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@JaySon I wish you the best with this. I am not sure what the answer is to this issue of Buddhist practice and politics. But it's critical to think about the point at which one needs to withdraw. At what point is it just too poisonous, and harmful to our innate respect for human dignity? I can feel the anger and the contempt boiling up in me when I watch certain things. Can't be good for anyone. And I see people who are just walking arguments, lashing out at everyone and everything with no analytical equanimity or open-mindedness or willingness to listen. Seems that can be attributed to our culture, and specifically mainstream media. On the other hand, completely withdrawing leaves you ignorant about what's going on. That reduces your ability to deal compassionately with current issues, fight for justice, etc. So, I don't see a clear answer.
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@Shoshin said:
It would seem that you have also tag him, by quoting my post...So now the poor sod's been tagged twice, but I'm sure he will see the lighthearted joke, without having to read the political comments that came after his last post...
Bearing in mind my post/comment was not political
I agree that the news is a source of anxiety, depression and anger for me, therefore it's unskilful for me to consume it. Sure, this may not be the case for everyone - but it is for me, as someone prone to anxiety and depression. So not reading it would be far more beneficial to myself and others than reading it would. I don't think this conflicts with being politically active, as I still keep aware of the various protests and causes going on where I live. I also want to become a member of the Young Labour party here in the UK (socialist leaning under the current leader) and I also volunteer with the homeless. I don't see how reading the news would really play into me taking an active role in the world, I can get my information from other people; the news leaves me unhappy and stirred up, so I also try and avoid it.
I don't really see why people feel a need to criticise this approach lol, surely it doesn't really effect you personally? An individual will know what is right for them.
I don't think that one has to be immersed in the news on a day to day basis, in order to know what is happening in the world and be properly informed. I could be 100kms away from a TV and I'd still know what Trump is up to. Also, just because @JaySon said that he vowed to stop, does not mean that he will never ever see a news story or can't participate in conversations about politics. When watching the news, the only break that I get from Trump or Republicans is when I'm learning about another bomb blast somewhere in the world that killed women and children or a women that was raped down the street or a car accident caused by a drunk driver on Saturday that killed a family of 4....enough already!
I feel @Kaydeekay made an excellent point. Look after yourself. Do not be angered, depressed, swamped by el swamp drainer, Brexit, political incorrectness etc.
We can have a 'spiritual politics' if you will:
Neither Left nor Right
East or West,
Buddhist or Un-Buddhist
@lobster said:> Passive assistance or passive resistance?
I'm beginning to favour active disengagement.
4
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
French and Dutch elections coming up soon, and Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders are doing well in the polls. They are kind of our equivalents of Trump, and they have been taking notes during his presidential election campaign...
@Kerome said:
French and Dutch elections coming up soon, and Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders are doing well in the polls. They are kind of our equivalents of Trump, and they have been taking notes during his presidential election campaign...
Trump was able to win (don't know how) using his tactics (don't know how it worked). I see a trend now where certain politicians are trying to be like Trump by aligning themselves as the outsider, here to save the day. Knowing the reaction that Trumps election and executive orders have caused all over the world, do you think it is a good idea for the "Trumpesque" candidates to try and be like him or win like him. I think it's risky, after all he did NOT get a majority.
I don't know if it's as much a case of them wanting to be like Trump, but those ideologies were already in place in those countries, too. They saw it work here, so I assume there is some copycat stuff going on, but the same problems here (and in Canada from what i see on Twitter) are the same everywhere in the western world. There is an entire group of people who feel left behind by the progress that has been made under liberal candidates and they are fighting back. But many of them are fighting (it seems) to go back to a time that isn't possible. The world is moving on, and they don't know how to move with it, so they want to stop it in its tracks and go back to times they are more comfortable with. That is what I see here anyways, and the mentality is much the same through the rust belt that threw Trump into the oval office.
3
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
What he seems to be forgetting is that it's not Donald Trump who has been invited, but The President of The United States. While some may not believe a distinction exists, it does: One is a person, the other is a Highly-prominent and important Political Position.
I don't think Trump and the Office of the President should even be used in the same sentence. Every single day he does something else to tarnish the title and the entire office. I wish someone here would tell him he's not welcome to speak I get your point, and I don't really disagree. But I understand the desire to not allow Trump to spew his insanity and lies everywhere he goes, too. The US-UK alliance is an important one, for sure. But I'm not sure Trump speaking is going to do anything but harm that, it seems to be what he's done with everyone he's spoken to.
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
He spouts platitudes, veiled threats and undiplomatic promises. The problem then is, that he has to put his money where his mouth is.
When he does that, the shit hits the fan.
Several State Senators, Mayors and City fathers, legal representatives and politicians are now up in arms against his legislation.
It seems that some of them must have voted for him.
What did they expect?
I think a lot of it, apart from his awful legislation, is the outright, hands-down lies he and his administration have told. He also said he didn't know that the order he signed demoting 2 very important parts of the National Security Council gave Bannon a seat. The orders he signs are only a couple pages each, and he doesn't even read them. Obviously he's not the one running the show. He is exactly what half of us expected he'd be. I have no idea if the other half think they are getting what they expected or not.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited February 2017
I have to admit though, the more I read about him, the scarier it gets.....
I think he believes himself unstoppable and above the Law.
I hope and pray for all that is sane, that he is neither.
3
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
I was watching some pieces of news about the obamacare repeal... it turns out that a lot of the people who voted for Trump in the 'rust belt' are miners who suffer from dust inhalation problems, something which was specifically covered in obamacare... these poor folks may now get stiffed by the government they voted into power, as they delivered some very crucial votes to the trump campaign. Sad.
I think that will be a case with a lot of things. There have been a few articles now pointing to what Trump has done and has plans to do and who it'll affect the most. Not surprisingly, it'll be those who voted for him which is a bit of a trend. For whatever reason, they often vote for candidates who pass things that harm them. But their reasons for voting for him matter so much to them that they don't stop to think about what else it'll mean. In the rust belt, for example, one of the reasons he was so popular was his promise to fix trade deals that hurt blue collar workers. I doubt they even thought about what would happen to them within his other promises.
A vote for inner revolution, a la @lobster It's a challenge to come to this forum and find the same conversations reverberating from the political news sites I read. It has been quoted before on this site (by me, among others), but always worth reading again after a day of TMT (Too Much Trump) and unmindful consumption of too much news. That is to say, Thich Nhat Hahn's version of the Fifth Precept:
Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful consumption, I am committed to cultivating good health, both physical and mental, for myself, my family, and my society by practicing mindful eating, drinking, and consuming. I will practice looking deeply into how I consume the Four Kinds of Nutriments, namely edible foods, sense impressions, volition, and consciousness. I am determined not to gamble, or to use alcohol, drugs, or any other products which contain toxins, such as certain websites, electronic games, TV programs, films, magazines, books, and conversations. I will practice coming back to the present moment to be in touch with the refreshing, healing and nourishing elements in me and around me, not letting regrets and sorrow drag me back into the past nor letting anxieties, fear, or craving pull me out of the present moment. I am determined not to try to cover up loneliness, anxiety, or other suffering by losing myself in consumption. I will contemplate interbeing and consume in a way that preserves peace, joy, and well-being in my body and consciousness, and in the collective body and consciousness of my family, my society and the Earth.
I don't think it should be surprising that it's discussed in all corners. It's discussed at the breakfast table at cafes, at church, at sporting events, even while people are dogsledding here, lol. It's a major topic because it affects the lives of a lot of people. How it affects everyone has to be for them to decide when too much is too much and to take necessary breaks.
Many browsers offer extensions that let you filter keywords. I found one that eliminated mentions of Trump on most major news sites (including larger state run publications, not just national and international) and it was quite funny. One day, CNN only had 3 articles on their entire front page that weren't Trump.
@karasti said:
I don't think it should be surprising that it's discussed in all corners. It's discussed at the breakfast table at cafes, at church, at sporting events, even while people are dogsledding here, lol. It's a major topic because it affects the lives of a lot of people. How it affects everyone has to be for them to decide when too much is too much and to take necessary breaks.
Many browsers offer extensions that let you filter keywords. I found one that eliminated mentions of Trump on most major news sites (including larger state run publications, not just national and international) and it was quite funny. One day, CNN only had 3 articles on their entire front page that weren't Trump.
Do you mind passing that comet name on please? You can PM it to me if Mama Fede prefers
Titillation. Excitement. Stimulation (negative or postive) does it effect your equinimity one hundred years from now? Are you still being disturbed by Napolean, Ghengis Khan, Herod?
PS. Wherever and however I place my mind and attention effects my well being. Thus have I heard and confirmed. Are you consumed?
@dhammachick Did you want the extension name? I use Chrome, the one I have is called Trump Filter and you can decide on mild, moderate or aggressive filtering. I know there are others for other browsers as well, I just searched for Trump browser filters after finding I much enjoyed filtering him and all sorts of other keywords from my FB feed, lol.
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited February 2017
(Yeah. I tried entering 'newbuddhist'. Big mistake.......)
There was a huge news item on Southern Sudan that has achieved independence from the remainder of Sudan, and the conflict, massacres and other atrocities going on there. They have reined back from calling it 'genocide' just yet....but as with so many states of war, rape is high on the list as a means of wreaking havoc and exerting control. My husband is a news watcher, but I left the room.... There are some things which are unpalatable. Others, just too plain horrific to digest.
Comments
Poor form on my behalf for not editing properly.
I'm sure you are sincere when you say you meant it as a joke......
@JaySon I wish you the best with this. I am not sure what the answer is to this issue of Buddhist practice and politics. But it's critical to think about the point at which one needs to withdraw. At what point is it just too poisonous, and harmful to our innate respect for human dignity? I can feel the anger and the contempt boiling up in me when I watch certain things. Can't be good for anyone. And I see people who are just walking arguments, lashing out at everyone and everything with no analytical equanimity or open-mindedness or willingness to listen. Seems that can be attributed to our culture, and specifically mainstream media. On the other hand, completely withdrawing leaves you ignorant about what's going on. That reduces your ability to deal compassionately with current issues, fight for justice, etc. So, I don't see a clear answer.
Sorted.
I agree that the news is a source of anxiety, depression and anger for me, therefore it's unskilful for me to consume it. Sure, this may not be the case for everyone - but it is for me, as someone prone to anxiety and depression. So not reading it would be far more beneficial to myself and others than reading it would. I don't think this conflicts with being politically active, as I still keep aware of the various protests and causes going on where I live. I also want to become a member of the Young Labour party here in the UK (socialist leaning under the current leader) and I also volunteer with the homeless. I don't see how reading the news would really play into me taking an active role in the world, I can get my information from other people; the news leaves me unhappy and stirred up, so I also try and avoid it.
I don't really see why people feel a need to criticise this approach lol, surely it doesn't really effect you personally? An individual will know what is right for them.
I don't think that one has to be immersed in the news on a day to day basis, in order to know what is happening in the world and be properly informed. I could be 100kms away from a TV and I'd still know what Trump is up to. Also, just because @JaySon said that he vowed to stop, does not mean that he will never ever see a news story or can't participate in conversations about politics. When watching the news, the only break that I get from Trump or Republicans is when I'm learning about another bomb blast somewhere in the world that killed women and children or a women that was raped down the street or a car accident caused by a drunk driver on Saturday that killed a family of 4....enough already!
I feel @Kaydeekay made an excellent point. Look after yourself. Do not be angered, depressed, swamped by el swamp drainer, Brexit, political incorrectness etc.
We can have a 'spiritual politics' if you will:
Neither Left nor Right
East or West,
Buddhist or Un-Buddhist
I vote for el-inner-revolution. Ay caramba!
I'm beginning to favour active disengagement.
French and Dutch elections coming up soon, and Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders are doing well in the polls. They are kind of our equivalents of Trump, and they have been taking notes during his presidential election campaign...
Yes Le Pen has now rounded on the Jews. I was waiting for it to happen.
Trump was able to win (don't know how) using his tactics (don't know how it worked). I see a trend now where certain politicians are trying to be like Trump by aligning themselves as the outsider, here to save the day. Knowing the reaction that Trumps election and executive orders have caused all over the world, do you think it is a good idea for the "Trumpesque" candidates to try and be like him or win like him. I think it's risky, after all he did NOT get a majority.
I don't know if it's as much a case of them wanting to be like Trump, but those ideologies were already in place in those countries, too. They saw it work here, so I assume there is some copycat stuff going on, but the same problems here (and in Canada from what i see on Twitter) are the same everywhere in the western world. There is an entire group of people who feel left behind by the progress that has been made under liberal candidates and they are fighting back. But many of them are fighting (it seems) to go back to a time that isn't possible. The world is moving on, and they don't know how to move with it, so they want to stop it in its tracks and go back to times they are more comfortable with. That is what I see here anyways, and the mentality is much the same through the rust belt that threw Trump into the oval office.
Well The Speaker of the House of Commons kicked up a shit-storm....
What he seems to be forgetting is that it's not Donald Trump who has been invited, but The President of The United States. While some may not believe a distinction exists, it does: One is a person, the other is a Highly-prominent and important Political Position.
Idiot.
I don't think Trump and the Office of the President should even be used in the same sentence. Every single day he does something else to tarnish the title and the entire office. I wish someone here would tell him he's not welcome to speak
I get your point, and I don't really disagree. But I understand the desire to not allow Trump to spew his insanity and lies everywhere he goes, too. The US-UK alliance is an important one, for sure. But I'm not sure Trump speaking is going to do anything but harm that, it seems to be what he's done with everyone he's spoken to.
He spouts platitudes, veiled threats and undiplomatic promises. The problem then is, that he has to put his money where his mouth is.
When he does that, the shit hits the fan.
Several State Senators, Mayors and City fathers, legal representatives and politicians are now up in arms against his legislation.
It seems that some of them must have voted for him.
What did they expect?
I think a lot of it, apart from his awful legislation, is the outright, hands-down lies he and his administration have told. He also said he didn't know that the order he signed demoting 2 very important parts of the National Security Council gave Bannon a seat. The orders he signs are only a couple pages each, and he doesn't even read them. Obviously he's not the one running the show. He is exactly what half of us expected he'd be. I have no idea if the other half think they are getting what they expected or not.
I have to admit though, the more I read about him, the scarier it gets.....
I think he believes himself unstoppable and above the Law.
I hope and pray for all that is sane, that he is neither.
I was watching some pieces of news about the obamacare repeal... it turns out that a lot of the people who voted for Trump in the 'rust belt' are miners who suffer from dust inhalation problems, something which was specifically covered in obamacare... these poor folks may now get stiffed by the government they voted into power, as they delivered some very crucial votes to the trump campaign. Sad.
I think that will be a case with a lot of things. There have been a few articles now pointing to what Trump has done and has plans to do and who it'll affect the most. Not surprisingly, it'll be those who voted for him which is a bit of a trend. For whatever reason, they often vote for candidates who pass things that harm them. But their reasons for voting for him matter so much to them that they don't stop to think about what else it'll mean. In the rust belt, for example, one of the reasons he was so popular was his promise to fix trade deals that hurt blue collar workers. I doubt they even thought about what would happen to them within his other promises.
A vote for inner revolution, a la @lobster It's a challenge to come to this forum and find the same conversations reverberating from the political news sites I read. It has been quoted before on this site (by me, among others), but always worth reading again after a day of TMT (Too Much Trump) and unmindful consumption of too much news. That is to say, Thich Nhat Hahn's version of the Fifth Precept:
Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful consumption, I am committed to cultivating good health, both physical and mental, for myself, my family, and my society by practicing mindful eating, drinking, and consuming. I will practice looking deeply into how I consume the Four Kinds of Nutriments, namely edible foods, sense impressions, volition, and consciousness. I am determined not to gamble, or to use alcohol, drugs, or any other products which contain toxins, such as certain websites, electronic games, TV programs, films, magazines, books, and conversations. I will practice coming back to the present moment to be in touch with the refreshing, healing and nourishing elements in me and around me, not letting regrets and sorrow drag me back into the past nor letting anxieties, fear, or craving pull me out of the present moment. I am determined not to try to cover up loneliness, anxiety, or other suffering by losing myself in consumption. I will contemplate interbeing and consume in a way that preserves peace, joy, and well-being in my body and consciousness, and in the collective body and consciousness of my family, my society and the Earth.
http://plumvillage.org/mindfulness-practice/the-5-mindfulness-trainings/
I don't think it should be surprising that it's discussed in all corners. It's discussed at the breakfast table at cafes, at church, at sporting events, even while people are dogsledding here, lol. It's a major topic because it affects the lives of a lot of people. How it affects everyone has to be for them to decide when too much is too much and to take necessary breaks.
Many browsers offer extensions that let you filter keywords. I found one that eliminated mentions of Trump on most major news sites (including larger state run publications, not just national and international) and it was quite funny. One day, CNN only had 3 articles on their entire front page that weren't Trump.
Do you mind passing that comet name on please? You can PM it to me if Mama Fede prefers
Titillation. Excitement. Stimulation (negative or postive) does it effect your equinimity one hundred years from now? Are you still being disturbed by Napolean, Ghengis Khan, Herod?
PS. Wherever and however I place my mind and attention effects my well being. Thus have I heard and confirmed. Are you consumed?
Long Live the King! Alternatives? Always.
I find when I apply equinimity while watching the news I can do so without it stirring me up too much.
The hard part is to remember to apply equinimity in the first place!
@dhammachick Did you want the extension name? I use Chrome, the one I have is called Trump Filter and you can decide on mild, moderate or aggressive filtering. I know there are others for other browsers as well, I just searched for Trump browser filters after finding I much enjoyed filtering him and all sorts of other keywords from my FB feed, lol.
Thanks so much @karasti
(Yeah. I tried entering 'newbuddhist'. Big mistake.......)
There was a huge news item on Southern Sudan that has achieved independence from the remainder of Sudan, and the conflict, massacres and other atrocities going on there. They have reined back from calling it 'genocide' just yet....but as with so many states of war, rape is high on the list as a means of wreaking havoc and exerting control. My husband is a news watcher, but I left the room.... There are some things which are unpalatable. Others, just too plain horrific to digest.
Trump filter. Good tip @karasti
I won't be using it incidentally as I find the level of real life comedic incompetence better than Monty Python ...
You could not make it up ...