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Eating Friends.
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Maybe. But then it's all about mockery and not humor, on both sides!
If one understands the motivation of people like Martin Luther King and other similar people, then one does understand why some people cannot simply live their lives without telling others "you need to do it my way". The motivation is identical, just a different subject. Civil rights activists, women's rights activists, animal rights activists, all the same motivation, just a different subject.
It would seem on the one side some "animal flesh eaters " are complaining about the vegan/vegetarian preaching...
Whilst some vegans and vegetarians complain about what they see as hypocrisy on the part of 'some' animal flesh eaters...having kindness and compassion for the suffering of all sentient beings....then eating them...
We need to find a middle way...Um like minding our own business
@karasti Then how should vegans speak up? When I see a row of pigs in small cages, not even able to turn around, how should I convince people not to financially support that?
In a compassionate, caring, non judgemental way, I think works best....
"Look at dem pigs, you insensitive ~expletive deleted~! You eat them and make them suffer, you should be ashamed of yourself!!" is just going to get peoples' backs up
And please understand this: No matter how compassionate, caring and non-judgemental your message - some people will simply not follow through, whatever you do or say.
So it's best for your own sake, to keep it gentle and caring, rather than hostile and accusatory.
PLEASE NOTE: I am using 'you/your' in the generic sense, not in the specifically 'you' sense.
@maarten it is not your job to convince them of anything. Everyone makes their own choices on their own path. The only thing you can do is offer experience and information so when they are making their decisions it is from a place of having more information to do so. That doesn't mean they will make the choice they want you to make though, and they are free not to. Berating people for being uncaring is not going to get them to listen to you. Quite the opposite. And then you have to be clear if your issue is all meat eating, or mainly factory farming, which do not have to be the same thing. Many people are increasingly aware of the conditions of factory farms and do what they can to not support it. They support local farms and farmers markets in increasing numbers for that very reason. But it is because they arrived at that decision on their own by receiving information and realizing that didn't fit in with their life. Otherwise have that information and are not capable of making those changes yet, whether due to living arrangements or finances. For many people, major changes to things like diet come in steps.
I personally am a quite educated and well-read consumer. I research everything I buy, including food. But I also have to do what my body needs and it isn't always what my mind wants to do. Not everyone responds positively to vegan diets. I know all about factory farming. Someone like you preaching to me about it is only going to solidify my view that vegans assume everyone is stupid and care more about forcing their view than they care about anything else. Not only will it not turn me vegan because it isn't something I can do, but it puts you in a negative light. Share information and experience, and leave it. You cannot control the outcome once you share it. You can only offer it and let them do what they will with it. And make sure you know your audience. It shouldn't be every single random meat eater on the planet. Because knowing HOW to talk to a specific person about an issue is a huge part in getting them to listen, and generally broadcasting such a message isn't going to get anyone to listen.
@seeker242 And even in those things that are important to me, like gay rights, I do not insist others see things my way. I offer different experiences and information and let them consider it to arrive at their own conclusions. Preaching never converts anyone. Compassionate sharing with the right people can, when they are at a place in their life to do so.
@maarten. Suppose the shoe were on the other foot. How would you like it explained to you? I lack the arrogance to tell you what your job is or isn't. So one way to make your point in a better way might be "to let your words be of velvet, your arguments of steel".
I often experience a lust for animal flesh when the aroma of backyard grilling is near by. At that point compassion is far from my mind. Even though I turn down invites extended by the neighbors.
@grackle it has nothing to do with arrogance. None of us has the job of telling others what to do with their choices in life. Telling someone else that we know what is best for them is just silly. There are far too many causes and conditions in each individual life. Most of us don't even know what our own are, much less those of others to be able to tell them what to do. I am my own boss, 100%, and I am 100% accountable for the consequences of my actions. As it is for every human, including even children. No one else gets to tell me what to do, nor should they attempt to. But I am certainly open to hearing other experiences so that as I make my choices, I have as much information as possible to do so. However, that does not obligate me in any way to make the same choices as anyone else.
Yeah, I don't think 'arrogance' has a place in this thread, even if used as an example of behaviour, rather than the behaviour itself.... Maybe 'arrogance' isn't the word you were really wishing to use, @grackle.... eh? (There's a helpful hint there...
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I would say that depends entirely on how you define "preaching". I've converted a lot of people with what other people would call "preaching". To some people, "preaching" and "compassionate sharing" mean the same thing. Other people consider any kind of sharing at all, no matter how compassionate it is, to be "preaching".
For example, you could say the exact same thing to two different people and one will say "Wow, thank you, I wasn't aware of that" and the other person will say "OMG, stop preaching!"
Yes, the terms can be confused. But that is where "know your audience" comes into play. If you know the person well enough to discuss the topic with them, most of the time you know how to speak so they will listen. Preaching is when you are addressing large groups of people, or people you don't know well, and telling them "my way is the best way for everyone" allowing no room for the individual factors in their life that cause them to make different choices. We tend to believe if we just talk enough or say the right then then obviously everyone will agree with us because how could they not? But that's not true. Beating people over the head with your truth isn't going to convert them. Also, implying people don't care, are dumb etc doesn't help either. Insisting that others ware stupid for not agreeing with you is a big reason we have Trump as president right now.
We can share our way of life without being attached to it, or to the outcome of how people react to it. Give information and let people do what they are going to do. Some will still misunderstand your intent, but if you know your audience and select how you speak to them based on that, it's much less likely to happen. Generally your best audience is never going to be an internet forum filled with dozens, hundreds, thousands of people who all vary vastly from you. Which is why clarifying your stance with "this is what works best for me" is ideal. Because it leaves room for others who have different circumstances to listen to what you have to say, take what they can use, and leave the rest. Which is what we all do with every piece of information we digest. For me, I consider the stuff that is dropped in my path but not the stuff that is shoved in my face.
@federica. If telling others what there job is,outside of employment, is not an example of arrogance then I'm clueless. I stand by what I say.
Well, arrogance is defined as 'an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner'... I don't think anyone here is necessarily arrogant. Passionate might be an appropriate term. Although some with a strong and insistent opinion have been arrogant, I haven't really detected that here, and as you will understand, it's my job to do so, in an unbiased way....
So in a thread on eating animals, I shouldn't say that it's uncaring to eat farmed animals. I will leave you to it then, good luck everyone.
oh for goodness' sake, @maarten, don't be such a drama queen. Nobody is saying you're necessarily wrong. It's not what you say, it's how you say it, ok?
Laughter is the best medicine!
Laughter is the best medicine. When you are really bound up with a serious case of the giggles troubles seek other dwellings.
@maarten I never said you shouldn't say anything. I was mostly addressing Spiny's comment that anyone who doesn't stop eating meat is uncaring. Which isn't true. And the suggestion that even when someone knows better means they can make changes. Not everyone can. There is a big difference between "if you don't do what I do, you don't care and are just making excuses" and "I am concerned with the welfare of the animals in factory farms."
@maarten. Don't stay away too long. The points you raise are valid and need to be heard.
Yes, don't stay away.
Yes, the points raised are valid.
No, they don't need to be heard. Again.
We have countless threads on meat-eating, vegetarianism and the yes, no, in out, up down, good bad criticism, praise of every possible single angle.
Yet another thread that frankly, has probably run its course.
If there is more to add that is relevant, pertinent, non-repetitive or argumentative, would any members let me know.
Thanks to all, without exception, for their contribution.