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Its a sad world
Mingle
Veteran
My mate today has gone to a funeral, the third one this year! Its alarming cause he is only 28 and the people who have died have only been in their twenties and the last two its been because they killed themselves. I also have another friend who has had mates kill themselves too. I think there was two or three. Its really more common then I thought.
If I hear of a death its usually either from cancer or suicide, mostly suicide. I would say someone jumps in front of a train at least twice a year around where I live and that's just the ones I hear about.
It is indeed a very sad world. Sorry If I sound negative.
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The year is almost up - with any luck, won't be any more - my condolences to him/her.
It would be more alarming to me if I wasn't aware of just how prevalent suicide is; my son took his own life. He was almost 23.
Did your mate know why each of them chose to take their own lives?
If he did he doesn't want to discuss it with me which is fair enough. I have a feeling the third one did as well.
I wonder what leads these people to end it all.
I think the best general way of looking at it is despair over feeling trapped in some intolerable situations. It's all those negative emotions that they can't find their way through / that they can't accept.
It's people not getting to grips with their suffering. Suicide is so sad, because it is usually people who see no way out anymore, when in fact if they are willing to throw away their old lives and drastically change things, there are often things that can be done. But every case is different, and it is a question of compassion for those they leave behind, whether anything constructive can be said.
I do think that the way doctors treat potentially suicidal behaviour is far from ideal. Often it is with antidepressant medication, which doesn't work for everyone and often has the side effect of making symptoms worse in the short term. Then some people get sectioned and sent to a closed psychiatric ward, which can be very traumatic. But very rarely do they actually get help with the things that make them feel so bad that they have to take their own life.
It is very sad to hear about these stories. I often wonder what is harder. Going through life if you want it to end or ending your life. Both seem very difficult to one who is suffering.
My condolences
I've lost several friends and classmates to suicide over the years. When i was in 11th grade, 3 boys all the same group of friends, hung themselves a few months apart. It is a sad and confusing thing to process.
I've known people who are suicidal and either don't "succeed" or didn't carry it out, including my sister who probably loves life more than anyone I know yet has struggled to want to remain part of it. In talking to them, a lot of what I have heard is an inability to see a way through what they are going through. It is easy to talk about how impermanent everything is, but when you are suffering, often for years, it doesn't feel very impermanent.
They are either people who have suffered severe depression for a very long time and feel like they are a drain on their families with no way to see things improving, or people who are experiencing a very sudden difficult life experience and cannot see through to things coming out better. I think the latter is more common in younger people who haven't had the experiences that show them that those situations do end. Kids who are relentlessly bullied, kids who had pictures or videos made public, etc. Their suffering is just too much for them to continue to bear.
But when suffering becomes too much is largely a matter of perspective. If someone who was bullied has to go spend a year in Aleppo their priorities would change very quickly. Like so much else, suffering is largely in our minds.
I've seen several suicides of young people. In all cases, they were severely mentally ill. Scizophrenia tends to manifest in the late teens/early 20's'. It can take people a few years to realize they're ill and get diagnosed. Some people don't make it to getting help. And from what I understand, the meds available for that are uncomfortable to take and live with. .
even though it is very hard to do, if we can be a good friend to the other (friend, relative, neighbour) that is the best thing that can be done to avoid suicide
we have to be a good listener to other person, help to build up the confidence in you then only 'they' will open up about their 'inner demons'
people with depression, any mental illness, any person could be included in 'they' including you and me
instead of trying to give advice, it is better to show them that you are with them on the same page
at the moment i am with such a friend and have been trying to develop his confidence in me and his wife yesterday called me and told me now it seems he only want to talk to me
hope everything will be alright with this person in coming days, he is an AA
It may, or it may not. Our suffering is still our suffering. Comparing it to the suffering (even if much more severe) of others most often doesn't help. Try telling someone that. "Hey, you think your life is bad, look at this person's life!" and see how it goes. It might work for you to compare that way, and it does help to keep perspective. But only in someone who is mostly mentally healthy. Not to a teenager who has almost no life experience to compare to and thanks to puberty is experiencing super volatile emotions. Everything is a matter of perspective. But you can't use decades of your own experience to tell a 14 year old that they are wrong. Not with most of them, and not successfully. You can try, but they will do everything they can to prove you wrong, lol. Unfortunately, most of us (especially at our younger ages) do a poor job of learning from the examples and experiences of others. We have to try for ourselves unless the impact of the other experience was great enough.
True
advice is futile with them, 100% agree
but there is a hope, once you build up the confidence in you, you can bring up the advice delicately
have done that successfully before and hope it will be successful in future too
It's an interesting word "Suicide" Sui=oneself -cide =kill....
One could say from a Buddhist perspective ones aim is to achieve a similar thing "Anatta" "Non Self"
Sadly however, suicide is taking this quest to the extreme....
The mind is fragile and at times is prone to crack under certain pressures, irrational thoughts pour in and become dominate...Our world is shaped by our thoughts...Paranoia, anxiety, depression, could become the norm....which leads to a feeling of hopelessness, no way out....
Kind words. friendly smiles, being patience and making time to listen can go a long way in helping to alleviate their suffering/mental anguish...
One of the hardest things to say to a family member or friend,whom you know is suffering is "Have you ever thought about taking your own life" ...You are not inviting them to do it....what you are doing is giving them a chance to open up and let out what they've been bottling up inside...
But you have to be mentally strong to handle their answer and know who to call for assistance....
International Suicide Hotlines
I have only once thought about suicide. This was at the worst of my illness. I didn't want to die, I just wanted the constant pain to stop.
I think perhaps that is the main motivator of suicide. Stopping the pain.
Just my 0.02
On a side note but not completely un related, I work in a shop and after a while one can't help but make observations. I don't know how you would define an alcoholic but there definitely seem to be a fair few people who are in everyday buying booze. Not to go out, to drink at home. It seems innocent and they all seem like pretty cheerful people but are they just trying to unwind at the end of a hard day or do they have a problem?
This article was something a friend posted on her FB yesterday:
nypost.com/2016/12/12/if-you-answer-yes-to-these-questions-you-may-be-an-alcoholic/
@Mingle It could be either, are you looking to make suggestions to them or something? Alcoholic can be tricky to define. But why do you need to define them at all?
If one needs liquor to unwind after a hard day on a regular basis, they are not coping with life very well and even if they aren't alcoholic, it's problematic drinking. A lot of people that keep liquor stores in business are probably either problem drinkers or alcoholics. Which is probably part of why Buddha said right livelihood included not being in the drug and alcohol business.
When things were very bad for me, several times I thought about suicide and each time God put a sentençe in my mind and I gave up doing it.For this I AM very grateful!!!
That's fantastic, I'm glad that you have a means of overcoming your suicidal thoughts...However, could you explain what you mean by "God put a sentence in your mind" ?
Coming from a Buddhist perspective, it sounds strange/foreign...so I'm not sure what you mean by a "god" intervening in your life ...by helping you out, so to speak ....
Well actually I should havê said my guru did. Her name is Gurumayi and like the DalaiLamaJesus Shiva Krishna and other Masters, are Divine in nature. And this episode of my suicide thought are just one of many proofs I had.
As for a God above all dieties and the creator I havê a hard time understanding the buddhist perspective that such a God doesnt existe.
Who created us? By the way I do beleive that everyone hás the great Self inside that is God also. Can you help me with these doubts or maybe I can start a separate discussion one day.
@Paola I don't think there has to be a "who" that created us, rather the combined forces of nature and the universe that create anything. I think the universe is a creative force unto itself. One might ask what created the universe, but then you end up at the ages old question of what created God and it is no different of an answer depending where you stop. But I have also found that when you sit and discuss with people, it turns out we are often a lot closer than we think, we simply call it different things. One of the main reasons Buddhism rejects a God such as the Christian type of God is that it results in us looking outside of ourselves for the answers to our problems, when all along they are always within us. We have to be the solution to our problems, not God or prayer. I think it would be something to start a new discussion for, though.
@Paola. I had to look-up Gurumayi to try to get an idea of what you are following. Siddhi Yoga is imo at quite a distance from Buddha-Sassana. For there to be the sort of God above all other gods than that being would not not be subject to arising.decay and passing away. In the 36 planes of existence that has yet to be discovered. Nonetheless I should like to hear more of your ideas.
The Buddha rejected the idea of a Divine, Omniscient, All-powerful Creator-God, for the fundamental reason that proof either way is impossible, and continued thought on God's existence gets in the way of our own Spiritual progress along the path. Adhering to such concepts is ultimately a hindrance....
. You may have personal anecdotal evidence, but proof - in and of itself - that such a Being exists - is non-existent.
You may believe whatever you wish, but belief is not proof, and is not Fact.
Hopefully, the added link above, will help you understand the 'Buddhist perspective'.
Personally, I really don't mind whether God exists or not. S/He might, S/He might not. I am open to whatever might arrive, but I don't spend my time wondering, hoping or searching for anything in particular....
Much Metta to you.
**I would like to thank for the welcoming you gave me. I think that your right that you could ask Who created God and that could not be answered either. Also I share your idea also that we should not expect God to resolve things for us, but rather act for ourselves. I AM sorry if sometimes I get off the subject specific of buddhist but I tended in my studies to put teaches in a big bowl and then I forget where I got it. Dont you all beleive that like Jesus put that many are the path to enlightenment?
And that we are beggining the New Age período of spiritualawakening? Does buddhist support this belief?
Jesus was a teacher, and apparently on a quest to restore the Doctrine of the Ancient texts. he never claimed to be the son of God, and held that God was androgynous, he/she, not male.... a discovery made in a cave a few years ago, is fascinating documentation, and recent research reveals a lot about his personal objectives... Very interesting...
Buddhists have one task: To understand the Cause of Suffering, and how to transcend it, or rise above it. New ageism has done much to tarnish the Religion of Buddhism. In fact, the term '"Buddhism-Lite" is applied to people who romanticise and misunderstand the core concepts of Buddhism, but purport to follow it, because it's fashionable. Just look at all the people who purchase those trendy statues to put in their gardens or living rooms, thereby attempting to create a peaceful harmonious atmosphere, but doing little else to follow the Buddha's footsteps...
Buddhism doesn't support any beliefs. Buddhism urges you to find out things for yourself, and to study the basic premise of the Buddha's example....
thankyou for the explanation
I read a book on buddhism written by Trungpa. Havê you ever heard of him? And can I Trust his explanation
You kind of have to decide who you trust based on your own investigation. I like quite a bit of Trungpa's stuff, but he is within the same school that I practice (Tibetan vajrayana). He had quite a few personal....issues? Follies? I'm not really sure what to call them. So some people call his teachings into question. I try to let what he taught speak for itself apart from the problems he dealt with (alcoholism was a big one) and the problems he caused (his sexual values were definitely not in line with Buddhist precepts).
Thanks @Paola
I guess it's a case of whatever raft keeps one afloat during those turbulent times ...and I'm glad that it worked for you
**thankyou for showing me that these very inteligente teachers havê there faults too. I just think that this information should never be kept a secret, but rather be honestly exposed to all seekers that come across them.
I'm not sure why you are thanking me...I just asked a question and you have given me your answer.... ..But you're welcome anyway
"Great Faith and Great Doubt are two ends of a spiritual walking stick. We grip one end with the grasp given to us by our Great Determination. We poke into the underbrush in the dark on our spiritual journey. This act is real spiritual practice -- gripping the Faith end and poking ahead with the Doubt end of the stick. If we have no Faith, we have no Doubt. If we have no Determination, we never pick up the stick in the first place."
~Sensei Sevan Ross~
Well quoted @Shoshin
Exactly so. So many of us believe the path is 'building up', in a greater sense it is being broken apart ...
forgive me Shoshin I got all mixed up in só many discussions. In another discussions I asked about the auther Trungpa Sorry again
@Paola, don't put everything in bold. keep to normal text - it's better to use formatting (bold, italic, etc) for making emphasis, or to stress something particular in a post....
I realise some of your letters have accents on them... maybe it's a profile of your keyboard you can't change, or something....Can youi access your computer main drive through settings to maybe alter or add languages to type in and cure any issues....?
No worries @Paola ...It can take awhile to find your way around the site...
I AM still learning how to use the comment box.
I thought B was a command to write anything in the box. As for my computer cel. It is programed for portuguese but I will change it to english when I get on this site.
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I think I havê to also specify Who I AM responding to? Sorry will fix it!!
if you put the @ sign, directly before a forum name, that will highlight in pink - like this @Paola - and the member will receive a notification that you have responded to one of their posts., too.
THis is how to make sure you receive notifications:
Click on your own name (on one of your posts, maybe).
This opens your activity page.
To the right hand side, you'll se a small box with a silhouette of a person's head and shoulders, and a down arrow.
Click on the arrow.
You'll get a set of choices - click on 'Edit profile'.
When your profile options come up, look at the list on the left.
Click on 'Notification preferences.'
Select these four:
These four keep you up to date on forum.
The sentences and paragraphs have 'accents' too. Very charming.
Funny how "it's a sad world" can win a nod of agreement.
Funny how "it's a joyful world" can have the same effect ... with the fingers crossed.
George Michael has died.
Good grief, 2016, you really have had it in for Humanity this time, haven't you? Aren't you done yet? isn't all this enough?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38432862?SThisFB
Hoping the Queen really only has a cold, 2016 is out for everyone and still has 6 days to go!
I know, right? Obviously it thought David Bowie, Leonard Cohen and Rick parfitt weren't enough, and wanted to make it a quartet..... Jeesh, enough already!!
Goddammit, now Carrie Fisher, fer chrissakes.....!!
And Richard Adams, who wrote Watership Down.
And my beloved dog Mac.
Much more sad (for me) than any of the others.
Nooo....! Oh FFS.....! ~sigh~
@Steve_B Sorry for your loss
It's so hard to lose fur babies. This year, personally, was decent for me. Last year we lost my grandma and several pets. But this year, celebrities aside, was awful for a lot of people I know. My friend lost her son who was 39, and nephew who was 35, both to cancer within a couple of weeks time, right before Thanksgiving. Another friend lost 7 friends to heroin overdoses in the past year 
I'm reminded of the .....
The mustard seed parable
"Alas the living are few, but the dead are many"
Oh man. Just saw Debbie Reynolds, Carrie Fisher's mother has also passed away. How tragic for the family...
Just saw this also, it is staggering. However, if what her son said was true and she did want to be with Carrie, then I hope she is happy. I am mostly concerned with Billie Lourd... Losing her mother and grandmother in such quick succession.
My friend and I (both of us die hard Star Wars fans) talked about Carrie's death last night. My friend brought up how most people survive their first heart attack, and how it had been announced that Carrie was stable a few days prior. But, seeing as Carrie's body has been through many drugs and treatments, I just don't think it could bounce back. She's had near death experiences before, most notably in the mid-1980s when she overdosed and then went to rehab. There's also rumors going around that she'd relapsed in drinking at least from what I've seen. But nothing is certain.
@Mingle: Sorry for getting off topic. But your original post and these new topics are connected, in my mind.
I do not believe there is a power controlling the universe day in/day out, but I do believe in karmic influence and cause and effect. I also believe that EVERYTHING can be turned into a lesson or moment of reflection.
Death is a lesson for us all. Those who die are no longer tied to this world, this life. Carrie is no longer battling her addictions or struggling with mental health. And the ones you have lost, @Mingle, aren't struggling anymore either. Whatever happens after life is up to much debate, but one thing is certain: they are free from the self they previously inhabited, and free from any of their old suffering.
2016 has been a source of much sorrow, anger, and dissatisfaction. Because of this, I believe 2017 will be full of love and joy. This is the nature of the world, a balancing act. Trump's presidency will not magically go away, but just in the past few months alone I've seen a great influx of support for the LGBT community and other causes. Nat Geo just had a spread on gender identity for example. The Dakota Access Pipeline might be rerouted. Etc, etc.
Following death, there will be a proliferation of life, usually in the form of newfound wisdom or insight. An elderly relative of mine recently passed, and I struggled with a lot of guilt and sadness because I hadn't seen him in years, and did not talk to him before he died, partly because that side of the family is estranged with emotional tensions, and partly because I was scared--of death and other things I don't know.
But I realize now that guilt is self-inflicted, for the relative who passed is no longer bound to his self, or this family. The only person I am hurting with these thoughts and (in)actions is myself. His death has made me rethink about my own passivity and ideas on morality.
I do not feel sorrow for the dead, because they are free. Who were we before birth? Nothing. And who are we after death? Nothing. You don't lose anything when you return to what you once were. Death is a transcendence humans are incapable of comprehending until they finally encounter it themselves.
Though it is true that more time spent alive is always worthwhile and preferable, the dead haven't lost anything. They have risen above the notion of life completely. All of their suffering is washed away.