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Or is it like mysticism where; existence = God dunnit? Or is it like where in poetry:
I was so full
I was empty
Thinking Nothing
I saw Everything
Clearly I was deluded
A Buddha in a swamp of Light
A dark lightening
Emptying nihilism
The philosophy of emptiness needs to be seen as the finger pointing to the moon. It can be over thought, under thought, misinterpreted, etc. Emptiness is an experience, a state of mind that an understanding of the philosophical ideas point us to.
personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I'm Tibetan, I'm Buddhist and I'm the Dalai Lama, but if I emphasize these differences it sets me apart and raises barriers with others. What we need to do is pay more attention to the ways we are the same as other people.
Impermanent are all compounded things.
When one perceives this with true insight,
then one becomes detached from suffering;
this is the path of purification.
THE FOUR DEMONS
“The first demon is called '“the Demon that Blocks the Senses.”' When we think of a demon, we generally think of an external spirit which attacks us, but Machig realized that the true nature of demons is the internal functioning of the ego. This particular demon manifests when we see or experience something with the sense, and the senses get blocked and we get fixated on the object. For example, when we see a beautiful woman or man, as soon as we see this person the perception is blocked by the desire to possess that person. The process of perception stops, and we try to meet that person, and so on. So this is one process that must be overcome by meditation. If we are in a state of true meditation, perception occurs without this fixation with, or attachment to, the objects perceived.
The second demon is '“the Demon which Cannot be Controlled.”' This is the thought-process which just runs on and on. The thought-process takes over, the mind wanders from one thing to another, and our awareness is completely lost in distraction.
The third demon is '“the Demon of Pleasure.'” When we experience something pleasurable, like eating something delicious, we become attached to this delicacy and we want to get more and avoid anything which stands between us and the object of pleasure. This does not mean that pleasure is in itself demonic, but rather that our attachment to it becomes a hindrance to remaining in a state of clarity. For example, a meditator might have an auspicious dream, which is a sign of progress, but then '“the Demon of Pleasure”' comes into play and he gets very attached to the dream. Or someone else might experience a period when everything goes well, he feels good physically, and so he tries to continue this good period endlessly, but it must always end in change and is therefore disappointing to us.
The fourth demon is “'the Demon of the Ego.”' The ego is that with which we condition our world. It rests on the principle of '“self'” and '“other”' which causes a blockage in awareness and a lot of suffering for oneself and others.
Fundamentally, all four demons are thought-processes which block a state of clear, unattached awareness, and they all grow out of the process of ego-fixation and the lack of prajna, with the consequent misunderstanding of emptiness. The Chöd practice seeks to do away with these demons.” – Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Think not lightly of good, saying, “It will not come to me.”
Drop by drop is the water pot filled.
Likewise, the wise one, gathering it little by little,
fills oneself with good.
Good Bhikkhus, so you say thus, and I also say thus.
When this exists, that comes to be.
With the arising of this, that arises.
That is:
With ignorance as condition, formations come to be,
With formations as condition, consciousness,
With consciousness as condition, mentality materiality,
With mentality materiality as condition, the six fold base,
With the six fold base as condition, contact,
With contact as condition, feeling,
With feeling as condition, craving,
With craving as condition, clinging,
With clinging as condition, being,
With being as condition, birth,
With birth as condition, ageing and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair come to be.
Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering.
Good Bhikkhus, so you say this, and I also say thus.
When this does not exist, that does not come to be.
With the cessation of this, that ceases.
That is:
With the cessation of ignorance, comes cessation of formation,
With the cessation of formations, comes cessation of consciousness,
With the cessation of consciousness, cessation of mentality materiality,
With the cessation of mentality materiality, cessation of the six fold base,
With the cessation of the six fold base, cessation of contact,
With the cessation of contact, cessation of feeling,
With the cessation of feeling, cessation of craving,
With the cessation of craving, cessation of clinging,
With the cessation of clinging, cessation of being,
With the cessation of being, cessation of birth,
With the cessation of birth, ageing and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair cease.
Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.
When we meditate, we relate to that unsettling, ineffable commodity: the present.
We train in letting go of thoughts and feelings as they arise, and settle back into the present: that gap between two concepts - past and future - that don't actually exist.
Excerpt from "Connection and Alienation" by Ajahn Viradhammo:
"So how do we transit from alienation to connection?
We do this by being awake, present, and mindful. Let's say I come to the morning chanting and I'm feeling grumpy and uninterested. Because I'm feeling this way, I don't like the sound of the chanting, which strikes me as too slow. I'm now critical of the monks and novices and so on.
If I'm not aware that this is simply a passing mood of the mind I'm identified with and not any ultimate reality, I fall victim to the mood and suffer. This is alienation. If, on the other hand, I think that I shouldn't be this way and start to feel guilty, I also suffer. This too is alienation. But if I simply allow myself the time to be aware that this is just a mood and it will change, I'm once again connected to life. Consequently, the first step on the path from alienation to connection is becoming aware of how a mood begins, is maintained, and ceases according to causes and conditions. Awareness is thus the initial step on the path to connection."
"The foolish person who conceives of their foolishness is also, on that very account, wise.
It's the foolish person who makes themselves out to be wise, who really has to be called a fool."
Perceiving permanence in the impermanent, pleasure in the stressful, self in what’s not self, attractiveness in the unattractive, beings, destroyed by wrong view, go mad, out of their minds.
Bound to Mara’s yoke, from the yoke they find no rest.
Beings go on to the wandering on, leading to birth and death.
But when Awakened Ones arise in the world, bringing light to the world, they proclaim the Dhamma leading to the stilling of stress.
When those with discernment listen, they regain their senses, seeing the impermanent as impermanent, the stressful as stressful, what’s not self as not self, the unattractive as unattractive.
Undertaking right view, they overcome all stress and suffering.
Perceiving permanence in the impermanent, pleasure in the stressful, self in what’s not self, attractiveness in the unattractive, beings, destroyed by wrong view, go mad, out of their minds.
LOL
advanced teaching, then I read the rest, amateur hour ...
Perceiving permanence in the impermanent,
Indeed, accepting change or dukkha as a permanent and inevitable consequence of being
pleasure in the stressful,
that is difficult, we are not talking sadomasochistic bodhisattvas but genuine acceptance
self in what’s not self,
True Self is not-self
attractiveness in the unattractive
The outer form is not the inner nature, look within and beyond the superficial
beings, destroyed by wrong view, go mad, out of their minds.
All view or static perception is mad/wrong. Out of your mind but not crazy?
@Bunks said:
Hi Adam, I practised Tibetan Buddhism (Gelug tradition) for a number of years before settling on Theravadan.
I still find inspiration in that practice and refer back to the Lamrim on occasion.
What about yourself?
Hi! I have mostly practised Theravada. I love teachers like Jack Kornfield and Sharon Salzberg. I went on a short retreat at Gaia House recently, which is an Insight Meditation centre here in the UK. The teachers on my retreat came from the Thai Forest tradition, and their teachings really resonated with me. Since then I’ve been reading in that tradition almost exclusively.
I’ll always have time for Thich Nhat Hanh, though. I find his brand of Zen much closer to Theravada than usual. And I love the poetry of the Japanese Buddhists—they’re on my bookshelf too. So all in all, a bit of a mishmash
Thanks for asking; it’s useful to put into words actually.
@Bunks said:
Hi Adam, I practised Tibetan Buddhism (Gelug tradition) for a number of years before settling on Theravadan.
I still find inspiration in that practice and refer back to the Lamrim on occasion.
What about yourself?
Hi! I have mostly practised Theravada. I love teachers like Jack Kornfield and Sharon Salzberg. I went on a short retreat at Gaia House recently, which is an Insight Meditation centre here in the UK. The teachers on my retreat came from the Thai Forest tradition, and their teachings really resonated with me. Since then I’ve been reading in that tradition almost exclusively.
I’ll always have time for Thich Nhat Hanh, though. I find his brand of Zen much closer to Theravada than usual. And I love the poetry of the Japanese Buddhists—they’re on my bookshelf too. So all in all, a bit of a mishmash
Thanks for asking; it’s useful to put into words actually.
My pleasure Adam. It’s the Thai Forest tradition for me too. I find Ajahn Chah, Ajahn Brahm, Ajahn Martin etc very inspirational 🙏🙏🙏
Two important things about true giving:
1. It requires some sacrifice on the part of the giver. To give away something that one doesn’t need isn’t Dana.
2. The act must not be condescending but must show respect to the one who is receiving the gift. In fact, one is grateful to the recipient who makes the act of giving possible.
@Bunks it makes me wonder, how many (or how few) times in my life have I performed “true giving”? Probably not so many. Maybe we need another category like “pretty good giving”, which would be giving what one would rather keep. It may not be needed, strictly speaking, but it would have been nice to keep it.
Remember giving isn’t just about handing over material things e.g. food money etc.
Recently my kids school had a bush dance at a hall about a 25 minute drive from my house in the middle of nowhere.
I was free that night (kids were with their mum) so I offered to work on the door.
Throughout that day I kept thinking, “Why am I doing this? My own kids aren’t even going? It’s cold! I’d much rather sit at home alone in front of the heater and watch a game of football.”
But off I headed and, lo and behold, I had a nice night.
"Foolish people think that if they help others first, their own benefit will be lost, but this is not so. Beneficial action is an act of oneness, benefiting self and others together."
Zen Master Dogen, Bodaisatta-Shishobo
2
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
Studying texts and stiff meditation can make you lose your Original Mind.
A solitary tune by a fisherman, though, can be an invaluable treasure.
Dusk rain on the river, the moon peeking in and out of the clouds;
Elegant beyond words, he chants his songs night after night.
— Ikkyū, Zen Buddhist Monk
2
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
The snow falls, each flake in its appropriate place.
— Zen saying
The Novice: "I have seen and heard, studied and known, within these five aggregates of binding there is no one to be found and nothing to own."
The Master smiled. The Master nodded. The Master struck the Novice on the face.
Struck to the ground, the Novice righted himself, dusted off his robe. He resumed the full-lotus.
"Master, that hurt. Why would you strike me?"
The Master, grinning, said: "Who? Me? I didn't hit anybody."
1
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
“This is the real secret of life -- to be completely engaged with what you are doing in the here and now. And instead of calling it work, realize it is play.”
Alan Watts
3
JeroenLuminous beings are we, not this crude matterNetherlandsVeteran
"If you miss the present moment, you miss your appointment with life. That is very serious!"
Comments
Yes you can.
The philosophy of emptiness needs to be seen as the finger pointing to the moon. It can be over thought, under thought, misinterpreted, etc. Emptiness is an experience, a state of mind that an understanding of the philosophical ideas point us to.
Not Buddhist origin but it will do:
T.S. Eliot
If it isn’t good, let it die. If it doesn’t die, make it good.
https://zenquotes.org/ajahn-chah-quotes/
Is this quote about Buddhism or lobsters?
Ooooh! Koans and conundrums, decisions and dilemmas!
Bend your faith to fit the facts.
Don't bend the facts to fit your faith.
Train yourself in doing good
that lasts and brings happiness.
Cultivate generosity, the life of peace,
and a mind of boundless love.
Itivuttaka 1.22
Impermanent are all compounded things.
When one perceives this with true insight,
then one becomes detached from suffering;
this is the path of purification.
Dhammapada 20.277
Better than a thousand useless words
is one useful word,
hearing which one attains peace.
Dhammapada 8.100
ANTARATMA
^^ One word. Thanks @Bunks 💗
THE FOUR DEMONS
“The first demon is called '“the Demon that Blocks the Senses.”' When we think of a demon, we generally think of an external spirit which attacks us, but Machig realized that the true nature of demons is the internal functioning of the ego. This particular demon manifests when we see or experience something with the sense, and the senses get blocked and we get fixated on the object. For example, when we see a beautiful woman or man, as soon as we see this person the perception is blocked by the desire to possess that person. The process of perception stops, and we try to meet that person, and so on. So this is one process that must be overcome by meditation. If we are in a state of true meditation, perception occurs without this fixation with, or attachment to, the objects perceived.
The second demon is '“the Demon which Cannot be Controlled.”' This is the thought-process which just runs on and on. The thought-process takes over, the mind wanders from one thing to another, and our awareness is completely lost in distraction.
The third demon is '“the Demon of Pleasure.'” When we experience something pleasurable, like eating something delicious, we become attached to this delicacy and we want to get more and avoid anything which stands between us and the object of pleasure. This does not mean that pleasure is in itself demonic, but rather that our attachment to it becomes a hindrance to remaining in a state of clarity. For example, a meditator might have an auspicious dream, which is a sign of progress, but then '“the Demon of Pleasure”' comes into play and he gets very attached to the dream. Or someone else might experience a period when everything goes well, he feels good physically, and so he tries to continue this good period endlessly, but it must always end in change and is therefore disappointing to us.
The fourth demon is “'the Demon of the Ego.”' The ego is that with which we condition our world. It rests on the principle of '“self'” and '“other”' which causes a blockage in awareness and a lot of suffering for oneself and others.
Fundamentally, all four demons are thought-processes which block a state of clear, unattached awareness, and they all grow out of the process of ego-fixation and the lack of prajna, with the consequent misunderstanding of emptiness. The Chöd practice seeks to do away with these demons.” – Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Think not lightly of good, saying, “It will not come to me.”
Drop by drop is the water pot filled.
Likewise, the wise one, gathering it little by little,
fills oneself with good.
Dhammapada 9.122
Good Bhikkhus, so you say thus, and I also say thus.
When this exists, that comes to be.
With the arising of this, that arises.
That is:
With ignorance as condition, formations come to be,
With formations as condition, consciousness,
With consciousness as condition, mentality materiality,
With mentality materiality as condition, the six fold base,
With the six fold base as condition, contact,
With contact as condition, feeling,
With feeling as condition, craving,
With craving as condition, clinging,
With clinging as condition, being,
With being as condition, birth,
With birth as condition, ageing and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair come to be.
Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering.
Good Bhikkhus, so you say this, and I also say thus.
When this does not exist, that does not come to be.
With the cessation of this, that ceases.
That is:
With the cessation of ignorance, comes cessation of formation,
With the cessation of formations, comes cessation of consciousness,
With the cessation of consciousness, cessation of mentality materiality,
With the cessation of mentality materiality, cessation of the six fold base,
With the cessation of the six fold base, cessation of contact,
With the cessation of contact, cessation of feeling,
With the cessation of feeling, cessation of craving,
With the cessation of craving, cessation of clinging,
With the cessation of clinging, cessation of being,
With the cessation of being, cessation of birth,
With the cessation of birth, ageing and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair cease.
Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.
Paticca-samuppada-vibhanga Sutta
Practice has no limits.
Whether standing, walking, sitting, or lying down, you can always practice.
While sweeping the monastery grounds or glimpsing a beam of sunlight, you can awaken to Dhamma.
AJAHN CHAH
When we meditate, we relate to that unsettling, ineffable commodity: the present.
We train in letting go of thoughts and feelings as they arise, and settle back into the present: that gap between two concepts - past and future - that don't actually exist.
Consort only with the good,
Come together with the good.
To learn the teaching of the good
gives wisdom like nothing else can.
Samyutta Nikaya 1.31
Excerpt from "Connection and Alienation" by Ajahn Viradhammo:
"So how do we transit from alienation to connection?
We do this by being awake, present, and mindful. Let's say I come to the morning chanting and I'm feeling grumpy and uninterested. Because I'm feeling this way, I don't like the sound of the chanting, which strikes me as too slow. I'm now critical of the monks and novices and so on.
If I'm not aware that this is simply a passing mood of the mind I'm identified with and not any ultimate reality, I fall victim to the mood and suffer. This is alienation. If, on the other hand, I think that I shouldn't be this way and start to feel guilty, I also suffer. This too is alienation. But if I simply allow myself the time to be aware that this is just a mood and it will change, I'm once again connected to life. Consequently, the first step on the path from alienation to connection is becoming aware of how a mood begins, is maintained, and ceases according to causes and conditions. Awareness is thus the initial step on the path to connection."
@Bunks, wow! That deserves more than a simple ‘Insightful’.
BuddhaBunks - has a nice ring to it
"The foolish person who conceives of their foolishness is also, on that very account, wise.
It's the foolish person who makes themselves out to be wise, who really has to be called a fool."
Dhammapada 63
“If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family”
Author unknown
One by one, little by little, moment by moment,
a wise one should remove one’s own impurities,
as a smith removes dross from silver
Dhammapada 18.239
Ram Dass says that but I don't know if someone else says it too
Perceiving permanence in the impermanent, pleasure in the stressful, self in what’s not self, attractiveness in the unattractive, beings, destroyed by wrong view, go mad, out of their minds.
Bound to Mara’s yoke, from the yoke they find no rest.
Beings go on to the wandering on, leading to birth and death.
But when Awakened Ones arise in the world, bringing light to the world, they proclaim the Dhamma leading to the stilling of stress.
When those with discernment listen, they regain their senses, seeing the impermanent as impermanent, the stressful as stressful, what’s not self as not self, the unattractive as unattractive.
Undertaking right view, they overcome all stress and suffering.
AN 4.49 - Vipallasa Sutta: Perversions
I’m always pleased to see a new post on this thread
I’m curious @Bunks — all of your quotations so far have been from the Pali Canon or Theravada tradition. Do you take inspiration from anywhere else?
Hi Adam, I practised Tibetan Buddhism (Gelug tradition) for a number of years before settling on Theravadan.
I still find inspiration in that practice and refer back to the Lamrim on occasion.
What about yourself?
LOL
advanced teaching, then I read the rest, amateur hour ...
Indeed, accepting change or dukkha as a permanent and inevitable consequence of being
that is difficult, we are not talking sadomasochistic bodhisattvas but genuine acceptance
True Self is not-self
The outer form is not the inner nature, look within and beyond the superficial
All view or static perception is mad/wrong. Out of your mind but not crazy?
and now back to mountains that are mountains ... or perhaps not ...
https://tricycle.org/magazine/first-there-mountain-then-there-no-mountain/
Hi! I have mostly practised Theravada. I love teachers like Jack Kornfield and Sharon Salzberg. I went on a short retreat at Gaia House recently, which is an Insight Meditation centre here in the UK. The teachers on my retreat came from the Thai Forest tradition, and their teachings really resonated with me. Since then I’ve been reading in that tradition almost exclusively.
I’ll always have time for Thich Nhat Hanh, though. I find his brand of Zen much closer to Theravada than usual. And I love the poetry of the Japanese Buddhists—they’re on my bookshelf too. So all in all, a bit of a mishmash
Thanks for asking; it’s useful to put into words actually.
My pleasure Adam. It’s the Thai Forest tradition for me too. I find Ajahn Chah, Ajahn Brahm, Ajahn Martin etc very inspirational 🙏🙏🙏
When one sets foot on the Eight Fold Path, one must Mind one's step...every step of the Way
~Justathought~
Is the body sitting in the mind or is the mind sitting in the body?
Zen Master Dogen
Two important things about true giving:
1. It requires some sacrifice on the part of the giver. To give away something that one doesn’t need isn’t Dana.
2. The act must not be condescending but must show respect to the one who is receiving the gift. In fact, one is grateful to the recipient who makes the act of giving possible.
Taitetsu Unno
@Bunks it makes me wonder, how many (or how few) times in my life have I performed “true giving”? Probably not so many. Maybe we need another category like “pretty good giving”, which would be giving what one would rather keep. It may not be needed, strictly speaking, but it would have been nice to keep it.
This is probably what most of my giving is like.
Yes me too @adamcrossley.
Remember giving isn’t just about handing over material things e.g. food money etc.
Recently my kids school had a bush dance at a hall about a 25 minute drive from my house in the middle of nowhere.
I was free that night (kids were with their mum) so I offered to work on the door.
Throughout that day I kept thinking, “Why am I doing this? My own kids aren’t even going? It’s cold! I’d much rather sit at home alone in front of the heater and watch a game of football.”
But off I headed and, lo and behold, I had a nice night.
So I guess that ticks the no. 1 box.
No. 2 is a whole different story.....
As we all know, or may suspect ... receiving is a form of giving.
... so here come the sun ...
Of all the fragrances — sandal, tagara, blue lotus and jasmine — the fragrance of virtue is the sweetest.
Dhammapada 4.55
"Foolish people think that if they help others first, their own benefit will be lost, but this is not so. Beneficial action is an act of oneness, benefiting self and others together."
Zen Master Dogen, Bodaisatta-Shishobo
Studying texts and stiff meditation can make you lose your Original Mind.
A solitary tune by a fisherman, though, can be an invaluable treasure.
Dusk rain on the river, the moon peeking in and out of the clouds;
Elegant beyond words, he chants his songs night after night.
— Ikkyū, Zen Buddhist Monk
The snow falls, each flake in its appropriate place.
— Zen saying
-Venerable Vimalakīrti
(Also a good one:)
-Ven Vimalakīrti in responce to Venerable Śāriputra's knock upon his door.
I wonder what a Buddhist knock knock joke would be like:
Knock knock
No one's home.
End of joke.
Better it is to live one day
seeing the rise and fall of things
than to live a hundred years
without ever seeing the rise and fall of things
Dhammapada 8.113
No one's home end of joke who? hehe
No one's home, he said,
From inside the great mansion.
No one home indeed.
(Another good one, source apocryphal)
The Novice: "I have seen and heard, studied and known, within these five aggregates of binding there is no one to be found and nothing to own."
The Master smiled. The Master nodded. The Master struck the Novice on the face.
Struck to the ground, the Novice righted himself, dusted off his robe. He resumed the full-lotus.
"Master, that hurt. Why would you strike me?"
The Master, grinning, said: "Who? Me? I didn't hit anybody."
“This is the real secret of life -- to be completely engaged with what you are doing in the here and now. And instead of calling it work, realize it is play.”
"If you miss the present moment, you miss your appointment with life. That is very serious!"