate, antibiotics, GMOs, SSRIs, surveillance systems, border fences, kill lists, prisons, curfews…
It is from this story too that neoliberal capitalism sources its power. It depends on the idealization of competition, encoded in “free markets,” as a law of nature and primary driver of progress; on the sanctity of private property (which is a primal form of domination) and, most of all, on exercising control over others through the creation and enforcement of debt. It finds a natural home within the Story of Separation; it is, perhaps, Separation’s culminating expression, threatening as it does the ecological basis of human existence. We cannot change it without letting go of that story in all its dimensions. Part of that is to let go of war mentality in politics, and replace it with compassion."
Comments
The xenophobia is going to be in there one way or the other. This vote has stirred up the fears hidden beneath a thin veneer of people's psyches. Self-determination and states rights is extremely important and has been shoved to the side for too long.
I was thinking of the situation the war victims in Syria find themselves in and what on earth they must be feeling/thinking. To be forced out of their homes by ISIS and be so poorly treated by the Syrian government, Turkey, the United States and Russia. To hear Angela Merkel welcome them to Europe with open arms only to change her mind again a few days later.
Angela Merkel was trying to fix German demographics by allowing a lot of people in in the hopes that they will get work and pay for the pensions of German citizens, she didn't act out of compassion. She changed her mind when advised that it would be years before many migrants can upskill to German standards and get decent jobs. Now she says they are only here temporarily. And surely the 6 billion the EU is handing Erdogan would be better spent on the refugees themselves? Did you know that Turkey wont let Syrians who are doctors or engineers leave Turkey to go to Europe under the exchange deal? These people are treated like pawns in a geopolitical chess game.
The compassion world leaders have for humanity is non-existent. People everywhere are referred to as "human capital" now without any mention of these peoples hopes, desires or fears. It's all about the economy and what big business wants (the driving down of wages by oversupplying the labour market). It's not about what people want or need. We are going to end up with a bizarre situation where half the worlds population will be moved to Europe, but EU leaders make statements saying this is a good thing as it will make the economy bigger!
I am going to spend more time practising compassion myself for everyone. In the past when I try to cultivate compassion for politicians and corrupt business people I usually ask myself, what happened to these people that they would start wars, destroy societies, ruin the environment etc in the name of profit? These people have to be suffering somehow to be ok with interfering in these things.
I think Vikings should be banned from cafes.
@Boru
Indeed, if we take a step back and see the whole thing happen, from the U.S. to the Middle-East and Africa to Europe, it becomes clearer that this goes back to opportunism. I agree that it seems unlikely that one could be of sound mind and truly happy when being a lynchpin for so much misery. It seems apparent that one would need to cut off any emotional connection to support it.
It's sort of like corporations. Some corporations are doing horrendous things in the world because they are designed to deliver profits to shareholders, nothing more. But regarding the individuals that work within it, I'm sure many would be the nicest people.
Regarding Europe, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that there will be more exits as long as the same economic policies (largely a template of American neoliberal policy) are in place. The people of Greece never asked for that kind of awful policy. It's an inherently coercive system. I don't think that some writers in North London townhomes or in Manhattan reflect the people for the most part- yet they seem to have framed the conversation from the get-go as if everyone for the exit were against internationalism/multiculturalism and everyone for it support them, while fawning over the EU. It's a toxic way to view things, and seems really detached from reality. Not everyone is so privileged.
So yes, I'm really trying to understand and grow compassion too. Not easy, but I think it's worth it.
All that happened was efficient English gentlemen having a good clear out. The religious fanatics were sent to America and the convicts to Australia. I think the Duke of Wellington was in charge, or it might have been Lawrence of Arabia.
Boris & Nigel Oops Laurel & Hardy
Umm and what about the Brexit plan ?
"Plan!!! What plan???...No we didn't have a plan....Well we'll be off now tat tar "
Revisiting this thread after having read an article that incorporates a compassionate view (towards the bottom of the page). I don't know much yet about the author, Charles Eisenstein. He lived in Taiwan for a while, hence I suppose his leanings towards compassion.
Obviously this is food for thought rather than a recipe for how to solve a global problem of wealth distribution. I like how it raises the issue of "otherness" and alienation, something we encounter daily without realizing it. (See also Alan Watts in his recorded talks on YouTube.) I also like how he points out that we all tend to vilify those who have the opposite view of our own - a thought process ingrained in us early on.
Here is a passage from Eisenstein's essay (full version linked below)::
"Well-being comes, in this story, through domination and control: glyphosate, antibiotics, GMOs, SSRIs, surveillance systems, border fences, kill lists, prisons, curfews…
It is from this story too that neoliberal capitalism sources its power. It depends on the idealization of competition, encoded in “free markets,” as a law of nature and primary driver of progress; on the sanctity of private property (which is a primal form of domination) and, most of all, on exercising control over others through the creation and enforcement of debt. It finds a natural home within the Story of Separation; it is, perhaps, Separation’s culminating expression, threatening as it does the ecological basis of human existence. We cannot change it without letting go of that story in all its dimensions. Part of that is to let go of war mentality in politics, and replace it with compassion."
http://charleseisenstein.net/the-fertile-ground-of-bewilderment/