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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Ok, this works, guys.
I have just got into a pair of new jeans, in a size I haven't worn since before my eldest daughter was born.
UK Size 6.
USA size 2
European size 34.
I am honestly, genuinely stunned. I knew the general effects of giving carbs up was beneficial, but this, frankly, is an utter bonus. The Glacé cherry on the iced Victoria sponge cake.
(Shoot. That's carbs. ok, forget I said it!)
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silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
Woohoo! There's nothing like that feeling when a girl can slink into smaller size denims. Kudos!
(Yeah, work on those metaphors, though.)
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Awesome! Congrats @federica!
Last year I bought a pair of capris on sale and they didn't fit. I shoved them in the drawer. Before we went on vacation, I figured maybe I could bring them with this year, nope, too big Can't win
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Funny how a boatload of 'naysayers' who pooh-poo'ed the concept of eliminating carbs, insisted I needed them, told me it was unwise to cut them out, ridiculed my regimen and called it a 'fad' are now the very ones quietly sidling up to me and subtly asking me how it's going, what I'm doing, what they could do and "I can't believe you've kept the weight off!"
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Today:
Hubby - 172lbs
Me - 107lbs
off on our holiday next week (first holiday for ten years!) we are heading for Naples, home of the Margherita Pizza, Spaghetti alle Vongole, Sfogliatelle, and Limoncello.
Wish us Luck - we're gonna need it....!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I have no idea whether it was hormonal, or a touch of 'Keto 'Flu' but yesterday I felt worse than last week's dog's dinner. My head was close to exploding (really bad migraine) and in the late afternoon/evening - well, let's just say my insides where kindly liquidising everything! Much better today, but I have upped my intake of fluids, electrolytes and salt.... so feeling good.... Ugh. Don't want to go through that again, no sirree, no way.....
I have been pleasantly surprised when we have gone on any holiday, long or short. When we went too HI, I paid attention to what I ate, but wasn't overly obsessive. I wanted to try their cultural foods, so I did. I didn't go crazy, but ate more carbs than normal for sure. I gained 1 pounds, and it was gone the week after we got back. Was totally worth it.
We went last weekend for a family weekend out of town, and I hate horribly. So horribly. Gained half a pound. In this case, it wasn't really worth it, so that was a lesson learned. We visited a city I used to live in, so I toured to my favorite place and ate when I used to love. Not so much anymore, just didn't taste nearly as good as I remembered. And because I ate bad food (versus the somewhat healthy but carby Hawaiian food) I felt like crap for several days after. It was like having a hang over. So that one isn't something I'll do again. My carb count wasn't much, but I ate fast food one day (blech) and fried food the next day, along with Chinese takeout.
So anyhow, for me, I didn't gain a bunch either way, but in one case it was worth going off the wagon for a bit, and in the other case it totally wasn't. Next time we do family weekends away, I will plan better. I am bringing my son back to college this weekend, so I will be on the road and eating that way as a result, but I have a much better plan! Otherwise, I get hangry and just eat what I can find.
Oh, and have a wonderful time!! I hope it's a fabulous holiday for you both. Sorry you were feeling ill and glad it's better. I seem to get a similar thing on occasion but I think it's just been a virus in my case, usually lasts 12-18 hours. Broth always helps for me once I have a chance of keeping it in
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silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
I'm happily stunned...I discovered that I've lost a stone and one or two pounds since about two months ago.
I have been working towards a more 'perfect' IF / Keto food plan. I've been watching a lot of YT vids - the biggest boon for me, is I started to binge-watch a UK tv show called Supersize vs. Superskinny, and it's been such a help and inspiration. (Plus different folks talking about IF and Keto diets and nutrition in general.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Well done @silver - unfortunately, as expected, I put weight on during our holiday. To say LCHF was difficult to maintain would be a tragic understatement....
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Here's the thing:
We booked our holiday 'blind'; that is, it was a last-minute booking via a company on the internet called 'airbnb'... turns out we stayed in the very poorest quarter of Naples, down a little alleyway just off the famous 'SpaccaNapoli.'
It is at least 2 miles long, (although the Wiki article states it's a mile long, it really isn't....) very straight and cuts the lowest quarter of Naples neatly into 2. There are bars, pizzerias pasticcerias, snack bars and a countless number of tacky, cheap souvenir shops all along its length. The shops selling 'serious' products ( clothes, jewellery, pharmacies, household décor, appliances, accessories) all re-opened after their Ferragosto break, around the 26th. So there is a lot of tat and crap interspersed with small oases of quality goods.
The downside is the sheer number of immigrant beggars constantly accosting the unwary tourist, but many wear clothing that is new, modern, and they are by and large well groomed and fresh out of a shower... Bizarre...
What's more, not a single square inch is spared from pointless, meaningless graffiti. If it at least had some political, social, humanitarian meaning, it would be understandable. But it's all just spray for the sake of spraying. Filling an unwilling gap with a 'scarabocchio' of mess. Sad. Naples is ancient. Its historic significance is matchless. I was originally founded in 7BC, and its domination of global commerce, trade and financial power makes for fascinating reading. And here it is, reduced to a drawing pad for the disillusioned teenager.
Talk about a mis-spent youth...
Because of the sheer poverty of the area (which contrasts strangely with the type of tourists there) Naples is drowning in a vast and monotonous sea of carbohydrates. Where is the so-called 'Mediterranean Diet' that is supposedly the corner-stone of vibrant gastronomic health? "Disparu". Pizzas, panini, pastries, pastas... The 4 'P's of the cuisine apocalypse. I can't wait to get back to my LCHF habits.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
retrieved this fabulous recipe from a friend on another website (The sections in Italic, are my additions):
Custard / base:
6 eggs
1 cup of heavy cream (you can also sub with sour cream, ricotta, etc.)
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 tsp pepper
any other spices you like. (I like to add turmeric and paprika, and if you're feeling adventurous, a couple of chilli flakes will add to the flavour dimensions! It depends on your meat ingredient, of course!)
Cheeses:
5-6 ounces of one more types of cheese, grated, cubed, or crumbled
(I love using feta, Swiss, Jarlsberg, Gouda, Cheddar, Gruyere, grated Mozzarella, but any kind you like is fine--cream cheese works best if using smoked salmon). To really add a punch, if you're adventurous, a blue cheese, such as Gorgonzola, Dolcelatte or even Stilton, could also work well.
1-2 ounces grated Parmesan or Asiago for the "crust". I also add a bit of ground linseed or Chia seeds, for a bit of filling crunch.
Add-ins:
Meats: Smoked salmon, bacon lardons, diced sausage, or diced ham, chicken, shredded beef, finely diced pork...
Veggies: Diced mushrooms, finely chopped onion, or onion sliced into thin rings, snipped scallions, diced shallot, chopped broccoli, chopped spinach, zucchini, aubergines, red/green/yellow peppers.... the world is your oyster!
Preheat oven to 375F/180C
In a skillet, heat 1 tsp bacon grease or coconut oil or chosen cooking grease, and when hot, add your chosen veggies/meats (assuming it's precooked bacon/sausage--otherwise you'll need to saute these in a pan first--ham is already fully-cooked). Saute and toss frequently, making sure that the liquid is evaporated from veggies and the meats/veg are tender. Set aside to cool a bit.
While that's cooking, whisk the eggs, cream, and seasonings (except the ground pepper!) for 1-2 minutes with an immersion blender, ideally using thea baloon whisk attachment (a hand mixer/whisk at high speed will put more air into the mix). Beat until frothy and doubled in volume. Make sure your bowl is higher and wider than needed - this stuff can swell up pretty big!
Put your sauteed vegetables/meats, into a high-sided pie dish (avoid adding the frying oil/grease), and scatter your crumbled/diced/shredded cheeses over the ingredients. Then carefully pour your egg mix over all. Now add the pepper after pouring. Ading the pepper now, ensures it doesn't sink to the bottom of the dish (I found this out on previous bakes!) Then sprinkle the grated Parmesan/Asiago all around the edges of the egg dish, to make a nice, cheesy crispy edge. (Mix the grated cheese with the ground linseed and/or chia, if used, before sprinkling. You can also used ground almonds or walnuts.)
Bake at 375/180 for 40-45 minutes until it puffs up high and dry and a toothpick or knife comes out dry. Just like a souffle, these things take testing out, and maybe it's more like an hour for your oven, instead of 45 minutes. If for some reason the middle is still a little soft, remove the pie from the oven, turn down your oven to a slightly cooler setting (320/160) let it cool to this temperature, and THEN put the pie back in for another 10 minutes or so.
Let the pie cool, if you're not going to eat it immediately; then cover the pie dish and set in the fridge 4 hours or overnight and cut after completely chilled. I find this is the best way to slice it, otherwise, it's sort of craggy when cutting and since it's so heavy when it's hot, gets sloppy when serving and sometimes the pieces break. But frankly, who cares - !?
Tastes great warmed up in the oven or microwave, or served cold. But since it is a custard, it's best to make it ahead of when you want to eat it. If I want it hot, it takes 40-60 seconds in the microwave; I am sitting down to breakfast in less than 5 minutes even on a weekday!
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JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
That's like my favourite quiche recipe without the pastry base...
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Yup, that's basically what it is, I guess, and a cross between that and a Tortilla Española without the potatoes....
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Aaaah, 90-second bread, how do I love thee? Breakfast: Couple of chunks with a couple of 97%meat sausages and a dollop of cream cheese....! Mmmmm!!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Made some ACV before going on holiday.... to my utter and total delight, I have an ACV SCOBY!!! going to make brewing new batches so much quicker, now!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I read a good article in a UK magazine about comments thin people have to endure. To be sure, I guess 'Fat shaming' is a thing and a 'bad' one at that, but it appears that given the general condition of the population at large, and the levels of obesity one sees, it seems that now, the unusual (ie, thin and healthy) are coming under scrutiny and attack. 'Thin Shaming' is also 'a thing'.
I've been told - more than once - that I'm very thin.
I've tried to think of suitable responses, and one which was mentioned in the article, in reply to the 'you're too thin' comment, was ..."For what...?"
Another one is to tackle the comment head on and retort, "Oh, so 'Thin-Shaming' is a thing now? Would you tell a person they're too fat? So what's the difference in telling me I'm 'too thin'...? I'm fit, healthy, I eat a good diet, and I'm happy. So what's YOUR problem?"
I hear those things sometimes! "you need a hamburger or 10" not directed at me, but others. Cripes, how rude.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited September 2017
So, can we think of any witty, non-confrontational retorts which could all at once, crack a smile AND put the person in their place? I think the two above are suitable in some circumstances... do they cover the bases?
I think they work, I would be more likely to use the first one as I'm not a terribly confrontational person.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I think it would depend on (a) my feeling for the person saying it and/or (b) my mood at the time....
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
Just joining the conversation, I'm probably just a little behind.
I've come to the opinion that nutrition science is across the board pretty bad. It is very resistant to quality studies since it is really hard to get one group to stick to a particular diet and another group to be a control. So scientists either study mice or try to parse out data from other surveys, which really only shows correlation and can't really get at causation because they don't control for outside factors.
Also people really react to differing foods and diets very differently. For example, some people's glucose spikes when eating rice and not ice cream while for others it's the opposite (the study I saw more people spiked to rice than ice cream).
For myself, I'm resistant to diet trends. I'm always wary that somebody is selling some idea either for profit or simply because they are a true believer.
I've adopted Michael Pollan's basic strategy, "eat real food, mostly plants, not too much". And then I like to track what I eat with My Fitness Pal. It's too hard to figure out what's the "best" diet so I figure I'm mostly eating healthy and I guess that seems to be working out ok, for now at least.
even studies where people are kept in-patient results are inconsistent. Our bodies and their needs for a billion different reasons are just too different to clean consistent results with the way scientific method demands them. Ice cream doesn't spike glucose as bad or as fast because it is combined with a good dose of fat and some protein, which slows the absorption of the sugar. Rice is nothing but carbs, though white vs brown vs wild does make a difference.
I ate entirely plants for several weeks. gained weight.It's just too many carbs for me when having to add in things like legumes, lentils and quinoa for carbs. Just did not work for my body, unfortunately. Low carb is the only thing that has worked for me, but low carb is historically how my ancestors (as in grandparents and beyond, not cavemen) ate because of their climate. Sometimes it's a matter of correcting a body way out of balance and it can be brought in balance and a more normal diet resumed. Sometimes not. Low carb isn't really a diet trend though. People ate that way in many regions of the world for a long time before people started low carb diets.
I've been studying nutrition and fitness/anatomy for 25 years now, and after spending 8 years trying to lose the weight from my last pregnancy, this is what is working. thankfully, because even though I wasn't into obesity range, it was impacting my health.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited September 2017
Thanks for our input, @person; I think you're right in saying (I'm paraphrasing) that it's hard to get a handle on reliable information due to the diverse methods adopted to reach conclusions. But although I do not have the same history as @karasti with regard to the study of nutrition, I too have had a mixed experience over the years, of eating different things and finding what works.
For example, there is a group on MyFitnessPal (MFP) called 'The Low-Carber Carnivore Club' which adheres to a diet that completely does away with vegetables altogether. Most people on there are absolutely fine, fit and healthy. They live by a regimen that includes all meats, fish and dairy, with some egg. All products and by-products of the 'Meat camp'. Me? I tried it for a week, and - well, let's just say the intestinal digestive fall-out was disastrous.
Ergo, I proved to myself that I need dietary fibre/roughage and whatever other benefits I personally can glean from including vegetables in my diet. I need to cut down on some cheeses though, as some cause bloat. But I can live with that.
The LCHF forum I participate in (also a sub-forum on MFP), is absolutely choc-a-bloc full of people whose lives have been drastically altered - for the better - by following a lifestyle that eliminates simple, starchy carbohydrates. Many people have medical conditions (the most common being Diabetes types I & II) but others have circulatory problems, heart conditions, and other medical complaints too numerous to mention. But they're all there, because LCHF works for them. And there s a huge amount of evidence to support this. Not only that, but dietary authorities are also coming round to this way of thinking.
A group of doctors who specialise in treating specific conditions (DType1 & II, kidney disease, liver disease, cardiologists) are lobbying the American Dietary Association to change its advice, having established that the current dietary advice, which underpins the SAD, is disastrously wrong, damaging and even life-threatening.
And they have case studies, plus the profiles of hundreds of their patients, whose lives have been changed by the implementation of a LCHF regimen, to prove it.
A programme on UKTV, only two nights ago, tentatively explored the notion that all fats - bar trans-fats - are actually better for you than originally thought.
They also recommended the consumption of full-fat dairy products and even stated that veined cheeses were very good for you due to the increase of beneficial bacteria.
And Dr Michael Mosely is moving mountains here, in the promotion of why intermittent fasting is a really beneficial thing to follow.
Well it's about bloody time!
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. (I'm not even going to ask you to pardon that one!)
Statistics, studies and experiments are one thing.
Looking at verifiable clinical data, and actually talking to people who have been there and done that, is quite another.
I've been there, and done that.
It works.
For me. And, it would seem, hundreds of others.
I admire your resistance to trends and fads. I'm the same, and I thoroughly research - a lot - before getting to grips with anything (Ehipassiko?). But when something is so overwhelmingly persuasive, it helps to test the waters albeit for a specified period of time, to run a personal n=1 trial and try it yourself.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I didn't read any of the thread, I just felt like giving my two cents on nutrition. So my comments are really directed at diets and nutrition generally and not really specifically at LCHF.
Most diets are based on good ideas and reasoned, educated approaches. What I mean by the science being bad is that they can't really do sound clinical trials on the diets to see if it actually works in the field, or what percent or type of people it works for, not that the biology is wrong.
In the end if it works for you then it works.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I would therefore respectfully suggest you read the thread, because much exhaustive and thorough research has been done on LCHF, and the findings actually answer - if not contradict - your own opinion.
And I say that with no criticism or rancour.
I'm just glad to report that something, at last, stands up to scrutiny, and is NOT found wanting.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited September 2017
My H and I were watching a quiz programme, and one of the contestants was asked what she would do if she won the prize money. She replied she wanted to open a little restaurant with her daughter, producing a menu and dishes based on a 'Banting Diet', which is - wait for it - Low carb high fat.
I'd never heard of it, but apparently - well, see for yourselves.
Amazing to think that this was a popular way of thought all the way back in the 1800's. Then, the shit (diet) hit the fan....
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited September 2017
@person, THIS might well be of interest to you, too.
A great read for everyone - if you haven't already seen it, @Tosh , @karasti , @Bunks ...
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
@federica said: @person, THIS might well be of interest to you, too.
A great read for everyone - if you haven't already seen it, @Tosh , @karasti , @Bunks ...
Thanks, in a way though it kind of makes my point, that nutrition and diets are mostly educated guesses based on biology and anecdotal experimentation.
The section on "Who should measure and why" starts off by saying that more and more people are experimenting with ketogenic diets and the word might is used often. I give the author lots of credit for using that language rather than certainty.
I find that most of what I've learned about LCHF is based on sound biology and reasonable and lots of people definitely benefit from it. But when it comes to actual good studies on how effective and for what percent of the population certain diets work the science isn't very robust.
I'm not saying that LCHF is just some fad diet or that it is only placebo that makes it work. I'm really not even talking about the specifics of the diet at all. I'm trying to make a broader point about science and how we know what we know, what is hypothesis and what crosses the threshold of solid evidence. There are issues today with how scientific studies are published and replicability, so one or two small studies on a subject to my mind can't really qualify as definitive. Things change fast though so maybe I'm out of date and haven't become aware of new findings yet.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I largely agree with you; one day, coffee is bad for us, then it isn't. Red wine is bad for us - then it isn't. Women have been told to NOT drink during pregnancy - then we discover that actually, there is no evidence to support that a glass of wine a day, or now and then, is in any way actually harmful (though of course, we need not go into the highly negative consequences of ANYONE drinking to excess).
And let's not talk about the studies on butter vs Margarine!!
So yes, I completely understand your rationale and logic behind the criteria considered in accepting/rejecting the data on a raft of countless studies and reports.
That said, being a confirmed cynic myself (and I leave well alone all the scientific studies which leave me both cold and dumbfounded, if the subject matter is totally beyond my comprehension. And a lot of it is...!) I can honestly say I haven't yet come across any consistent data which convinces me that the lifestyle I have adopted is in any way detrimental to my health, or negative in eventual results.
I accept: It is not for everyone.
But I have read a substantial amount of data and evidence, put forward by the likes of several specialists and doctors, (much of which is given here by way of links, videos and articles) to convince me completely, that what I am doing is sound, healthy, reliable and about as unlike a fad as anything I could otherwise consider.
But I get where you're coming from, which is why I did ask or suggest you peruse the thread more closely.
That said, the eventual consideration and conclusion, is understandably, up to you.
I think a lot of the reason you find studies that say "x is bad for you!" "whoops, actually x is good for you!" is a lot due to that individual expression and biology. Most studies are voluntary, in that people sign up for them or are recruited by doctors for them. So particular types of people are likely to be interested in certain types of diet studies for many reasons. Including reasons they don't have a clue about and neither do the scientists. So it's easier to see how a group of people already unconsciously biased about how they believe wine affects them would choose a study to see if that's the case. And often when we learn how to listen to our bodies we know when something isn't ideal for us. But even if science agrees, that doesn't mean that it's bad for everyone.
Not all that long ago, we didn't have a world of choices for our food. We couldn't decide to be living in Texas and want to eat a lot of north Atlantic fish. We couldn't be someone in Canada who ate a lot of pineapple and so on. It seems to me that there are probably good reasons why people in certain regions thrive on the foods that grow/live naturally in those regions. And why the expansion away from that has seen such immense effects. If I had to live on what was available here naturally, I would be eating a lot of meat and fish and dairy products and not much fruit. Because very little fruit grows here, and when it does, it's only a couple months a year. In fact plants are entirely unavailable here 8 months a year. Yet people live in this climate a long time before refrigeration and grocery stores, and my immediate ancestors (say 150 years back) lived in the same climate as I currently do. So it makes sense to me that I do best on a diet similar to what they ate, even as recent as most of the years my grandparents were alive (the last of whom died just 2 years ago). Which is why I reject studies that claim that certain diets are the best for all of humanity, because it's simply not true.
I have my concerns about the dna testing that's available for ancestry testing and so on, but I admit the nutrition-based one piques my curiosity just to know if what I have found out about myself so far carries over into what my genetics show. But for $300, it's not in the cards right now!
@person, not disagreeing with you by any means, I largely agree with you. Just adding my own thoughts to what you said already.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
@karasti said:
I think a lot of the reason you find studies that say "x is bad for you!" "whoops, actually x is good for you!" is a lot due to that individual expression and biology. Most studies are voluntary, in that people sign up for them or are recruited by doctors for them. So particular types of people are likely to be interested in certain types of diet studies for many reasons. Including reasons they don't have a clue about and neither do the scientists. So it's easier to see how a group of people already unconsciously biased about how they believe wine affects them would choose a study to see if that's the case. And often when we learn how to listen to our bodies we know when something isn't ideal for us. But even if science agrees, that doesn't mean that it's bad for everyone.
Not all that long ago, we didn't have a world of choices for our food. We couldn't decide to be living in Texas and want to eat a lot of north Atlantic fish. We couldn't be someone in Canada who ate a lot of pineapple and so on. It seems to me that there are probably good reasons why people in certain regions thrive on the foods that grow/live naturally in those regions. And why the expansion away from that has seen such immense effects. If I had to live on what was available here naturally, I would be eating a lot of meat and fish and dairy products and not much fruit. Because very little fruit grows here, and when it does, it's only a couple months a year. In fact plants are entirely unavailable here 8 months a year. Yet people live in this climate a long time before refrigeration and grocery stores, and my immediate ancestors (say 150 years back) lived in the same climate as I currently do. So it makes sense to me that I do best on a diet similar to what they ate, even as recent as most of the years my grandparents were alive (the last of whom died just 2 years ago). Which is why I reject studies that claim that certain diets are the best for all of humanity, because it's simply not true.
I have my concerns about the dna testing that's available for ancestry testing and so on, but I admit the nutrition-based one piques my curiosity just to know if what I have found out about myself so far carries over into what my genetics show. But for $300, it's not in the cards right now!
@person, not disagreeing with you by any means, I largely agree with you. Just adding my own thoughts to what you said already.
Yeah, that's part of what I was trying to say with the example of some people's glucose spiking to rice and not to ice cream while with others it was the opposite. I doubt there is a "best" diet for everyone. Many people will benefit from LCHF, but is it 80% of people, 50%, 20%? My genes from my mom's side has very good insulin regulation, there is a lot of dessert and pastry eating but no one has diabetes and my glucose always tests very good and eating "good" fats has very little if any effect on my HDL cholesterol.
I think I jumped into this thread as a result of listening to a conversation about diet where all manner of things were being raised as things to avoid and do. Like eating eggs is as bad for you as smoking cigarettes, we are all seriously deficient in iodine, things like that.
For sure. Of all the reading and studying I've done, the only real conclusion to be reached is that at this point, science is not very good at figuring out this stuff because our individual constitutions are just all so different for so many reasons. It's unfortunate in today's world because it basically requires people to experiment, like you said, on themselves to find what works. And few people these days are willing to put in the work required to find out what works. They just want someone to tell them what to do to fix them, and even more than that, they want something that works overnight.
For myself, I find the human body fascinating, and I love learning about it. I can't imagine not wanting to know how it works as best as we can figure, anyways!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@karasti said: .... It's unfortunate in today's world because it basically requires people to experiment, like you said, on themselves to find what works. And few people these days are willing to put in the work required to find out what works. They just want someone to tell them what to do to fix them, and even more than that, they want something that works overnight.
Totally agree, @karasti , I think, if I am not mistaken, I mentioned something along those lines earlier; incorporating anything new into our lives requires changing what we do, discipline, dedication, perseverance, time and patience. And when people ask what I'm doing, and how, they more often than not, reply that they couldn't possibly give up 'this, that and the other' to which I am always seriously tempted to respond, "Well stay fat then...." (But I don't. )
I've noticed with our swift change to fall that my cravings for carbs are way up. I haven't had them in months, not since I started lchf in March, actually. But wow, I find them challenging now! In the summer I was eating some yogurt and fruit (and staying under my carb goal of 38g a day) but since my desire for those has decreased with our 30 degree temp drop, I've added a little sweet potato to my eggs in the morning. I will probably do a beef stew and add a little squash to that. I've been surprised at the cravings coming on basically over night. I feel like I am fighting them 10 times harder than ever. Hoping it's just a phase that'll pass swiftly enough. If it was just sweet potato that would be one thing, but it is an actual struggle to pull myself away from the cookie and candy aisle when I am shopping, LOL. Thankfully, my husband is my partner in this and steers me away, reminding me I won't even enjoy it and will feel crappy later. Which is true.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I would suggest (although I have absolutely no proof to substantiate this) that your seasonal appetite is kicking in. Yang foods in Summer (salads, light meals) and Yin (dense, heavy, sub-soil) in Winter.
This, I think, is your body-clock saying "I need to fatten up and set store for the winter" and it's exactly the way we used to eat, before every manner of ingredient was available all year round.
I'm sure that that is it, especially with out lengthy and quite cold winter climate. I just am at a loss for what to change to at this point because everything I've done since spring has worked out so well and everything I normally feel for in the fall has come back with a vengeance, lol. Most of the stuff we'd eat at this point is carb-heavy. I had half a sweet potato the other day that was almost 30g. That's my entire day! But trying to stick to what I've been eating the past 6 months is just resulting in me feeling hungry and dissatisfied all of a sudden which then leaves me crabby and tired. Perhaps some curry is in order.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I have heard about the rice, I didn't know it worked with other starches. Might have to experiment with that and see what happens. Truthfully, a little is enough, i don't need a huge plate like I used to eat. I do think curry might work well too, since I can pack it with chicken and shrimp, lol. It has that creamy comfort food feel to it. It does not help that it rained 70% of our summer days, and fall hasn't been much better. It has been raining since Friday night and it just gets so old!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I know; the summer hasn't been much to write about here, either... the leaves are turning, and slowly dropping from the trees, and it's autumn for sure, but we haven't had summer yet - ! I mean, what the actual f... is going on...?!
I have some wonderful pork in the freezer I might stew in my crockpot, to make a good heartwarming meal or two.... I have pre-roasted whole barley I can add as a bit of substance... Wonder if that's starch-resistant??
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Update: Barley is one of the best starch-resistant grains around. In fact, according to this - it's better than rice....
For those that enjoy following my trials and tribulations, lol. I've still been having awful carb cravings. I did do the rice trick and had a little (half cup) of day old rice with my curry. I haven't been eating junk food, just added some more typically healthy carbs in since my cravings were awful. Had half a sweet potato with my eggs, had some roasted beets and carrots from the garden.
Over 2 weeks, even though my activity level is the same (I am on an 8 week strength program that I started a month ago), my calories are the same, switching my carbs from 38g a day to about 70g a day (all in low glycemix fruits and veggies) has resulted in my gaining 4 pounds in 2 weeks. My body just does not like to deal with carbs, even after 6 months on the low carb diet. So, I'm back on and still not sure how to deal with the intense "I must eat starchy comfort foods because hiberation is coming!!" phase that has now been approaching a month. The stuff that left me completely full and satisfied for months isn't cutting it anymore and I don't know how to change it up.
In 10 days I have to travel again, which is always difficult. By myself it's easy. I am completely content living on hotel eggs and sausage breakfast and stopping at the grocery store for the rest of my stuff. But my mom and I are going to visit my college kid, which is going to result in eating out. Hopefully I can at least convince them to forego any pasta places. Just feeling frustrated. Not as much at gaining weight as in not knowing what to do. It's not as if the cravings are like the ones I used to have for a piece of cake that would go away in a matter of hours, or a couple of days of PMS. They have been persistent for weeks and I don't know when to expect them to end. If it's not going to stop until the next seasonal change, it's going to be a long 2 months.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I'm convinced there is an AWFUL lot to be said for 'listening' to your body.
If you have a carb craving, no matter how much it has been proven that we don't actually NEED carbs as a nutritive component per se, sometimes, our bodies require something that has been classified as a Carbohydrate.
I would respectfully suggest eating moderate craved carbs, but also implementing a 2-day occasional fast? And keep your sodium intake up.
@federica I believe strongly in that as well, but I don't know if I should just graciously accept the weight gain for now and know it won't last forever, or what. I'm afraid that even in adding healthy things like small amounts of root veggies, extra greens, a little fruit (berries), even though it satisfies the cravings, I don't want to gain all my weight back.
I will give the occasional fasting a shot, maybe that will help. I have been keeping my sodium up, so I think that part is ok. I know that feeling guilty about it is NOT going to help my long term success, so I really need to just arrive at a place I am ok with for the time being and be happy with it, I guess. 2 weeks isn't that long, and it isn't entirely abnormal for me to gain a little, go back and then lose. So maybe it's just timing of my cycle or something (even though it's not quite the right time for that). Thanks, lady.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Careful over-doing it with the root veg, tho'...
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I gorged myself absolutely stupid yesterday, (and I DO mean, 'gorged'!) on loads of proteins, a meagre addition of carbs and a liberal dose of fats.
Dropped a pound. My skinny jeans are slightly baggy.
Go figure!
I'm still trying to get my head round the fact that there are some things I can absolutely stuff myself to the gunnels with, and it's still good for me.
WTF....?!
Comments
Ok, this works, guys.
I have just got into a pair of new jeans, in a size I haven't worn since before my eldest daughter was born.
UK Size 6.
USA size 2
European size 34.
I am honestly, genuinely stunned. I knew the general effects of giving carbs up was beneficial, but this, frankly, is an utter bonus. The Glacé cherry on the iced Victoria sponge cake.
(Shoot. That's carbs. ok, forget I said it!)
Woohoo! There's nothing like that feeling when a girl can slink into smaller size denims. Kudos!
(Yeah, work on those metaphors, though.)
yes, soooo NOT good!
Awesome! Congrats @federica!
Can't win 
Last year I bought a pair of capris on sale and they didn't fit. I shoved them in the drawer. Before we went on vacation, I figured maybe I could bring them with this year, nope, too big
Funny how a boatload of 'naysayers' who pooh-poo'ed the concept of eliminating carbs, insisted I needed them, told me it was unwise to cut them out, ridiculed my regimen and called it a 'fad' are now the very ones quietly sidling up to me and subtly asking me how it's going, what I'm doing, what they could do and "I can't believe you've kept the weight off!"
Today:
Hubby - 172lbs
Me - 107lbs
off on our holiday next week (first holiday for ten years!) we are heading for Naples, home of the Margherita Pizza, Spaghetti alle Vongole, Sfogliatelle, and Limoncello.
Wish us Luck - we're gonna need it....!
I have no idea whether it was hormonal, or a touch of 'Keto 'Flu' but yesterday I felt worse than last week's dog's dinner. My head was close to exploding (really bad migraine) and in the late afternoon/evening - well, let's just say my insides where kindly liquidising everything! Much better today, but I have upped my intake of fluids, electrolytes and salt.... so feeling good.... Ugh. Don't want to go through that again, no sirree, no way.....
I have been pleasantly surprised when we have gone on any holiday, long or short. When we went too HI, I paid attention to what I ate, but wasn't overly obsessive. I wanted to try their cultural foods, so I did. I didn't go crazy, but ate more carbs than normal for sure. I gained 1 pounds, and it was gone the week after we got back. Was totally worth it.
We went last weekend for a family weekend out of town, and I hate horribly. So horribly. Gained half a pound. In this case, it wasn't really worth it, so that was a lesson learned. We visited a city I used to live in, so I toured to my favorite place and ate when I used to love. Not so much anymore, just didn't taste nearly as good as I remembered. And because I ate bad food (versus the somewhat healthy but carby Hawaiian food) I felt like crap for several days after. It was like having a hang over. So that one isn't something I'll do again. My carb count wasn't much, but I ate fast food one day (blech) and fried food the next day, along with Chinese takeout.
So anyhow, for me, I didn't gain a bunch either way, but in one case it was worth going off the wagon for a bit, and in the other case it totally wasn't. Next time we do family weekends away, I will plan better. I am bringing my son back to college this weekend, so I will be on the road and eating that way as a result, but I have a much better plan! Otherwise, I get hangry and just eat what I can find.
Oh, and have a wonderful time!! I hope it's a fabulous holiday for you both. Sorry you were feeling ill and glad it's better. I seem to get a similar thing on occasion but I think it's just been a virus in my case, usually lasts 12-18 hours. Broth always helps for me once I have a chance of keeping it in
I'm happily stunned...I discovered that I've lost a stone and one or two pounds since about two months ago.
I have been working towards a more 'perfect' IF / Keto food plan. I've been watching a lot of YT vids - the biggest boon for me, is I started to binge-watch a UK tv show called Supersize vs. Superskinny, and it's been such a help and inspiration. (Plus different folks talking about IF and Keto diets and nutrition in general.
Well done @silver - unfortunately, as expected, I put weight on during our holiday. To say LCHF was difficult to maintain would be a tragic understatement....
Here's the thing:
We booked our holiday 'blind'; that is, it was a last-minute booking via a company on the internet called 'airbnb'... turns out we stayed in the very poorest quarter of Naples, down a little alleyway just off the famous 'SpaccaNapoli.'
It is at least 2 miles long, (although the Wiki article states it's a mile long, it really isn't....) very straight and cuts the lowest quarter of Naples neatly into 2. There are bars, pizzerias pasticcerias, snack bars and a countless number of tacky, cheap souvenir shops all along its length. The shops selling 'serious' products ( clothes, jewellery, pharmacies, household décor, appliances, accessories) all re-opened after their Ferragosto break, around the 26th. So there is a lot of tat and crap interspersed with small oases of quality goods.
The downside is the sheer number of immigrant beggars constantly accosting the unwary tourist, but many wear clothing that is new, modern, and they are by and large well groomed and fresh out of a shower... Bizarre...
What's more, not a single square inch is spared from pointless, meaningless graffiti. If it at least had some political, social, humanitarian meaning, it would be understandable. But it's all just spray for the sake of spraying. Filling an unwilling gap with a 'scarabocchio' of mess. Sad. Naples is ancient. Its historic significance is matchless. I was originally founded in 7BC, and its domination of global commerce, trade and financial power makes for fascinating reading. And here it is, reduced to a drawing pad for the disillusioned teenager.
Talk about a mis-spent youth...
Because of the sheer poverty of the area (which contrasts strangely with the type of tourists there) Naples is drowning in a vast and monotonous sea of carbohydrates. Where is the so-called 'Mediterranean Diet' that is supposedly the corner-stone of vibrant gastronomic health? "Disparu". Pizzas, panini, pastries, pastas... The 4 'P's of the cuisine apocalypse. I can't wait to get back to my LCHF habits.
retrieved this fabulous recipe from a friend on another website (The sections in Italic, are my additions):
Custard / base:
6 eggs
1 cup of heavy cream (you can also sub with sour cream, ricotta, etc.)
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 tsp pepper
any other spices you like. (I like to add turmeric and paprika, and if you're feeling adventurous, a couple of chilli flakes will add to the flavour dimensions! It depends on your meat ingredient, of course!)
Cheeses:
5-6 ounces of one more types of cheese, grated, cubed, or crumbled
(I love using feta, Swiss, Jarlsberg, Gouda, Cheddar, Gruyere, grated Mozzarella, but any kind you like is fine--cream cheese works best if using smoked salmon). To really add a punch, if you're adventurous, a blue cheese, such as Gorgonzola, Dolcelatte or even Stilton, could also work well.
1-2 ounces grated Parmesan or Asiago for the "crust". I also add a bit of ground linseed or Chia seeds, for a bit of filling crunch.
Add-ins:
Meats: Smoked salmon, bacon lardons, diced sausage, or diced ham, chicken, shredded beef, finely diced pork...
Veggies: Diced mushrooms, finely chopped onion, or onion sliced into thin rings, snipped scallions, diced shallot, chopped broccoli, chopped spinach, zucchini, aubergines, red/green/yellow peppers.... the world is your oyster!
Preheat oven to 375F/180C
In a skillet, heat 1 tsp bacon grease or coconut oil or chosen cooking grease, and when hot, add your chosen veggies/meats (assuming it's precooked bacon/sausage--otherwise you'll need to saute these in a pan first--ham is already fully-cooked). Saute and toss frequently, making sure that the liquid is evaporated from veggies and the meats/veg are tender. Set aside to cool a bit.
While that's cooking, whisk the eggs, cream, and seasonings (except the ground pepper!) for 1-2 minutes with an immersion blender, ideally using thea baloon whisk attachment (a hand mixer/whisk at high speed will put more air into the mix). Beat until frothy and doubled in volume. Make sure your bowl is higher and wider than needed - this stuff can swell up pretty big!
Put your sauteed vegetables/meats, into a high-sided pie dish (avoid adding the frying oil/grease), and scatter your crumbled/diced/shredded cheeses over the ingredients. Then carefully pour your egg mix over all. Now add the pepper after pouring. Ading the pepper now, ensures it doesn't sink to the bottom of the dish (I found this out on previous bakes!) Then sprinkle the grated Parmesan/Asiago all around the edges of the egg dish, to make a nice, cheesy crispy edge. (Mix the grated cheese with the ground linseed and/or chia, if used, before sprinkling. You can also used ground almonds or walnuts.)
Bake at 375/180 for 40-45 minutes until it puffs up high and dry and a toothpick or knife comes out dry. Just like a souffle, these things take testing out, and maybe it's more like an hour for your oven, instead of 45 minutes. If for some reason the middle is still a little soft, remove the pie from the oven, turn down your oven to a slightly cooler setting (320/160) let it cool to this temperature, and THEN put the pie back in for another 10 minutes or so.
Let the pie cool, if you're not going to eat it immediately; then cover the pie dish and set in the fridge 4 hours or overnight and cut after completely chilled. I find this is the best way to slice it, otherwise, it's sort of craggy when cutting and since it's so heavy when it's hot, gets sloppy when serving and sometimes the pieces break. But frankly, who cares - !?
Tastes great warmed up in the oven or microwave, or served cold. But since it is a custard, it's best to make it ahead of when you want to eat it. If I want it hot, it takes 40-60 seconds in the microwave; I am sitting down to breakfast in less than 5 minutes even on a weekday!
That's like my favourite quiche recipe without the pastry base...
Yup, that's basically what it is, I guess, and a cross between that and a Tortilla Española without the potatoes....
Aaaah, 90-second bread, how do I love thee? Breakfast: Couple of chunks with a couple of 97%meat sausages and a dollop of cream cheese....! Mmmmm!!
Made some ACV before going on holiday.... to my utter and total delight, I have an ACV SCOBY!!! going to make brewing new batches so much quicker, now!
I read a good article in a UK magazine about comments thin people have to endure. To be sure, I guess 'Fat shaming' is a thing and a 'bad' one at that, but it appears that given the general condition of the population at large, and the levels of obesity one sees, it seems that now, the unusual (ie, thin and healthy) are coming under scrutiny and attack. 'Thin Shaming' is also 'a thing'.
I've been told - more than once - that I'm very thin.
I've tried to think of suitable responses, and one which was mentioned in the article, in reply to the 'you're too thin' comment, was ..."For what...?"
Another one is to tackle the comment head on and retort, "Oh, so 'Thin-Shaming' is a thing now? Would you tell a person they're too fat? So what's the difference in telling me I'm 'too thin'...? I'm fit, healthy, I eat a good diet, and I'm happy. So what's YOUR problem?"
I hear those things sometimes! "you need a hamburger or 10" not directed at me, but others. Cripes, how rude.
So, can we think of any witty, non-confrontational retorts which could all at once, crack a smile AND put the person in their place? I think the two above are suitable in some circumstances... do they cover the bases?
I think they work, I would be more likely to use the first one as I'm not a terribly confrontational person.
I think it would depend on (a) my feeling for the person saying it and/or (b) my mood at the time....
Just joining the conversation, I'm probably just a little behind.
I've come to the opinion that nutrition science is across the board pretty bad. It is very resistant to quality studies since it is really hard to get one group to stick to a particular diet and another group to be a control. So scientists either study mice or try to parse out data from other surveys, which really only shows correlation and can't really get at causation because they don't control for outside factors.
Also people really react to differing foods and diets very differently. For example, some people's glucose spikes when eating rice and not ice cream while for others it's the opposite (the study I saw more people spiked to rice than ice cream).
For myself, I'm resistant to diet trends. I'm always wary that somebody is selling some idea either for profit or simply because they are a true believer.
I've adopted Michael Pollan's basic strategy, "eat real food, mostly plants, not too much". And then I like to track what I eat with My Fitness Pal. It's too hard to figure out what's the "best" diet so I figure I'm mostly eating healthy and I guess that seems to be working out ok, for now at least.
even studies where people are kept in-patient results are inconsistent. Our bodies and their needs for a billion different reasons are just too different to clean consistent results with the way scientific method demands them. Ice cream doesn't spike glucose as bad or as fast because it is combined with a good dose of fat and some protein, which slows the absorption of the sugar. Rice is nothing but carbs, though white vs brown vs wild does make a difference.
I ate entirely plants for several weeks. gained weight.It's just too many carbs for me when having to add in things like legumes, lentils and quinoa for carbs. Just did not work for my body, unfortunately. Low carb is the only thing that has worked for me, but low carb is historically how my ancestors (as in grandparents and beyond, not cavemen) ate because of their climate. Sometimes it's a matter of correcting a body way out of balance and it can be brought in balance and a more normal diet resumed. Sometimes not. Low carb isn't really a diet trend though. People ate that way in many regions of the world for a long time before people started low carb diets.
I've been studying nutrition and fitness/anatomy for 25 years now, and after spending 8 years trying to lose the weight from my last pregnancy, this is what is working. thankfully, because even though I wasn't into obesity range, it was impacting my health.
Thanks for our input, @person; I think you're right in saying (I'm paraphrasing) that it's hard to get a handle on reliable information due to the diverse methods adopted to reach conclusions. But although I do not have the same history as @karasti with regard to the study of nutrition, I too have had a mixed experience over the years, of eating different things and finding what works.
For example, there is a group on MyFitnessPal (MFP) called 'The Low-Carber Carnivore Club' which adheres to a diet that completely does away with vegetables altogether. Most people on there are absolutely fine, fit and healthy. They live by a regimen that includes all meats, fish and dairy, with some egg. All products and by-products of the 'Meat camp'. Me? I tried it for a week, and - well, let's just say the intestinal digestive fall-out was disastrous.
Ergo, I proved to myself that I need dietary fibre/roughage and whatever other benefits I personally can glean from including vegetables in my diet. I need to cut down on some cheeses though, as some cause bloat. But I can live with that.
The LCHF forum I participate in (also a sub-forum on MFP), is absolutely choc-a-bloc full of people whose lives have been drastically altered - for the better - by following a lifestyle that eliminates simple, starchy carbohydrates. Many people have medical conditions (the most common being Diabetes types I & II) but others have circulatory problems, heart conditions, and other medical complaints too numerous to mention. But they're all there, because LCHF works for them. And there s a huge amount of evidence to support this. Not only that, but dietary authorities are also coming round to this way of thinking.
A group of doctors who specialise in treating specific conditions (DType1 & II, kidney disease, liver disease, cardiologists) are lobbying the American Dietary Association to change its advice, having established that the current dietary advice, which underpins the SAD, is disastrously wrong, damaging and even life-threatening.
And they have case studies, plus the profiles of hundreds of their patients, whose lives have been changed by the implementation of a LCHF regimen, to prove it.
A programme on UKTV, only two nights ago, tentatively explored the notion that all fats - bar trans-fats - are actually better for you than originally thought.
They also recommended the consumption of full-fat dairy products and even stated that veined cheeses were very good for you due to the increase of beneficial bacteria.
And Dr Michael Mosely is moving mountains here, in the promotion of why intermittent fasting is a really beneficial thing to follow.
Well it's about bloody time!
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. (I'm not even going to ask you to pardon that one!)
Statistics, studies and experiments are one thing.
Looking at verifiable clinical data, and actually talking to people who have been there and done that, is quite another.
I've been there, and done that.
It works.
For me. And, it would seem, hundreds of others.
I admire your resistance to trends and fads. I'm the same, and I thoroughly research - a lot - before getting to grips with anything (Ehipassiko?). But when something is so overwhelmingly persuasive, it helps to test the waters albeit for a specified period of time, to run a personal n=1 trial and try it yourself.
I didn't read any of the thread, I just felt like giving my two cents on nutrition. So my comments are really directed at diets and nutrition generally and not really specifically at LCHF.
Most diets are based on good ideas and reasoned, educated approaches. What I mean by the science being bad is that they can't really do sound clinical trials on the diets to see if it actually works in the field, or what percent or type of people it works for, not that the biology is wrong.
In the end if it works for you then it works.
I would therefore respectfully suggest you read the thread, because much exhaustive and thorough research has been done on LCHF, and the findings actually answer - if not contradict - your own opinion.
And I say that with no criticism or rancour.
I'm just glad to report that something, at last, stands up to scrutiny, and is NOT found wanting.
My H and I were watching a quiz programme, and one of the contestants was asked what she would do if she won the prize money. She replied she wanted to open a little restaurant with her daughter, producing a menu and dishes based on a 'Banting Diet', which is - wait for it - Low carb high fat.
I'd never heard of it, but apparently - well, see for yourselves.
Who knew - ?!
https://realmealrevolution.com/the-facts
Banting's published pamphlet, 3rd Edition.
Amazing to think that this was a popular way of thought all the way back in the 1800's. Then, the shit (diet) hit the fan....
@person, THIS might well be of interest to you, too.
A great read for everyone - if you haven't already seen it, @Tosh , @karasti , @Bunks ...
Thanks, in a way though it kind of makes my point, that nutrition and diets are mostly educated guesses based on biology and anecdotal experimentation.
The section on "Who should measure and why" starts off by saying that more and more people are experimenting with ketogenic diets and the word might is used often. I give the author lots of credit for using that language rather than certainty.
I find that most of what I've learned about LCHF is based on sound biology and reasonable and lots of people definitely benefit from it. But when it comes to actual good studies on how effective and for what percent of the population certain diets work the science isn't very robust.
I liked this article the best on the topic
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/science-compared-every-diet-and-the-winner-is-real-food/284595/
I'm not saying that LCHF is just some fad diet or that it is only placebo that makes it work. I'm really not even talking about the specifics of the diet at all. I'm trying to make a broader point about science and how we know what we know, what is hypothesis and what crosses the threshold of solid evidence. There are issues today with how scientific studies are published and replicability, so one or two small studies on a subject to my mind can't really qualify as definitive. Things change fast though so maybe I'm out of date and haven't become aware of new findings yet.
I largely agree with you; one day, coffee is bad for us, then it isn't. Red wine is bad for us - then it isn't. Women have been told to NOT drink during pregnancy - then we discover that actually, there is no evidence to support that a glass of wine a day, or now and then, is in any way actually harmful (though of course, we need not go into the highly negative consequences of ANYONE drinking to excess).
And let's not talk about the studies on butter vs Margarine!!
So yes, I completely understand your rationale and logic behind the criteria considered in accepting/rejecting the data on a raft of countless studies and reports.
That said, being a confirmed cynic myself (and I leave well alone all the scientific studies which leave me both cold and dumbfounded, if the subject matter is totally beyond my comprehension. And a lot of it is...!) I can honestly say I haven't yet come across any consistent data which convinces me that the lifestyle I have adopted is in any way detrimental to my health, or negative in eventual results.
I accept: It is not for everyone.
But I have read a substantial amount of data and evidence, put forward by the likes of several specialists and doctors, (much of which is given here by way of links, videos and articles) to convince me completely, that what I am doing is sound, healthy, reliable and about as unlike a fad as anything I could otherwise consider.
But I get where you're coming from, which is why I did ask or suggest you peruse the thread more closely.
That said, the eventual consideration and conclusion, is understandably, up to you.
I think a lot of the reason you find studies that say "x is bad for you!" "whoops, actually x is good for you!" is a lot due to that individual expression and biology. Most studies are voluntary, in that people sign up for them or are recruited by doctors for them. So particular types of people are likely to be interested in certain types of diet studies for many reasons. Including reasons they don't have a clue about and neither do the scientists. So it's easier to see how a group of people already unconsciously biased about how they believe wine affects them would choose a study to see if that's the case. And often when we learn how to listen to our bodies we know when something isn't ideal for us. But even if science agrees, that doesn't mean that it's bad for everyone.
Not all that long ago, we didn't have a world of choices for our food. We couldn't decide to be living in Texas and want to eat a lot of north Atlantic fish. We couldn't be someone in Canada who ate a lot of pineapple and so on. It seems to me that there are probably good reasons why people in certain regions thrive on the foods that grow/live naturally in those regions. And why the expansion away from that has seen such immense effects. If I had to live on what was available here naturally, I would be eating a lot of meat and fish and dairy products and not much fruit. Because very little fruit grows here, and when it does, it's only a couple months a year. In fact plants are entirely unavailable here 8 months a year. Yet people live in this climate a long time before refrigeration and grocery stores, and my immediate ancestors (say 150 years back) lived in the same climate as I currently do. So it makes sense to me that I do best on a diet similar to what they ate, even as recent as most of the years my grandparents were alive (the last of whom died just 2 years ago). Which is why I reject studies that claim that certain diets are the best for all of humanity, because it's simply not true.
I have my concerns about the dna testing that's available for ancestry testing and so on, but I admit the nutrition-based one piques my curiosity just to know if what I have found out about myself so far carries over into what my genetics show. But for $300, it's not in the cards right now!
@person, not disagreeing with you by any means, I largely agree with you. Just adding my own thoughts to what you said already.
Yeah, that's part of what I was trying to say with the example of some people's glucose spiking to rice and not to ice cream while with others it was the opposite. I doubt there is a "best" diet for everyone. Many people will benefit from LCHF, but is it 80% of people, 50%, 20%? My genes from my mom's side has very good insulin regulation, there is a lot of dessert and pastry eating but no one has diabetes and my glucose always tests very good and eating "good" fats has very little if any effect on my HDL cholesterol.
I think I jumped into this thread as a result of listening to a conversation about diet where all manner of things were being raised as things to avoid and do. Like eating eggs is as bad for you as smoking cigarettes, we are all seriously deficient in iodine, things like that.
For sure. Of all the reading and studying I've done, the only real conclusion to be reached is that at this point, science is not very good at figuring out this stuff because our individual constitutions are just all so different for so many reasons. It's unfortunate in today's world because it basically requires people to experiment, like you said, on themselves to find what works. And few people these days are willing to put in the work required to find out what works. They just want someone to tell them what to do to fix them, and even more than that, they want something that works overnight.
For myself, I find the human body fascinating, and I love learning about it. I can't imagine not wanting to know how it works as best as we can figure, anyways!
Totally agree, @karasti , I think, if I am not mistaken, I mentioned something along those lines earlier; incorporating anything new into our lives requires changing what we do, discipline, dedication, perseverance, time and patience. And when people ask what I'm doing, and how, they more often than not, reply that they couldn't possibly give up 'this, that and the other' to which I am always seriously tempted to respond, "Well stay fat then...." (But I don't. )
I've noticed with our swift change to fall that my cravings for carbs are way up. I haven't had them in months, not since I started lchf in March, actually. But wow, I find them challenging now! In the summer I was eating some yogurt and fruit (and staying under my carb goal of 38g a day) but since my desire for those has decreased with our 30 degree temp drop, I've added a little sweet potato to my eggs in the morning. I will probably do a beef stew and add a little squash to that. I've been surprised at the cravings coming on basically over night. I feel like I am fighting them 10 times harder than ever. Hoping it's just a phase that'll pass swiftly enough. If it was just sweet potato that would be one thing, but it is an actual struggle to pull myself away from the cookie and candy aisle when I am shopping, LOL. Thankfully, my husband is my partner in this and steers me away, reminding me I won't even enjoy it and will feel crappy later. Which is true.
I would suggest (although I have absolutely no proof to substantiate this) that your seasonal appetite is kicking in. Yang foods in Summer (salads, light meals) and Yin (dense, heavy, sub-soil) in Winter.
This, I think, is your body-clock saying "I need to fatten up and set store for the winter" and it's exactly the way we used to eat, before every manner of ingredient was available all year round.
I'm sure that that is it, especially with out lengthy and quite cold winter climate. I just am at a loss for what to change to at this point because everything I've done since spring has worked out so well and everything I normally feel for in the fall has come back with a vengeance, lol. Most of the stuff we'd eat at this point is carb-heavy. I had half a sweet potato the other day that was almost 30g. That's my entire day! But trying to stick to what I've been eating the past 6 months is just resulting in me feeling hungry and dissatisfied all of a sudden which then leaves me crabby and tired. Perhaps some curry is in order.
Try rice and spaghetti the starch-resistant way.....
Heard about that a while back. Works with potatoes too.
Got leftovers? Not so bad.
I have heard about the rice, I didn't know it worked with other starches. Might have to experiment with that and see what happens. Truthfully, a little is enough, i don't need a huge plate like I used to eat. I do think curry might work well too, since I can pack it with chicken and shrimp, lol. It has that creamy comfort food feel to it. It does not help that it rained 70% of our summer days, and fall hasn't been much better. It has been raining since Friday night and it just gets so old!
I know; the summer hasn't been much to write about here, either... the leaves are turning, and slowly dropping from the trees, and it's autumn for sure, but we haven't had summer yet - ! I mean, what the actual f... is going on...?!
I have some wonderful pork in the freezer I might stew in my crockpot, to make a good heartwarming meal or two.... I have pre-roasted whole barley I can add as a bit of substance... Wonder if that's starch-resistant??
Update: Barley is one of the best starch-resistant grains around. In fact, according to this - it's better than rice....
Interesting, I do like barley! Maybe some stew is in order for the weekend. That sounds good, I have some broth yet from spring time even.
For those that enjoy following my trials and tribulations, lol. I've still been having awful carb cravings. I did do the rice trick and had a little (half cup) of day old rice with my curry. I haven't been eating junk food, just added some more typically healthy carbs in since my cravings were awful. Had half a sweet potato with my eggs, had some roasted beets and carrots from the garden.
Over 2 weeks, even though my activity level is the same (I am on an 8 week strength program that I started a month ago), my calories are the same, switching my carbs from 38g a day to about 70g a day (all in low glycemix fruits and veggies) has resulted in my gaining 4 pounds in 2 weeks. My body just does not like to deal with carbs, even after 6 months on the low carb diet. So, I'm back on and still not sure how to deal with the intense "I must eat starchy comfort foods because hiberation is coming!!" phase that has now been approaching a month. The stuff that left me completely full and satisfied for months isn't cutting it anymore and I don't know how to change it up.
In 10 days I have to travel again, which is always difficult. By myself it's easy. I am completely content living on hotel eggs and sausage breakfast and stopping at the grocery store for the rest of my stuff. But my mom and I are going to visit my college kid, which is going to result in eating out. Hopefully I can at least convince them to forego any pasta places. Just feeling frustrated. Not as much at gaining weight as in not knowing what to do. It's not as if the cravings are like the ones I used to have for a piece of cake that would go away in a matter of hours, or a couple of days of PMS. They have been persistent for weeks and I don't know when to expect them to end. If it's not going to stop until the next seasonal change, it's going to be a long 2 months.
I'm convinced there is an AWFUL lot to be said for 'listening' to your body.
If you have a carb craving, no matter how much it has been proven that we don't actually NEED carbs as a nutritive component per se, sometimes, our bodies require something that has been classified as a Carbohydrate.
I would respectfully suggest eating moderate craved carbs, but also implementing a 2-day occasional fast? And keep your sodium intake up.
@federica I believe strongly in that as well, but I don't know if I should just graciously accept the weight gain for now and know it won't last forever, or what. I'm afraid that even in adding healthy things like small amounts of root veggies, extra greens, a little fruit (berries), even though it satisfies the cravings, I don't want to gain all my weight back.
I will give the occasional fasting a shot, maybe that will help. I have been keeping my sodium up, so I think that part is ok. I know that feeling guilty about it is NOT going to help my long term success, so I really need to just arrive at a place I am ok with for the time being and be happy with it, I guess. 2 weeks isn't that long, and it isn't entirely abnormal for me to gain a little, go back and then lose. So maybe it's just timing of my cycle or something (even though it's not quite the right time for that). Thanks, lady.
Careful over-doing it with the root veg, tho'...
I gorged myself absolutely stupid yesterday, (and I DO mean, 'gorged'!) on loads of proteins, a meagre addition of carbs and a liberal dose of fats.
Dropped a pound. My skinny jeans are slightly baggy.
Go figure!
I'm still trying to get my head round the fact that there are some things I can absolutely stuff myself to the gunnels with, and it's still good for me.
WTF....?!
(It WAS all scrummy tho...!)