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Is there a contradiction between heavy metal and Buddhism?
Jimi
London New
I dont know if i've worded the question very well but i am a massive heavy metal (punk, rock etc) fan, i play in bands and I love it but it is quite an angry form of music. Does Buddhism condemn metal ?
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Comments
How long ago did Buddha live?
I don't think Buddhism condemns forms of "music " so much as it allows you to reach a fuller understanding of your interactions with your surroundings, your world. What you do with that is your decision, your burden, your enlightenment.
Agree with @Steve_B
Buddhism treats you like an adult capable of making your own decisions. It doesn't so much tell you what to do, rather the point of the practice is to get us to understand how certain actions and behaviors effect us so that we are then better informed about what decisions we make in our lives.
For example I love Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead, both are very violent and morally questionable. I can see how they create moods in my mind that skew towards suffering and away from happiness. I decide to watch a few select shows but limit my overall TV intake because I don't like how I feel after binging.
I love heavy music too but I must confess I rarely listen to it these days for the same reasons the posters above have set out.
If you decide to continue on this path seriously then the answer to how much heavy music you play and listen to will naturally take care of itself. You won't need a monk or lay Buddhist to tell you whether you should partake or not.
Music, like tv, games, books and other things, is a form of consumption. I play M rated games, and I watch Game of Thrones and other such shows. I listen to some metal. It all depends how it affects you and if you can stop to look at how it affects you and be honest about it. If you can experience it and then set it down, great. If it provides an outlet for you, that's not necessarily a bad thing either. But if you use it as a means to FUEL your anger that's different.
It's up to you to discover what is toxic for you. Everything, even water, is toxic at too high of an amount. But what that limit is varies a bit by person. We all have to learn our own limits.
For me, I have to be cautious of too much distraction, which is common especially in the US. We fill our lives with busy things to avoid looking at ourselves and what our lives and minds really have become. For me, even things I enjoy become toxic if I consume them at the wrong time (bad mood, etc) or too much of it at one time.
Recognizing and then investigating why we do things is a huge part of Buddhist practice, IMO. It's ongoing, even once you come to a conclusion, you will likely find over time that that conclusion changes frequently.
I always like how Thich Nhat Hanh views such things and I refer back to his 5 mindfulness trainings when I need a reminder.
"Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful consumption, I am committed to cultivating good health, both physical and mental, for myself, my family, and my society by practicing mindful eating, drinking, and consuming. I will practice looking deeply into how I consume the Four Kinds of Nutriments, namely edible foods, sense impressions, volition, and consciousness. I am determined not to gamble, or to use alcohol, drugs, or any other products which contain toxins, such as certain websites, electronic games, TV programs, films, magazines, books, and conversations. I will practice coming back to the present moment to be in touch with the refreshing, healing and nourishing elements in me and around me, not letting regrets and sorrow drag me back into the past nor letting anxieties, fear, or craving pull me out of the present moment. I am determined not to try to cover up loneliness, anxiety, or other suffering by losing myself in consumption. I will contemplate interbeing and consume in a way that preserves peace, joy, and well-being in my body and consciousness, and in the collective body and consciousness of my family, my society and the Earth."
Buddhism considers hell dwellers and angry musicians to be sentient beings ...
Dharma Punx might be of interest ...
http://opcoa.st/0V982
You'll grow out of it in time
Besides I don't think Buddhism really 'condemns' anything...
It really depends on how you process and transform it internally. I think the fact that you experience it as "angry music" means you notice it is triggering your anger centers, and it is moving you away from your natural state. So even though you are not experiencing the full emotion of anger, you are processing it in that way on some level.
A very experienced meditator might be able to listen to the music and remain unaffected, but I think there are not that many who reach that level. I have heard from spiritual friends on good authority that music like reggae can become a kind of karmic guide, that it can significantly influence the course of your life.
So I think it would be wise to at least limit your intake of this kind of music, and not involve yourself too heavily in that scene.
Huh. I had to listen to a lot of heavy metal when my teenage stepson lived with us, and I've never heard it described as "angry music". Probably helps I couldn't understand a thing the singer was shouting over the distorted guitar. But then, I do remember when rock and roll was condemned as promoting drugs and sex, and of course rap is supposed to be promoting drug dealing and treating women like a Ho. Of course, music doesn't "promote" anything but reflects what is already there.
The old monks had something against watching street performers but that only meant they had to drag one young monk too many away from watching the show when he was supposed to be making the rounds begging for food and besides, you're not a monk.
My only advice is to be the best Buddhist heavy metal musician you can be. Let your audience pound each other silly in the mosh pit. Young people especially have a lot of energy to work off, so let them. It's what you do when you're not shredding that guitar that matters.
I quite like some rap music, it can be quite poetic, but that's not entirely true. The lyrics of some rap music definitely do promote some really bad behaviour towards women. It's a question of making a stand for what you believe in.
The metal "music" I'm imagining, especially the screamo flavor, is indeed pretty angry stuff. Perhaps you could join a Barry Manilow tribute band.
Whenever I wanted to torture my stepson, I'd turn on my favorite classic country music station on long drives and sing along. Then he got so he refused to ride with me unless he had his earbuds and ipod.
Have you heard of Jessica Pimentel? She's an actress and Metal musician. It works if you are committed to finding a balance. Check her out! And here.
I love orange is the new black so I know her from that but I didn't know she was Buddhist and in a band that's awesome !
I used to be a punk rocker!
This might be of interest to you @jimi
Short answer:
No
Everything else is additional rhetoric.
Please tell me you met Sid.
Actually, one of the first 10 precepts is about avoiding music. However, my personal policy is that if it's conducive toward a spiritual high, then it's ok. I avoid noisy music. And if it's angry music, well, OP--I think you know the answer to your own question.
Heal the cause/s of the anger, and your music tastes might change. Best wishes!
Not entirely true. It very much depends on type and lyrics. The fact that people can recite and sing along to entire tracks from memory, denotes an absorption of a specific message, which might have subliminal effects. Certainly I would surmise that listening to Iron Maiden's 'Hallowed be thy Name' would engender different feelings and emotions, to Pharell Williams' 'Happy'....
There's different forms of metal and condemn is a strong word but if the music projects anger then you have your answer right there.
Anger is one of the poisons and having loved metal at one point I can say it affected me in a negative way. At the time it didn't seem so but as they say, hindsight is usually 20/20.
I'm not saying it's impossible to project compassion with somebody yelling angry obscenities and anecdotes in your ear but it makes it a bit more difficult.
As you walk the path you will probably find your anger at the world lessen and lessen and with that your taste in music will most probably change.
If it's the really fast guitar riffs that get you, there is much more talent in other genres.
And this is coming from a guy who's favorite song used to be The Toxic Waltz by Exodus.
One of my best friends (still friends to this day) had a two foot tall, purple and spiked mohawk.
One day we were walking down the street and someone around my age now looked at him funny. He got all uppity on the guy and asked angrily what he was looking at. I couldn't help it. I burst out laughing at the absurdity of the question.
I mean... Why does somebody have a two foot tall, spiked and purple mohawk if they aren't looking for a reaction?
..."Oh, I'm sorry - I didn't realise you thought it was invisible...!"
I'm not particularly a fan of metal, but I used to love the band Tool. I admired their skill and how effective their music was at making me feel something. I would blast Tool through my headphones at very loud volume to wake myself up in the morning, or to motivate myself to do unpleasant chores. But then I noticed that I would be very short tempered for the rest of the day, and would snap at people. So I stopped using them for motivation. I still listen occasionally, but usually not deliberately. I still think they're great at what they do, I just decided I didn't like how their music made me feel and how it changed my attitude.
Good point, @nakazcid. Truth is, it that while there is no contradiction between Buddhism and Heavy Metal, Rap, Jazz, Folk, Country..., the contradiction is within the person if he or she allows the music of choice to be the disturbance, cause for discord.
Some would phrase it,"Keeping things in balance".
Now back to that to my cofee.
Peace to all
do you want any effin coffee...?
It is one of my addictions. Chocolate and macadamia nuts are a couple more. Oh, and tea also.
Life is my biggest addiction. It seems I can't get along without it.
You had life?! You were lucky! Life were just a distant dream to us.
The question is, how many people are aware of the effect of their music? I think a lot of people would just say, "it makes me feel good", which is an unaware, unskillful answer. It is important to look a little deeper, to find out exactly what part of you it is triggering and using to make you feel good.
Osho once said that "modern music is largely junk, it's rhythms trigger the sex centre and not much else" (or words to that effect), and that's probably true of nearly all of pop or hip-hop with pounding fast baselines. There is not a lot of popular music that stands up as being skillful.
A friend of mine holds that Bob Marley's reggae was an exception, that it has a spiritual message as well as energetic merit. Personally I am listening to a fair bit of country and cello music. I personally have found that as I have become more aware, more mindful and more peaceful, that my taste in music has also changed.
I can still enjoy a bit of disco or pop, but these days I'm aware that it generates a very buzzy, bubbling uneasy high-pitched energy in me, which takes me away from my most peaceful modes of being.
I suppose that might beg the question "Which music is best to make love to, and why?"
But that's another thread.
Yes, I can dig that - if only he hadn't been quite so hypocritical in his 'comings and goings.' I'm sorry that he died the way he did, though.
But I digress. Apologies.
Carry on.....
That's interesting. I wonder what he bases his thoughts on (Osho and music and sex). There have actually been studies done that show particular beats increase the pace of runners, even over the long haul. I've found that to be true for myself. Has nothing to do with sex, lol, but there are still endorphins and other feel good stuff involved in exercise of course, too.
Just sayin', that many monks who take far more than the first 10 precepts still sing. Tibetan throat singing is one that comes to mind. Many others use sing songy melodies to help memorize things as well. Thubten Chodron always explains how much intention and attachment plays into breaking precepts which makes the most sense to me. Not a music and singing and dancing is the same, as far as it's roots, what it means and how we perceive it. So it doesn't seem it should all be treated the same. But it takes a high level of self trust to be honest with oneself about the effects anything really has on us. It's difficult, for sure.
I'm not so into the screaming metal bands, I might occasionally listen to them but not often. I'm more into the classic metal bands (Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera, Iron Maiden etc) As I said it is quite an angry form of music but in a way it's kind of calming, it kind of makes you feel happy, or at least it does for me. To me, metal isn't just screaming or a lot of noise. If you look at a lot of the lyrics to these songs they're actually some of the most emotional and meaningful lyrics. Obviously there are some metal bands whose lyrics are just a bit messed up cough Slipknot cough... A lot of people say that metal is classical music but with distortion and actually if you listen to a lot of the riffs and structures, they're almost identical
Jimi the classic metal seems to have put more thought into their work than the newer "teen" metal. (my opinion) I think people drift toward music that fits how they feel. If you feel angry, you're more likely to listen to angry music. I don't think you should blame your anger on the music, but blame the music on the anger. One thing about Buddhism is it often helps us see our inner selves more clearly. If you hav some deep seated, hiding angry pockets of frowny faceness in there somewhere, that may come out as a side note, but it doesn't have to be the whole bag. Some of that classic stuff is great to exercise to, actually, it can really get you going.
Nice bit of metalish stuff here at 36:30, Wolf Alice from the Glastonbury festival:
Buddhism doesn't "condemn" anything or anybody. It's not Christianity or any other diety based type of spiritual practice.
I think judging people for listening to heavy metal contradicts Buddhism.
There is no question anywhere of judging. The question hinged on whether there is a contradiction between heavy metal music and Buddhism and there seems to be some opinion that there occasionally might be, but fortunately nobody is putting that forward as a judgement...