Practising other religions
Lee82
Veteran
So, I went to a catholic mass on Sunday. My wife and I have decided to have our son baptised. We're trying to convince ourselves it's for the right reasons, to give a religious upbringing, to teach the values of the church and leave him free to find his own way. But ultimately it comes down to the school around the corner being our most local, also the best in the area and being roman Catholic, otherwise I don't think we would bother. I was baptised as a baby but have found my own path and do not believe in God or any other diety. I know it is for the wrong reasons but the warped education system in this country leads us down this path. I'm not looking for justification or approval, just wanted to throw that out there and see what others had to say on the idea of practising other religions whilst ultimately considering yourself to be Buddhist.
Comments
@federica will enjoy the way I started my post I'm sure haha, it seemed fitting to casually drop it in here as if it's something and nothing tittle tattle, so...
@Lee82
I'm what I call a Permanent Resident of Buddhism (Settle on one particular path, but freely travel between states/schools/sects eg, Theravada, Mahayana "Zen" "Tibetan", even at times venturing into Hinduism & Taoism) ...
You have to do what is right for your family. But I admittedly am a bit confused by the idea that you would have him baptised, attend Catholic school, eventually receive first communion and confirmation as part of that, in part due to a desire for a religious upbringing with the values of the Church, yet you think that leaves him free to find his own way?
I realize you eventually did. But for a lot of people that is very hard. Many people struggle greatly with leaving what they were raised with, especially when they are told via their education and Church values that questioning what you are taught isn't a good thing.
My son goes to a catholic school. We had no choice in our area. Well over 90% of our primary schools are catholic controlled. He is not baptised. Neither is his brother. I respect peoples beliefs and religions but I cannot support the catholic church as an organisation and all of the horrors that have been inflicted on innocent people by them ( many women and children). The way they are teaching religion to young children has become more insular too, trying to preserve their "flock" after all of the scandals which have rocked the church. My 5 year old came home saying he hated the mean guys who nailed jesus to the cross.!!! Religion only rarely comes home as homework but when it does you can see just how much they are doing at school. Every page a cross. God made everything. Dont ask questions. Its frighteningly old school. Zero mention that other religions exist. In many parts of Ireland educate together schools are springing up which teach of world religions and spirituality and you follow yoir own religion or none in your own time. Unfortunately not one where we live.
I will never baptise our boys into the organisation which is the catholic church ( note: i have no problem with christianity) because I cannot resolve or abide by the organisations level of homophobia, misogyny and history of abuse both physical and mental against innocent men, women and children.
I made my case and it was perfectly fine for my son to enroll in catholic school even though he is not baptised. Maybe this wasnt an option for yoi.
Please everybody reading realise I respect all religions in their pure form of good intentions. The catholic church, however, is a man made organisation that hasnt earned my trust or respect and I want my sons to grow up thinking for themselves, tolerant, kind, honest, respectful and caring and most of all happy. What he is learning even at a young age promotes no questioning or finding a path or self discovery. Its all , god made everything, end of story, no further questions.
P.s i am a buddhist and happy to have come to this path through my own journey of self discovery over many years. I am a buddhist who doesnt believe in a creator or a god or gods. I love how buddhism promotes self discovery, practise and is a path of having to take full responsibility for our actions and the consequences of those actions ( karma). Buddhism sits really well in my life as I am also a scientist/biologist/zoologist. Buddhism for me is so practical, useful and far more besides. Finding buddhism has been the greatest discovery of my life and I am so grateful.
When my daughter was little, her best friend was Roman Catholic and was taking the confirmation training. My daughter wanted to do it too, so, as part of the friendship, I figured I'd go to church services. I was in an 'ecumenical' phase and figured "any church, any time." I made it to three services before I got very ... uhhh... agitated: The sermons were fine as far as they went, but then I realized they were leaving out the subsequent information that I figured would benefit all Christians ... the fact that no book could tell the tale that spiritual life had to tell. I got angry. Withholding that information struck me as manipulative and false and mean.
My daughter kept going, but I could not stomach any more. Abrahamic religions by definition separate "man" and "God" by asserting they can be somehow joined. The belief system is OK for a while, but practice has a way of putting the fire under such a belief system. Belief is OK. But practice, like sneezing, is more down to earth and accurate.
Just my taste.
PS. Today, my adult daughter is, to the best of my knowledge, a healthy agnostic .... or something along those lines. Our family too, explored the improvements that Catholic schools pose when compared to public schools. I sympathize. We simply didn't have the money.
It's interesting to me how common Catholic schools are in some areas. I live in a state that has a lot of Lutherans, I guess. We don't have religious schools in or near where I live, and few of them even in the larger cities. Compared to many areas, I mean. Kids who took religious classes got out of school every Wednesday to attend their classes. Us heathens got to play the whole time. Much preferred. Here, Charter schools are the more competitive ones with better things to offer, but our state has a good public school system, comparatively. I still hate the entire notion of how our public school system works. But comparing by state, ours is one of the better, thankfully. I don't know if I could do it myself. I would homeschool them before I sent them to Catholic schools, unless for some reason it was highly important to them to do so. I just don't believe in indoctrination of children. For us, our values are so vastly different than anything religious schools can offer.
Actually, a little off topic, I asked a visiting teacher how to best help young children (my youngest was 4 at the time) learn Buddhism. He got right into my face, like 2 inches away, and said "Then you need to be the person to start the school you need." Yikes! I do not have the education or credentials for that sort of thing. But his point was well made that we have to be responsible for the types of changes we want to see and do what we can, which for me meant no indoctrination (or as little as possible) but a focus on values without associated religious labels. It hasn't always been easy though to deal with various questions without a solid family anchor of "we are this and we believe this." But I wanted my kids to have a much choice in their lives as possible.
I went to Catechism until Grade 3, about an hour after school on Wednesdays. I went to a public school, there was no Catholic school nearby. I think in Catholic schools here the religious studies are integrated into the school day.
Here, we have Catholic and public schools, both are publicly funded. Catholics got the right to have their own separate school systems when Alberta became a province. Some non-Catholics send their kids to Catholic schools. Sometimes it just a matter of logistics, like if there's a Catholic school nearby, it's just more convenient to send their kids there. Others send them to Catholic schools because they think they'll get a better education.
There has been friction caused by this dual system. The province introduced legislation a few years ago that schools must allow students to form gay-straight alliance clubs if the kids demanded it. Naturally, the Catholic School Boards haven't been that cooperative in implementing that. There's a town just north of here that is historically a French settlement area, with a large Catholic population, and they have Catholic schools, but no separate public schools, so non-Catholic parents either have to send their kids to the Catholic schools nearby, or make their own arrangements to send them farther away to a public school.
I take refuge in the Buddha.
I take refuge in the Dharma.
I take refuge in the Sangha.
http://www.viewonbuddhism.org/refuge.html
I do, I do, I do ...
... normal service is now resumed ...
I think this is how many religions maintain themselves, it's by indoctrinating the young and defenceless, not because of any real truth. I find Buddhism makes sense, and Christianity does not, many of its prophets seem to be suffering psychosis.
Science has done an admirable job explaining the real world, and deservedly has swept away all the misconceptions that came before it. People deserve to study this in school, not be forced to remember tracts of the bible or ancient witterings from holy men trying to hold on to superceded ideas about creation. Religion for me is something that should be reserved for later in life.
Here in the Netherlands the vast majority of all schools are public schools, with no religious teachings, and it gives the young people a lot of freedom to form their own opinions, and they do. The result has been a falling of the percentage of people who self-identify as Christian, about 65% of the country is now non-religious.
Interesting food for thought!
Both the local primary school and high school are religious and give preference to children of faith. These schools are at least in part funded by the church. The alternative option is not so bad with the nearest state funded primary school but the alternative state funded high school would be a poor choice. It's frustrating that we have to make such choices now over long term education, the system is messed up. The high school concerns me, it is old, underfunded, gets poor results and has a bad reputation. Whilst other state funded schools a few miles away are brand new. Things may change in the future but no sign of it at present.
I'd like to think I can give my son the balance of religious education at home and show him there are other ways, giving him the ability to choose his own path in the future. I think if he didn't go to that school he would be brought up atheist.
Ever thought of home schooling?
I came across this situation occasionally when I worked as an Education Social Worker, and I generally advised parents to compromise on the religious issue if it meant getting a better education for their child, which with your son seems to be the case.
If you feel it is important that your son is brought up knowing the values of morals and ethics, then perhaps you might want to consider this...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-peter-m-wallace/an-afternoon-with-the-dalai-lama-can-a-secular-ethic-unite-us_b_4078655.html
Personally I'd choose humanist or anthroposophical schooling for young children, and a sound scientific basis for older ones. I'd avoid any overt Christian schooling because it's a profoundly illogical system full of magical thinking and taught authorities which one is supposed to just accept.
Why send your son to a Christian school when you know that at home you're going to have to give a different narrative, countering the ideas which he is taught there?
@Lee82 your post makes it sound that you have no choice even if there are better schools nearby. Maybe it might be helpful to start a push for open-enrollment, which we have here. Kids can go to any school as long as there is space. There are kids here that go to schools 30 mile away, and they even provide transportation. Some do, some don't, in that case the parents have to drive them. So people who live in a poor district can opt to send their child to a better one that is nearby. But perhaps that isn't possible with the system you have.
One of the schools in another town here is project-based. It is ideal for kids who need to move a lot to learn. They don't spend all day in desks doing busy homework, but rather use the same information to build things, use art, make robotics, etc. They are a much smaller school (our schools here are all small, we have the biggest within 45 miles and our graduating class has 42 students, lol) but they do a much better job meeting the needs of certain students that the normal system had given up on. They are thriving now. It's been awesome to follow, because the school started because parents got it going. The community supports it and volunteers lots of time and materials to take care of the school. The kids helped build their classrooms and help maintain it. I tried to get my middle son to go there as it would be a good match for him, but they do not offer sports and he participates in 3 of them. Sorry to ramble on. Just an example of a school that meets the needs of some kids better and is willing to drive 30 miles one way to come pick kids up here.
Accepting truth on the feeble basis of faith, not questioning one's beliefs, relinquishing one's personal responsibility over to a higher power, giving in to societal's brainwashing and blackmailing...
No, thank you.
I prefer to have my familiy chafe under the black sheep label than pass on to my son principles I don't believe in just to please my community....
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Thanks for all the comments, I will get round to digesting them at some point but my mind is elsewhere with the local events that have unfolded in the past 24 hours. Peace to all.