Confusing message at a Dharma Talk
ScottPen
Maryland Veteran
I've been to 2 dharma talk meetups run by the Insight Meditation Community of Washington (IMCW).
The format of last nights session was an hour of mostly guided meditation followed by small group reflections on the meditation and a short "dharma talk."
After the initial meditation the teacher (she's a therapist by profession) invited everyone to share something that they found pleasant during the meditation. She then invited the group to join her outside and I gathered that they did some sensory focusing out there. I chose to stay inside and take advantage of the quiet for my own practice. When they came back in and reflected on their experience, the teacher said that she found the noise of the traffic to be unpleasant but that she was able to focus on the sound of a pleasant birdsong- and this allowed her to move the unpleasant sensation to the background. She then told the group that when they are experiencing stress, finding something, anything, pleasant to notice and observe can reduce their stress
So, I understand that this is a basic coping mechanism for anxiety, and anxiety hinders equanimity. Also, learning to combat automatic negative thoughts by balancing negative sensory input with positive seems like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy which I know works for some people. However, using a pleasant stimulus to cover up an unpleasant one seems to me like perpetuating delusion and aversion. Here's what I believe jives more with what I've learned regarding sensory input:
Sensory input, pleasant or unpleasant - take note - identify - maybe observe why you do or don't like it - note its impermanence - let it go
It seems to me that if a person attempts to cover up bad feelings with good ones, they're perpetuating wrong view by seeing the world not as it truly is, and it borders on feeding an attachment to pleasure and an aversion to displeasure.
Can anyone provide their thoughts on this?
Comments
I tend to agree with you.
It's best to not be selective or try to judge a situation, but to settle into it, and just notice the stimuli, and accept that they are there.
My thought would be to notice the traffic noise, and to reflect that this noise indicates the movement of beings going about their daily business... "May all beings be happy; may all beings be well; may all beings stay safe from harm." Then just go back to noticing and letting go...
By trying to separate what we perceive as 'good' within sitting through the 'bad' just makes us more attached to what we would like to be, rather than what 'is'.
Yup. With you on this one.
(In your shoes, being quite extrovert and mouthy with it, I would have put forward this view to those present....but that's just how I roll....)
ETA: (I'm doing quite a bit of 'ETA'-ing at the moment!) I would say she was handling the experience of Meditating in a Therapeutic way, and passing on valuable information for those affected easily by stress or anxiety. So I would say she was calling on her therapeutic knowledge to give people the tools needed to deal with specific Mind-sets. But generally speaking, with regard to Meditation, I don't think this would be a constructive exercise, if the emotions of stress and/or anxiety are not an issue....
I hear ya. I thought that I might bring this up at the session, but I'm trying to be very careful about right speech. It didn't seem like the right time since I hadn't had the opportunity yet to bounce this stuff off of other practitioners. Plus, my tendency to mouthiness and extroversion is usually fueled by a desire to look smart. I'm trying to stop myself from acting on that these days. It ain't easy... I've been the that way for 40 years.
Agreed @scottpen about your general conclusion and I’d add that by moving which part of the auditory input to listen to, they are being selective and so are thoughtfully working on their mind’s environment, which is not what I understand meditation is about.
Attachment to pleasure and aversion from displeasure are very natural impulses in a human being and they take many forms. For example today I have been experiencing slight pains around my liver, it was unpleasant and I might have taken a paracetamol for it (if I’d had any). But in meditation such things are just another hindrance.
It may be you have encountered a more general problem with secular Buddhist streams, that of the therapist-teacher. Often the goals of a therapist are not quite the same as the goals of a teacher.
Hi @ScottPen, I have some responses to your posts.
First, what i will say follows the teachings and practices of Zen and Tibetan Buddhism.
The Dharma i know is and isn't about behavioral adjustment. At first, we do make changes in how we act, sort of fake it until we make it. But a major purpose of Buddhism is to work toward and find a Mind that naturally creates a Buddhist personality for us. For example, if we see we have no self, then our activities will become less self centered etc.
I would be very careful about rigidly applying what you think of as right speech or right anything at this point. The world is not running on Buddhist ethics and you may get a severe backlash,if you start smearing everyday experience with your Buddhist ideas. I am telling you this from personal experience. Beginners in any endeavor tend to proselytize. Be smart, don't create a lot of pain for yourself. Dharma ethics will seep into your system over time and then your behavior will teach a lot more than anything you say.
If you practice appropriate meditation you will find that your desire to state your opinion or be smart begins with an impulse, an energy. Learn to notice the impulses in meditation so you can observe them in post meditation. The idea is not to buy into or shun the impulse just let it come and go. It will probably arise again , so do the same thing again. Maybe you will say something or maybe not, but you will not be acting on impulse and that's important. We have to learn to notice mind and approach all of its occurrences in a neutral fashion and not allow mind to take charge of us.
From what i've read, your experiences at IMCW are not at all like the Buddhism i have been taught, learned and practiced through the years.
Thanks @Kerome and @Tsultrim for your thoughts. I emailed the teacher about my confusion and she offered the following explanation:
"Thanks for your question. It’s a good one and a common one on Right Mindfulness. Whenever there is a suggestion of noticing the pleasant there are those who wonder if this is somehow denying the unpleasant. The teaching I was offering is—“where do we place our attention after we notice, experience and let go of the unpleasant”? This likely would have been clearer to you if you had joined us outside for that portion of my teaching.
It is very important to name the unpleasant as a first step as I did last night. There is no “covering up” of anything in what I was suggesting. It is not necessary to reject, deny, or push away any unpleasant experience to let it be (or as you say “let it go”) and then to move your attention—as you do in every meditation on the breath, moving from what the mind has wandered to back to the breath. In that process there is no need to deny that what the mind has wandered to is also happening. We simply notice it, let it be and come back to the breath. In this case it’s simply that in the mix of the unpleasant experiences of every day life there may also be pleasant elements that can be found, noticed and brought to the forefront, just as the breath is brought to the forefront in our focused attention practice, and for similar reasons—it can help bring equanimity to the mind as well as a clearer understanding of present moment experience.
We did work with the full process of first working with then unpleasant at least once during the opening practice portion of the class. This was when I first asked participants to notice the unpleasant in the body. We noticed the unpleasant, named it, experienced it, and then let it be. We then came back to the whole body and moved attention to an aspect that was in relative ease or comfort (ie. The pleasant). Then we noticed, named and took in the pleasant, the nourishing. There was no need to reject any aspect of the previously noticed unpleasant experience to do this, nor was the pleasant experience in the body used to mask or cover up the unpleasant.
I hope this helps to clarify that Right Mindfulness doesn’t involve any aspect of denial or covering up but it does take Right Effort. It takes effort to notice that pleasant elements are part of the mix, just as it takes effort to come back to the breath when our mind wanders away. As all of the limbs of the Eight Fold path are intersectional with each other, Right Mindfulness also both generates and is dependent on our Compassion. It is an act of self-compassion to let the unpleasant be and consciously notice the pleasant, especially in moments in which we are already suffering."
So in the context of the part of the class that I didn't participate in, it makes more sense. But I dunno... I'm looking for Dharma, not just meditation instruction.
@ScottPen. Stay away from Bandaid Buddhism, little psychological ploys that barely cover a wound in mind that includes believing in a self, seeing the world as real and that you are separate from it. You need a dressing for the wound that lasts and heals it.
Things like thinking good thoughts, no matter how couched in pseudo Buddhism they may be, will deviate you from the only approach that can heal your wound.
To give you an example, most of the thoughts we think arise on their own, we don't make them. Anything can come up good or bad. By taking a stance on them, deciding they are bad, we are strengthening their hold on us by us paying undue attention to them.
By then attempting to cover them with a good thought we are further defining them as bad and then focusing on another thought we decide is good. All the time we are increasing thoughts' power over us by giving it more attention, when the idea is not to get caught in them, just let them come and go.
Why do we let them come and go? Because the longer we dwell on them the less time we have to look at the nature of mind, ( they are also mind, but that comes later) which is what Buddhism is about, looking at and finally discovering the true nature of Mind.
Moderator Note:
It's very difficult when living in a Western society as we do, @Tsultrim, to avoid what you dismissively call 'bandaid Buddhism'. Sometimes, it's all we can get, to begin with. Don't knock it; it has its uses, even if it is to encourage deeper understanding and further research.
I mean, how would we distinguish between such teachings and those you consider preferable, without first being exposed to them?
Simply because you have managed to rise far above such matters, have a little kindness and consideration for those who find comfort in the simple things.
Providing dharma would be so much easier if people listened rather than questioned. Better still if they were just allowed to find their preferred teachings ... wait a minute ... Dharma is a question ...
You asked and ... what is confusing again? Ah yes pseudo-dhrama rather than the real deal dharma ...
If you ever find The Real Buddha Dharma let us know. Some of us, especially me, need all the dharma and therapy going ...
https://tricycle.org/magazine/buddhism-and-psychotherapy/
Thought: Covering up stuff and redirecting your attention aren't the same thing.
So the above is not about covering up bad feelings, it's about not feeding them so they grow in strength. The Buddha called it "appropriate attention" and "inappropriate attention"
This is dharma! The dharma of appropriate attention. It's applicable continuously, not just during meditation.
The Dhammapada touches on this as well.
So say someone does something bad to you. It's not skillful to dwell on thoughts of that. It's skillful to direct your attention off of that and onto something else. If you don't, you're just adding fuel to a fire. Adding fuel to a fire when all the fire does is burn you, not exactly a wise move!
Thanissaro Bhikkhu comments
This is applicable to way more than just meditation.
I'd just add that pleasure, joy, gladness, etc. isn't verboten in Buddhism. And sometimes, directing the mind towards something pleasant or inspiring can be beneficial to one's meditation, as suttas like SN 47.10 illustrate:
One's thoughts can often get in the way of the truth...
Look upon them as visitors of the mind and don't allow the mind to become charmed by them.
In other words....
...Easier said than done ...but with practice it's doable
At a certain point, Mind is all the pleasure, joy, gladness etc. we need. Directing it elsewhere is to lose the pleasure, joy, gladness etc it provides.
Looking for pleasure, joy, gladness etc outside of Mind is like, "Riding a Water Buffalo in search of a Water Buffalo"' as the old Zen saying goes. Why search elsewhere for what we already have?
Focus, discipline and appropriate attentive awareness. Sounds good to me.
As mentioned, discernment and attending choice mind streams is initially important before one becomes drowned in the mire of self deception, unskilful behavour, crazed dharma, Lamé lamaism, Hinayana uber Alles and unsuitable suitors ...
tsk, tsk ... this dharma mind-field sure is a mine-feeled ...
Think of our whole being as knot-dharma, when untied from the Tantra thread, The Zenith Kohan brothers and other Buddhist Matrixes ... We will eventually be free to enter the Not-Dharma, Unmanifest, Jesus Bodhi realms, Hell realms and who knows where ... and float above/through it all without being slightly touched or overly douched in the slightest ...
Neti-neti no catchee fishee
https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/neti-neti
Wot a plan!
Excerpt from the Song of Lodro Thaye (Rain of Wisdom Text)
This is the sovereign of all reality.
The nature of mahamudra is unity,
The realm of dharmas free from accepting or rejecting.
Possessing the beauty of unconditioned bliss,
It is the great and vast wealth of wisdom.
It is the natural form of kindness transcending thought.
Through prajna, it does not dwell in samsara.
Through karuna, it does not dwell in nirvana.
Through effortlessness, Buddha activity is spontaneously
accomplished.
The luminosity of ground and path, mother and son,
dissolve together.
The ground and fruition embrace one another.
Buddha is discovered in one's mind.
The wish-fulfilling treasure overflows within.
E ma! How wonderful and marvelous!
@seeker242 and @Jason, I appreciate the Sutta references so much. I'm going to spend some time on Access to Insight this weekend.
@Tsultrim, as always I appreciate your perspective and insight. In an effort to understand the poem I googled "mahamudra." If nothing else, I learned that I have a lot to learn, which is a valuable lesson. I'm going to take a look at the Rain of Wisdom book.
@lobster, your lighthearted posts always make me smile, but I gotta admit that I usually only understand a small portion of it
That may be true. But until then, the mind in meditation in my experience is often full of sleepiness, wondering about what to make for dinner, reminding myself the rent it due, thoughts of how uncomfortable I am, boredom, being annoyed at certain sounds, etc. And I've found that it occasionally helps to direct it towards something pleasant or inspiring that can help to focus it and settle it down into the present moment, temporarily counteracting the five hindrances.
I agree with you.
Many Westerners seek out meditation as a way to relieve stress and/or become "happier". And this seems to be what the instructor you referenced is teaching.
But this is not Buddhism.
As a matter of fact, at our centre's first annual outdoor meditation retreat, we afterwards discussed focusing on sensory input, and our Lama told us that was not the proper way to meditate.
Even in Mindfulness meditation (Theravadan approach to meditation) you are supposed to be focusing on what goes on inside of you rather than what is external.
As for Cognitive Behavioral psychology, the place where I see parallels to Buddhism are in the ritual actions (especially pervasive in Vajrayana/Tibetan Buddhism). Setting new brain pathways, deliberately creating new cognitive responses. Don't see it so much in Zen or Theravadan Buddhism. (the focus of my psych degree was on learning/behavior).
Consider, though, towards the final exhaustion of his body, the Buddha found his back pain unpleasant much like your teacher found the traffic noise unpleasant. Some say that towards the end of his life, the Buddha near-constantly abided in dhyāna heavens to avoid this extreme pain.
The story of the Buddha's back pain is one of my favourites.
Why? Where else do we see the Buddha depicted as so human? So normal?
I don't know if the eight dhyāna heavens exist, but it strikes me as an odd detail to include.
If the compilers of various recensions of testaments to the Buddha's dispensation had truly desired that the Buddha seem the perfected man in the sense of: "not like you", distant, not someone you are ever going to be like - then I feel that they would have gotten rid of this story.
A Buddha with back pain is an inconvenient truth.
I'm not sure what the policy for citations here is.
My apologies for this metadiscussion.
The above discourse is from the Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra.
In the Pali Canon, this story can be found at DN 16. The Pali version isn't explicit about why the Buddha entered into these meditative states culminating in the attainment of the cessation of perception and feeling, but it's reasonable to assume it was because of the deadly sharp pains he was experiencing.
When 'our' mind [hollow laughter] belongs to:
... what is a buddha gal to do?
Everything she can would be a good plan ...
Long the 3.5 Jewels. Buddha for Ever. Death to the fanatics ... wait some mistakes seem to have crept in ...
I hope you understand that the thoughts you are having , no matter what their content, can be helpful to your progress on the path. There is a Zen saying that we don't throw our manure away, but use it to fertilize the fields. Thoughts can be used similarly to fertilize Mind and grow enlightenment.
At a basic level, simply acknowledging thoughts without reacting to them - by labeling them as pleasant or unpleasant and then redirecting mind to what you now label as pleasant or inspiring- over time, will be a more reliable and lasting way to settle mind. Our thoughts are not the problem , it's our attachment to them that causes our discomfort. Attaching to and labeling thoughts as this and that is attachment and counterproductive.
As one progresses, it is very helpful to begin to observe thoughts for what they are rather than what they say. At some point we may discover that they are empty and then we have taken a big step, because emptiness along with awareness is the true nature of mind and reality. Observing thoughts, having seen them as empty, then becomes a way to experience realization (without an experiencer.)
Of course i understand all too well, the torture that sitting meditation can be. I have done a lot of it. I can also understand why someone may seek relief using the approach you suggested. I don't recommend it, however, and the teachers i have had and read in Zen and Tibetan Buddhism never recommended it either. They have suggested relaxing more if there is a lot of thought content or bracing oneself up mentally if sleepy, but never leaving meditation to apply mind to pleasant and inspiring thoughts.
I recall reading somewhere that the Buddha said to take what works and leave what doesn't....
Of course, just being a simple follower of the Dharma I could be wrong.
Yes, I do understand that. But I also understand how they can be unhelpful when we're unable to simply note them without them influencing our stream of consciousness and causing anxiety, fear, frustration, lust, sleepiness, or some other obstructive state of mind, making meditative absorption nigh impossible, which is why the Buddha gives various methods of subduing the hindrances and disruptive/unskillful thoughts in order to allow our minds to settle into pleasurable states that, in turn, lead to jhana and then clear seeing. In AN 9.64, for example, the Buddha recommends the four frames of reference. In SN 47.10, he recommends directing the mind towards an inspiring object. And in MN 20, he gives advice on how to settle the mind when trying to develop a state of concentration by 1) directing it away from unskillful thoughts "imbued with desire, aversion or delusion" and towards another meditation object, 2) by reflecting on the drawbacks of the unskillful thoughts, 3) by ignoring the unskillful thoughts, 4) by relaxing the mind/thinking process, or, if all else fails, 5) by "beating down, constraining, and crushing his mind with his awareness."
Fair enough. But inclining the mind to inspiring themes, such as the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha, devas, one's own generosity, etc., is a common technique found in the Pali Canon and Theravada as a whole, and I've found it helpful on occasion. There are many different tools in the Buddha's toolbox that one can play around with and utilize when they're having difficulties in their meditation.
@Kundo I'm sure you have lived long enough and being in the Dharma have seen many things you once thought worked that later didn't, especially if they were ego oriented.
Yes, but without the experience of learning, I wouldn't have realised it. We all have to take the journey on the path ourselves.
@> @Jason said:
There is no such thing as unhelpful thoughts. I thought i made that clear in my last post. All the things you mention: fear, frustration, lust etc are the very energies you must learn to work with in meditation if you wish to progress along the path. That's why you meditate to be able to deal with what the world presents. You can't hide from the world's energies by plastering them over with pleasant thoughts. You have to learn to recognize and work with them.
Yes, and i'm a Vajrayanist and i'm taught to work with the world's energies, and i have been provided with a tool box as well from the Buddha up through enlightened teachers of my Vajrayana lineage to my teacher.
I too incline my mind to inspiring themes during practice, but they are yidam practices where i supplicate my teacher and the Buddha and great teachers of the past and receive their blessings. I never do that and have never been told to do that when working with my mind in sham/vipas practice.
Yes, but someone had to teach us. Our chances of coming up with something like egolessness on our own would be nil. It took a Buddha to do that. There would be no journey without the teacher, teachings and practices. We take the journey on our own, but we are well provisioned if we do it right.
Whatever works for you, @Tsultrim, is fine with me. I'm just offering different techniques for those who may find them helpful in their practice, especially @ScottPen, since they seem to be in line with what his teacher was saying (or trying to say).
Yes but you're missing my point - deliberately or not.
I CBA arguing so _ /\ _
Yes @Jason, and summing up this discussion, i'm just saying that what his teacher and you are saying to @ScottPen and others imo and that of teachers i have had will retard their progress on the path for the reasons i have outlined and they shouldn't waste their time on them. Preventing that is important, and that's what works for me.
This is a form of samatha practice. By focussing on a pleasant or neutral object, the mind calms down and is made ready for the next step which you describe below.
For one who is at ease — his body calmed — the mind becomes concentrated. When the mind of one who is at ease — his body calmed — becomes concentrated, then concentration as a factor for awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.
Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there arises what is felt either as pleasure, pain, or neither pleasure nor pain. If, when touched by a feeling of pleasure, one does not relish it, welcome it, or remain fastened to it, then one's passion-obsession doesn't get obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of pain, one does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, beat one's breast or become distraught, then one's resistance obsession doesn't get obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, one discerns, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, & escape from that feeling, then one's ignorance-obsession doesn't get obsessed. That a person — through abandoning passion-obsession with regard to a feeling of pleasure, through abolishing resistance-obsession with regard to a feeling of pain, through uprooting ignorance-obsession with regard to a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, through abandoning ignorance and giving rise to clear knowing — would put an end to suffering & stress in the here & now: such a thing is possible.
"Dependent on the ear & sounds....
Please restate your point, and we'll discuss it if you like.
This is an excerpt @Jason from The Song of Lodro Thaye (Rain of Wisdom Text) apropos of our recent discussion about meditation. It explains how proper meditation should be done.
Lodro Thaye was a great Tibetan scholar. He was responsible for the Rime movement in 19th century Tibet and he was also an enlightened being.
There is no point in much talk,
But the beginner needs various things.
One should abandon either welcoming or sending off thoughts of past and future.
The instantaneous mind of nowness is the unfabricated innate nature.
In meditation there should be no trace of deliberateness
One should not stray for an instant in confusion,
Non wandering. non meditation, non fabrication are the point.
With freshness, looseness and clarity,
In the space of liberation, one is mindful, establishing proper watchfulness,
Always keeping the mind balanced between tight and relaxed,
One pacifies the accumulation of subtle, tangible, and gross thoughts.
Rest in the state of natural unfabricated mind.
Lots of ideas in here! So aside from my 24 hour meditation crisis which this forum helped me out of, I haven't yet had to contend with many painful thoughts while sitting. It's usually just a constant scatterbrain which I'm able to notice without letting anything take root. Sometimes I have to bring my attention back over and over, sometimes it's less so. I've actually forced myself, over the years, to experience stimuli which once bothered me in order to reduce its effect on me... However I think this may have spilled over into my ability to reckon with pain in general. I just don't notice that pain (emotional or physical) is effecting me until I'm being a real bastard to the people around me, seemingly for no reason. So my brain has a lot of stuff locked away that I haven't really felt in a while. I don't think I'll be doing any silent retreats yet.
@ScottPen - and this is a serious question - have you considered being referred to a psychotherapist, for some kind of professional support for the situation you find yourself in...?
@federica, I appreciate the suggestion and concern. I've met with a few therapists and spent a little time with 2. My only pathological diagnosis is Inattentive ADHD. I'm taking medication for this, which does help tremendously. The diagnosis and subsequent talk therapy have really helped to shed some light on why, untreated for my executive function disorder, I've had a very specific set of social and productivity difficulties. In a nutshell, I become engrossed in things that fascinate me - socially, artistically, intellectually, whatever - then my curiosity abates and I ghost it for something new. I'm very adept at becoming proficient at almost anything I try, but skill mastery has been elusive. Socially it's manifested in having zero long-term friends and a tendency towards self-absorption, defensiveness, and dishonesty.
I've always thought of myself as basically a nice person, though...I care about how people feel, I'm concerned for social injustice, and although I don't think that there's any sort of inherent ethical fairness in the universe, I still value the efforts that people put toward facilitating it between each other. But this attitude has never inspired the truly generous and open-hearted behavior that I have always respected in other people.
I've spent most of my adult life feeling very identified with the philosophy of existentialism, but I'm not enough of a self-starter to ride that train to anything positive.
So- with an accurate diagnosis, a supportive family, true responsibilities by way of a wife and 2 kids, and a desire to walk my talk and be proud of my actions, I've begun to explore the only spiritual path that ever made any sense to me. So here I am.
Honestly, actually - I think it really depends. People with complex PTSD or borderline, anxiety, or depression can experience very strong emotions and irritation can easily spill into rage, mild emotional pain can easily spill over into an intense feeling of heartache. For people struggling with mental illness, sometimes emotions are very heightened and can be very painful and overwhelming. While, we are buddhists, ultimately we follow the path to ease the suffering of ourselves and others. For some people, it can be very helpful to focus on the pleasant sensory experience to help soothe their emotional overwhelm, then they can refocus mindfully and practice acceptance with the unpleasant emotion or stimuli. I agree with your point that this is something practiced in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (and Dialectical Behavioural Therapy for people who struggle with 'intense' emotions) - refocusing on an external or positive stimuli is very beneficial for people and CBT is a very, very effective treatment for many common mental and emotional issues - it's not 'the path' but it has a lot of value to offer people, I believe. It's efficiency in helping people ease and overcome mental distortions and think more rationally (hello more wisdom) and ease emotional pain is backed by many, many studies.
So, I do agree that one should practice mindfulness but that if in order to get to mindfulness, one sometimes needs to apply a cool balm to soothe their present experience FIRST, then this may be right for that person. If you don't struggle with intense emotions, then maybe it is easier for you to focus without becoming overwhelmed and so you can just go straight to the mindfulness part...I don't believe there is a one-size fits all to the human condition (and human suffering), easing suffering and becoming actualised and becoming more effective, purposeful, and 'whole' human beings takes many forms. While I think this path is very much one of the most effective ones, I also don't think we should fall into the trap of thinking it will solve everything and close ourselves off from different paths, tools and techniques that can help our flourishing and ease distress.
Yes, in addition - rather than reacting to what you feel dharma and meditation practice SHOULD be - drop your preconceived notions and mindfully explore what does and does not work for you
- even if at first, it does not seem to fit your idea of the path.
@Kaydeekay, Thanks for providing your perspective.